Who wants to get rid of roster lock for tWL???

[Distaste]

Ty

Thanks awe...donno how i'd live without ya .....All ur posts come right after mine lolz.

[Cig Smoke]

Face ur rite that is wrong...what we gotta do is think of a way that the rosterlock can be implied so those better squads dont do that and taht squadhopers dont hop...but the fact still remains squadhoppers are all around and jump even when they cant play the season they still jump to better squads...and the squad that they jumped from if enough do it (camisade)/(cripples) those squads are hurt..which in returns hurts the loyal ppl to them squads...maybe we acn figure out a way that those dying squads get special privledges or something..like they can ionly recruit ppl that arent in TWL squads or something...i find its bad to reward squadhoppers w/ better squads...but i also find it unfitting to punish a loyal person w/ a squad that cant field 8 bc of the squadhopper

[Luckily Yours]

gerbz ... u cant have an automated system to do this .... because there are people who have other people playing in the same computer as them and they had to tell that to PUSHER in the beginning of the season ..... if an automated bot was checking for doublesquadders it would check these guys as well ....

that would mean uor computer could only have one user .... i dont know about u but some people only have one computer for the whole house

[sTuPiD-gErBiL]

Originally posted by Luckily Yours
gerbz ... u cant have an automated system to do this .... because there are people who have other people playing in the same computer as them and they had to tell that to PUSHER in the beginning of the season ..... if an automated bot was checking for doublesquadders it would check these guys as well ....

that would mean uor computer could only have one user .... i dont know about u but some people only have one computer for the whole house

we'd need an experienced bot programmer to answer this question, but i think if everything else we've suggested is possible, then flagging protected names should be an easy matter. i know there's already ways to banproof certain usernames without actually giving them staff powers. the same logic could probably be applied to the bot. but i'm definitely not the right person to ask about that. hopefully myth or sphonk (or whoever else does bots) is reading this thread.

[Bosshawk]

to be honest, i think you guys are over complicating this


i think the easiest way to resolve it is a simple delay

1 game played for anyone that was not on a TWL roster
3 games for anyone that was on a TWL roster (or make it more, maybe 4-5 games...)


and i said games, rather then weeks, so that delays or reschedules arent manipulated of course

that resolves the issues of squads being able to fill a roster from non-twl squads if they have an exodus for some reason...

also sitting out 3-5 weeks may be a little bit of a deterrent for someone who wants to hop...

if you have it at 4-5 weeks, then if someone hops by week 5 or 6 they could still be eligible for playoffs.....but not really a factor in getting to the playoffs

this isnt my suggestion, im just re-iterating someone else's but this really seems like the easiest one to implement that doesnt overly punish, and still allows squads to rebound from a crash

[Luckily Yours]

bosshawk has a nice idea

[bloodzombie]

But that brings us back to epi's point.

If this was the system that we were using, and I wanted to change squads mid-season, I'd quit my squad, then start a new name. it might be caught, but it probably woudln't especially if a lot of people were switching squads.

[Facetious]

I think a delay is a pretty good idea. Maybe set it at 3 weeks for a new recruit, 5-6 weeks for a former TWL member, and anyone that has switched squads more than once doesn't get to play.

Another interesting thought would be to cap the number of players squads can recruit that have squadhopped from other TWL squads, and have them be active for the season.

[Facetious]

Originally posted by bloodzombie
But that brings us back to epi's point.

If this was the system that we were using, and I wanted to change squads mid-season, I'd quit my squad, then start a new name. it might be caught, but it probably woudln't especially if a lot of people were switching squads.

Don't you think it would be pretty damn obvious? I mean, people could squadhop from, Solstice to Supremacy to Faded like that, and nobody would really notice that much, since those squads tend to have members that nobody has heard of, but the truth of the matter is, the rosters on the squads that have made the playoffs, save for perhaps Egyptian, are all made up of players that I've seen playing for years now. If Evasion decided to leave Melee and join another squad, how in the hell would he pull that off? He'd have to pretend to quit Subspace, and create a new name, let's say, Mushroom Tattoo, and then join the new squad. You really think a guy as good has him with some random new alias on Pallies wouldn't attract some attention? "Who the hell is Mushroom Tattoo?" they would say. And then mods could run an ip check. And then everyone would get punished.

[Epinephrine]

Originally posted by Luckily Yours
it works on premier , i dont know how they do it , but it works , they all know each others there tho and when some1 changes names it is noticeable who it is ...

just ask how they enforce it

As I've played in Premier League forever, and Pro League since before Season 1 when it was a pyramid league, I can tell you that they have experimented with a lot of different ways to do the roster lock.

The first few seasons there were no locks, and this created the situation where in the last round you'd have squads getting super stacked with players, while others were disbanding cause all their good players left (and they weren't making the playoffs or had little chance anyway).

Later they added the one round eligability rule, and that created a situation where people would just hop squads a week earlier (a round before the last round) and the same problems arose.

A few seasons ago they did something crazy which was to enforce a roster lock starting after round 1. What this eventually did was force a lot of squads to become extremely uncompetitive. As you only need 4 players to play a game in Pro League, most squads didn't drop out, but only showed 3-4 people to each game creating a joke situation.

The roster lock for round 5 in TWL was a comprimise for this season. The 3-4 round ineligability rule sounds interesting though, but wouldn't that really suck for people who join say right after round 1 and they miss half the season? And if you only start enforcing that rule after say round 5, then basically you can still have the situation where if you had Cripples for instance, they still would of noshowed to round 6 because none of their new guys would be eligable yet, and for the next few rounds they'd still have the same no show or uncompetitive problems until their new guys became eligable.

3-4 round ineligability periods and taking out the roster lock is no solution to squads which fall apart. Having a squad led by good captains, and players who don't jump ship is the way to protect such things from happening. If your squad is falling apart, no amount of rule changes will change that.

-Epi

[Epinephrine]

Originally posted by sTuPiD-gErBiL
well, i'm not too adept at programming.... but given the current accomplishments i've seen you guys pull off as far as bots integrating with website data, i don't see why it wouldn't be possible to make an automated system that handles these issues.

Very simple. All of these types of things must go through the sysops (PriitK or DoCk>). There is absolutely no way, 0% chance of them ever giving powers like that to squad captains.

DoCk> wouldn't allow me to hire player refs who'd only have bot powers and only in TWL arenas so that we could have more games going on at the same time, so I don't see how giving tremendous powers such as this would be possible. As well, tremendous powers such as these are well protected and aren't even fully available for us TWL ops to handle.

-Epi

[Epinephrine]

Originally posted by Cig Smoke
... squads left and rite but the fact remains squads like Camisade and even value sorta could be revived and (camisade) could still be in TWL if the roster lock wasnt there...

I don't think anything would of saved Cami. One of their players joined staff breaking the Cami "no staff rule" thus having their captain axe that fellow, and then having most of the squad leave right after.

-Epi

[Epinephrine]

Originally posted by bloodzombie
But that brings us back to epi's point.

If this was the system that we were using, and I wanted to change squads mid-season, I'd quit my squad, then start a new name. it might be caught, but it probably woudln't especially if a lot of people were switching squads.

Aye. The idea about rules is to figure out every single way someone can abuse a system while being realistic to needs of people and being realistic about how it can be enforced.

Obviously it is impossible to create rules that are perfect right away. But abuse should be kept in mind. Most of the systems proposed here have very little thought given to abuse even if they might be more "fair" for other people. Remember that if something can be abused, it will be and in the end that will end up hurting the honest people while rewarding the abusers.

-Epi

[Facetious]

Yeah, I'd agree that there aren't going to be any rules that help out squads with shitty leadership and unloyal players. I think the roster lock rules are good though, just for the purposes of discouraging squadhopping, which is just plain detrimental to the league, in my opinion. However, considering a lot of squad situations aren't stable, and not everyone can get onto Elusive, shortening the roster lock up for players that get caught in bad squad situations would be nice, say, for the players on Camisade.

[sTuPiD-gErBiL]

Originally posted by Epinephrine
Very simple. All of these types of things must go through the sysops (PriitK or DoCk>). There is absolutely no way, 0% chance of them ever giving powers like that to squad captains.

DoCk> wouldn't allow me to hire player refs who'd only have bot powers and only in TWL arenas so that we could have more games going on at the same time, so I don't see how giving tremendous powers such as this would be possible. As well, tremendous powers such as these are well protected and aren't even fully available for us TWL ops to handle.

-Epi

nononono.... you misunderstand. i'm not asking for a full list of a player's aliases to be given to any captain who wants it. i'm just asking if the bot/website could check on its own and then either accept or reject the player add request. no information would be given to the captain except if the player in question is eligible or not. that protects player privacy as well as crushes the potential for double-squadding almost completely.

hypothetical situation: SSJSUPERDUPERSAIYEN3884577 decides to join Elusive. Epinephrine goes to a Roster-Bot (or website) and tries to add SSJSUPERDUPERSAIYEN3884577 to Elusive's roster. the bot immediately does the proper stuff or whatever to find out if SSJSUPERDUPERSAIYEN3884577 has an alias on another roster... and let's say the bot discovers SSJSUPERDUPERSAIYEN3884577 actually uses the name bloodzombie and is registered to Pallies. the bot won't actually tell Epinephrine who the player is or what squad he's on... instead the bot will simply say "Add request denied: Player ineligible".