Participation Requirement for TWL

[Jessup]

Limiting medals seems silly to me. Roster cap is enough. If you mailed us real ones made of silver and gold I'd understand limiting them but come on lol .. it is an e-medal and if a squad wins the title give it to all of them. Ultimatlely ,aren't we trying to build incentive to play this game by giving out medals? Having more medals I think is a good thing for trench wars and twl. Don't let twl be any more of a monopoly then it already is .. geez, it is already bad enough in that regards

[Welfare]

Allow TWDT title

Stuckup hitting it dead on!

[stuckup]

I know this isn't professional sports. But has anyone looked at what they do for rings? Here is an example;

EVERYONE on that team gets a Superbowl ring. No matter if they played at all during the season or played the whole entire season, they still get one. The backups, third stringers, 4th stringers, all of them.

It is a team effort. That means all of the players (52 players on the roster - active or not) are awarded with a ring. This just makes sense ethically because it wouldn't be fair for those who are a part of the team to not to get rings whether they played or not. Think about this. Remember Drew Bledsoe? He went down fairly early on in the season and didn't play for the remainder of the year. When Tom Brady took over as starting QB and led the Pats to a super bowl win, Bledsoe (despite his injury or lack of playing time) received a super bowl ring just like the rest of the team. He was given a ring because he was a part of the team. What kind of message are you sending players if they were not awarded with a ring and yet they are a part of the team (even if they didn't play in the super bowl)? It is favoritism and it has no place within the NFL.

[Engineers]

You obviously didn't read the poll or the first post.

I read both, and I didn't like either of the two options. I skimmed through most of the other people's points and find them valid, but if it's staff's decision to implement these that's fine. But like you said if you are pretty busy with the other stuff eg cheating, etc, let's just resolve this as soon as possible. I am appreciative of you guys though.

[Reaver]

why do so many people argue against this in the dumbest fashion.

If you don't care then don't post.

If this won't change or help anything, then why are you fighting against it--let the meaningless change be passed.

If there are more important things that need to be changed, talk about them in another thread.

If people screwed up in the past by giving TWL titles to everyone, that doesn't make it any more correct to continue to do so.

Water down the changes all you want, but a step in the right direction is needed. I'd still rather see a limit of TWL medals per squad (15 LD medals, 15 LJ, 20 LB) where a lot of the medals are auto assigned based on some merit/critera/stats and the remaining medals are assigned by the captain. Personally, if my team won LD but got rocked in LB and there were a few basers that stuck it out and did the best they could, I would give them the extra LD medals and that seems fair to me.

[Ephemeral]

...I have begun to read this, but it is 11 sections, so it may take me a couple days. However, there is already an issue I have with your rules. While they separate the offenses from the rules into a different category, there is nothing in the way of examples, precedent, or instruction regarding what kind of offenses would differentiate the Class level of offenses. Even if that is supposed to be the subjective/judge portion; judges rely heavily on legal precedent and legal guidelines for determining precise sentencing.

If there are specific rule changes that are highly significant; please tell me as I may miss a couple reading through 14 pages of rules.

This draft's only intent was to demonstrate how this type of solution MIGHT take form. I think I remember moding a few specific rules but I really was only trying to illustrate how the separation might be applied. For me the challenge at hand was to form a separation that maintained the integrity of the rules yet provided flexibility of handling the inevitable unique situations that will always occur. It was not an attempt to set new rules in place, only a model for one way that it might be done.
Don't burn your time reading them all, I'm sure you already understand.
eph

[Summa]

If a captain decides to add a person to their TWD/TWL roster because that player is active/good/friendly/whatever enough, then who are staff to say that person doesn't deserve credit for being on the squad? It's also important to realize you've already made if more difficult to get medals by lowering the roster limits, is it not enough to stop there?

As I said before, no I don't think roster limits are sufficient. And yes I believe, as the organization that runs the league; there exists a certain right from the league to state that a player who demonstrated no visible contribution of competitive play (no TWD matches played, no spectating of TWL games, no TWL matches played, etc) should not get credit for their squad winning in a competitive league.

2. Players listed at http://twl.trenchwars.net/?x=history are not the same as those listed in the arenas and those who got medals. Unless we're taking away medals from those who already got them, the lists on twl history should be synced with those who got medals (which i believe are the same of those in the ?go twld/j/b arenas.)

can't really bust my balls for something done in seasons I wasn't running it. but changing those names, to me, is less of a priority than finishing the rules, fixing LJ arenas, and making sure the bots are ready.

3. Can someone move my LD medal from the name Static Burn to the name Burnt? I'd like to have all my medals on the same name.

Idk, I don't specifically have the access to re-assign medals; but I could see about doing a 1-time thing where for 1 weekend if someone can demonstrate they are so and so and want to consolidate medals onto one name, we might be able to do that.

[Summa]

Eph, Burnt, Jones are right. Keep it the way it is. It's like fixing something that was pretty pointless in the first place.

You obviously didn't read the poll or the first post.

[Summa]

Having annual turnover does not preclude having a multi-year plan and priority lists. But I think there is something much more damaging at work underneath all of this and it actually has been eating away at TW for years. Leadership is about sorting through large, complex inputs and prioritizing them properly.

Yes, it does. I don't know if you've ever ran a league in this game before, but it is volunteer work which everyone hates you for and no one ever shows any appreciation for; and you basically do it alone (maybe 2 people help you out outside of hosting). In that sense it is hard to have leadership, priority lists, and consultations with those who came before/after you. Especially when most of what you get out of doing it is negatives as is demonstrated by this thread (which although it has a positive poll result is full of people showing hatred).

I do believe that there is value in defining what it takes to receive a medal but it important to keep it very ‘broad brush’ and simple;

And I am trying to do it in very broad strokes now aren't I? I do not believe roster limits are sufficient at this point. My view is quite simple: TWL is a competitive league. To earn credit you must compete in some facet. I am trying to paint compete in as broad of terms as possible. Not showing up at all and never playing, to me cannot be considered competing AT ALL. If you can give me a reason that a player should get competitive credit for doing the negation of competing, I will be shocked.

My first thread about changing the organization of TWL rules was in 2006 and I am pretty sure that I followed up each year after that. I know for sure that in the third week of June 2011 I submitted a draft in this forum for consideration that reflected the organizational changes that could be made. Here is a copy of that 2011 draft.
The issue is simply this, the rules blend both the ‘law’ itself and the ‘punishment’.

I have begun to read this, but it is 11 sections, so it may take me a couple days. However, there is already an issue I have with your rules. While they separate the offenses from the rules into a different category, there is nothing in the way of examples, precedent, or instruction regarding what kind of offenses would differentiate the Class level of offenses. Even if that is supposed to be the subjective/judge portion; judges rely heavily on legal precedent and legal guidelines for determining precise sentencing.

If there are specific rule changes that are highly significant; please tell me as I may miss a couple reading through 14 pages of rules.

[Engineers]

Eph, Burnt, Jones are right. Keep it the way it is. It's like fixing something that was pretty pointless in the first place.

[schope]

I really see no idea in changing this anymore, it should've been done years ago, now the 'harm' has already been done. Just let it go

agreed

[Jones]

ps. i still love you guys tho

[Jones]

basically this whole medal requirement thing is another disguised attempt at having a roster cap which we already have. the idea behind a roster cap is so that everyone is not on the same 2-3 squads but it doesnt change anything. it just pisses people off. pandora has 44 lines of twlj players, penetrate has 53 starters for twlb and sweet has over 7 good twld players and these "requirements", "restrictions", whatever aint gonna fix that. it has always been like this and it always will be.

[Jones]

also, according to the history page vys is on fierce's twld roster even though the newbie quit the squad mid-season because they lost a few games. what else... idotddot is on sk8s twlj champ roster and they are runner up in twld and this guy never ever played a single game in the entire season in any of these leagues yet the wbs who made it to final didnt even get a twlj recognition. you are basically destroying a system that wasn't that flawed to begin with. everyone knows people like falk or cremation never did anything for sk8/thunder in twlj and they are on every list because you know why the captain of that squad put them on the twl roster. nobody gives a shit if these guys never contributed anything they were still apart of that squad. nobody cares that eelam or marge has more twld titles than vys will ever get because they were playing lj with sweet and fierce and they really deserve being on that list.

basically, you are trying to fix something meaningless and by doing so you have made it worse. no one on sweets twld benchers are gonna want to join paladen to get playingtime because most of these guys have played twdd with us for months and seasons and they dont give a fuck about playingtime as long as they can play with some cool sweet guys.

here's what you are gonna do. fuck medals, use A1 in twl arenas and put a big dash between starters (in all leagues (playoffs if you wanna)) and the rest of the twl roster. it is up to me as a captain to decide who makes it on my squads twl roster anyway. so basically fuck you for making my internet friends subspace life unpleasant with ridiculously idiotic rules that serve no other purpose than to jam a cactus in every captains anus.