New Proposal for Leagues Setup

[Randedl]

yeah okay, i get that idea, if you make it a 12 week league you'd prolly be playing around the same number of different squads as we do now, with a few repeats for fun/competition.

i just think it's a really radical idea, and something like that will always have a couple problems to be worked out

[Randedl]

btw, what is the necessity for this change. for the most part, the system we have now has worked, it might just need some tweeks, why "should" the system be changed?

[Verthanthi]

It didn't work rand, that's why. There wouldn't be nearly this outpouring of ideas if people didn't think it needed fixing.

[Escalate]

the current system hasnt tragically failed, but there is tons of room for improvement. from what i hear, several squads over the seasons have been screwed out of postseason play by the inequities that exist in the current system which include: 1. uneven conference strengths. 2. Cross conference play where teams competing for the same playoff spots dont play the same opponents. 3. Situations where a replacement squad which is much stronger or weaker than the squad it replaces can come in mid-season and wreck the even playing field...etc...

this system addresses all 3 of the above problems, and even if it didnt, its better, because it carries tons of other benefits. the current system doesnt even guarantee that all of the best squads play a single game against eachother....to give one example. and theres plenty more positives that i wont repeat again but are posted above. it takes a little courage to try something new, but if this happens, people will like it.

[Epinephrine]

I fail to see why TWL should completely change the way it's set up.

Would this system instantly be better? Would it have absolutely no unresolved issues? Does it work for TW?

Why would we change to a completely different and untested (at least for TW) system that could potentially have a lot of problems (which may be unique to TW) and have a full "test" season basically to find out the bugs, when we can use the current system?

Also from what I see of this system, it would change the way that TWL has operated, and it will change the traditions of TWL and so on.

Finally a system should be simple enough so that anyone can understand it. This system is really complicated and I think there will be a lot of problems. And yes I'm saying this after having to explain a 8-team playoff 1 round elimination system to countless people who just didn't get it.

While new ideas are always great, I would say by no means was this season a complete failure. I see no reason why the entire league structure should be changed. If anything, there should be lively debate about how to improve the current system (if necessary) instead of creating completely new systems which the majority will never agree to or like.

-Epi

[RiP]

Originally posted by Epinephrine
I fail to see why TWL should completely change the way it's set up.

Would this system instantly be better? Would it have absolutely no unresolved issues? Does it work for TW?

Why would we change to a completely different and untested (at least for TW) system that could potentially have a lot of problems (which may be unique to TW) and have a full "test" season basically to find out the bugs, when we can use the current system?

Also from what I see of this system, it would change the way that TWL has operated, and it will change the traditions of TWL and so on.

Finally a system should be simple enough so that anyone can understand it. This system is really complicated and I think there will be a lot of problems. And yes I'm saying this after having to explain a 8-team playoff 1 round elimination system to countless people who just didn't get it.

While new ideas are always great, I would say by no means was this season a complete failure. I see no reason why the entire league structure should be changed. If anything, there should be lively debate about how to improve the current system (if necessary) instead of creating completely new systems which the majority will never agree to or like.

-Epi

Epi is wise

[Facetious]

I just don't think there's anywhere to go with the current system, Epi.

[BLeeN]

If you guys really want these huge changes (totally new system), prepare for some flaws/bugs and stop whining that stuff don't work. Since most of the stuff that don't work, we are already working on it or already know about it. =P

[Cig Smoke]

there is if ppl would try to think of ways of improving the current system instead of coming up w/l a whole new system..which i saw what 2-3 new plans already?...the current system isnt bad just needs a few tweeks here and there...if u get stuck in a good conference (WR) and dont make playoff's it happens...look at the NBA..the west is clearly stronger then the east in all ways like seed #7 in west owns seed #1 in east alot...u gotta work harder if ur in the harder conference + u still got cross conference games which equal out them other guys havta constantly playing there conference...just needs some work (roster lock,playoff) and such adn it'll be fine

[Randedl]

Originally posted by Escalate
1. uneven conference strengths. 2. Cross conference play where teams competing for the same playoff spots dont play the same opponents. 3. Situations where a replacement squad which is much stronger or weaker than the squad it replaces can come in mid-season and wreck the even playing field...etc...

1. don't blame uneven conferences as a failure of the system. every squad knew comming into this season that they had to get in the top 4 in their conference to make the playoffs. squads like whiterabbits knew they had to beat out 5 of the squads in their conference to make the playoffs, they didn't, they aren't there, that is their fault.

2. i see more of a problem of uneven scheduals from your system where people are changing tiers every 5 weeks than with playing 3 pre-planned games that try to provide even competition to every squad in twl.

3. maybe instead, when a squad drops out of twl, the 10 squads it had in their schedual automatically get a forfeit win if they show 5 to the game. the replacement squad plays for fun/competition, the scores are saved, but in the standings it goes in as a 50-20 win no matter what.


it's alot easier to patch up weak aspects of a system rather than remake the system.

[BLeeN]

True, we are kinda glad we didn't made it, since we were playing top notch anymore =P

[Fruitang]

Takes the emphasis off a 1 time lucky game if the squads get to play each other in the next round. Nice Idea. I would certainly prefer a tier system to a conference system because I like the idea of promotions and relegations, it gives the not so good teams something to think about.

EDIT: I just thought of something and I didn't want to make a new post over it. Players in squads who dissolve are not allowed to join any other TWL team or if they're in a TWD team that makes it to TWL they'll be ineligible. So if a squadowner wanted to dissolve his squad it could potentially make more opportunities for the squad-members to stick together and keep the squad under new leadership. Kind of like the Immolate to Inferno scenario. Feedback on that?

EDIT again: Actually, perhaps ineligiblility is a bit too harsh. But say squad-captains get a 5 week ineligibility period, asisstants 4 weeks and members 3 weeks. Of course with this idea comes the eligibility period in general, I prefer to see this back rather than a roster lock mid-way through the season. Perhaps have an eligbility period of 2 weeks and then the roster lock 1 or 2 weeks before the play-offs. That way, those who were to have joined before this years roster lock in Week 5 would become eligible in Week 7, with a Roster lock in Week 8 or 9 it wouldn't make much difference but to allow squads who were perhaps fading towards the end have the opportunity to recruit players, yes i'm aware that if they're dying then the new members still wouldn't be eligible. But, meh.

[Luckily Yours]

i prefer the relegation/promotion shit as well , just like the good old slowbob days except , with this league coordinators things would move a whole lot faster so it would be hunger together with the will to eat... pure gold

[Verthanthi]

Originally posted by Randedl
1. don't blame uneven conferences as a failure of the system. every squad knew comming into this season that they had to get in the top 4 in their conference to make the playoffs. squads like whiterabbits knew they had to beat out 5 of the squads in their conference to make the playoffs, they didn't, they aren't there, that is their fault.

Think of it this way, all the 5 good squads KNOW that they had to show up everyweek. Maybe they all do, every week they play each other, it's close as hell. When they play the shitty teams in their conference it's a fucking blowout. Still, ONE team can't go. They played just a tinnny bit worse than the rest. Meanwhile, in the other conference everybody fucking blows. No one is showing up 8 to a game. Nobody deserves to be in the league, nevermind the playoffs... yet 4 of them get to go. See why I think there's a problem? Yeah, maybe wr doesn't deserve to be there. Bleen's right, we aren't playing anywhere near the level of a TWL squad. But hey, just because it isn't a problem RIGHT NOW doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.


Epi: There clearly were problems. Outside TWLB, I know people were complaining about the LD ladders, too. Yes, everything comes with it's own flaws, but sometimes it's less. Maybe we should draw up a list of pros and cons? I think there needs to be a change, even if it isn't as drastic as Escalate's suggestion.

[Bosshawk]

as much as it is a very nice system, epi has a valid point about keeping things simple

i think that setting a schedule, and sticking to it no matter what would make things simpler in some regards

going from week 1-10 with no delays (other then unforseen like bot issue or server issues) would let captains plan accordingly


if you are a captain and have weeks in the schedule that have holidays in them, deal with, and plan accordingly

i think that cross-conference playoffs eliminates the strong/weak division issue although to truly eliminate the equality would be to have either 1 division, or simply to have all teams play all teams, which of course would make for a longer season (which shouldnt really be a problem either....)

i mean whats the big deal of a season lasting 15 weeks instead of 10? i think most players in TWL are committed to playing alot, and if they cant make certain matches its up to the captains to have a roster that can compensate for members not playing certain weeks


i dont think that TWL is nearly as flawed as people like to make it out to be, but that people want stability in the system

the following things i think are critical:

- locking schedules so that people just simply deal with holidays or guys not being able to play on certain weeks

- cross-conference playoffs so that you have the cream of the crop rising to the top during the playoffs

change the roster lock so to a waiting period, whether its 2 or 3 weeks (games) of ineligibility instead of a deadlock: this still allows people to leave and a squad to pick up others....but as a footnote to that i would still say anyone joining after week 7 games would not be eligible for playoffs

- some system for captains to check members of their roster for double squadding, whether its an email address that is monitored and checked by staff....or a bot if thats feasible or simply that if someone tries to register for TWD with a nic that has a matching ip address/machine id as another registered NIC that it does not let the new nic sign up (plus of course the ability to check alias's would help as well)

anyways.... i didnt post this to take away from the above system, it looks like he put a lot of work into it and it is a good system, im just kind of pointing out like epi says that a radical change may not fix all the issues, just create other ones....

food for thought