Let's get the best squads into TWL

[Galleleo]

I think inc had the record with 8 bds and a jd in 1 day

[PaulOakenfold]

No, I remember on RB, I put together 9 bds on a Sunday, with 2 practice games... one being against A-S... I can't remember who the other one was against, but I remember both squads couldn't participate at first because they had un-registered members that weren't being registered that week because of bot synchronization.

ALl I can say..... is that was a long day.

[WorstPlayerEver]

Originally posted by Project
(aka I didn't say you weren't basing when you refuse our challenge, you just choose to play shit opponents -go base world team- or worthless games -intersquad-)

Whats wrong with wanting to have a little fun with your squad? Inter-squad basing somtimes is kind of fun..

Also, I recall 2 of the last three times you guys came in in the last 5 mins of our little fun games and demanded that we stop playing our fun little game because you guys wanted to BD that instant, when all you had to do was wait 5 minutes for us to finish up.

[Ivan]

HCK-Limited = Me

<3 geekbot, WPE, Heavensent, Gerry, Killer Parakeet, Cops, Tarriskat, Toby_Home, Atreides, USS, SpaceHiker, Lemonfrog_Returns, ckpoon, Everlastin, TheSerpentMage, Dfender, and Poo-Kapuchin.

HCK-Limited 4 life

[gerry]

Originally posted by geekbot
Those spots should be filled with the best possible squads- not some new squad (like HCK last year) that plays a few easy matches and gets in TWL. These squads make TWL less competitive and cause delays and scheduling problems when they dissolve.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Paladen quit TWL?

That gave HCK the next highest position in the TWDB ladder.

It's not that they played easy squads to get in. They played "big" squads as well. I know because I was in HcK-Limited.

[apt]

geek is just crying or something, I dunno. I guess he wants RB to get more points since they BD 8 times a day and at least 2/8 times they beat a top 5 squad. So if those squads have 1300 + pts they will shoot to the top. Stop trying to fix something thats not broken. Thx.

[Cig Smoke]

He is rite apt, things are broken. He has a point, why would some squad want to BD pallies (example) when they could BD elenya who has more points then pallies? Its quite stupid. I dunno about raising them all so high or whatnot, but its a problem. After TWD resets squads are gonna be stingy on who they accept/challenge. Also some playoff squads do mess around alot, but some dont.

[PaulOakenfold]

Originally posted by gerry
They played "big" squads as well. I know because I was in HcK-Limited.

After the fact that they were given the chance to join TWLB after Paladen quit. Before, they just played easy 1000 rating squads and got up into the rankings, look at their beginning matches.

[Bosshawk]

u guys should really stop being so immature and self-centered

geek isnt talking about this so "his squad" can have more points


hes addressing a very important issue, that was recognized by people last TWD that bottom feeding squads can move squads into TWL that arent neccessarily the best available squad

the whole idea of giving those squads more points to start is not to make his squad look better, its so that theres motivation for newer squads to still play them instead of just bottom feeding all the time

less risk, more reward

he made a valid point about last season
the only reason HCK got into TWBD was because they bottomfed squads and refused to play the top squads

i forget exactly but it was 27 days before they got in to TWBD that they refused to play the #2 team in TWBD which was War Angels at the time.... they knew what they were doing and did it deliberately becuase there was no one else in TWBD that was a challenge, so it was impossible to catch them


if people could get past their own little whining, and look at whats best for the leagues in general, then this should be addressed becuase it really hurt TWL last season by funnelling in teams that folded right away that never should have been there period


a good idea geek


nice to see people with ideas to try to actually help the league

[geekbot]

Thanks Boss. I'm glad I got a chance to play TWL6 with HCK if only for one game. But I knew when I joined that I was getting a "free pass" to TWL. I didn't deserve to be in it, and I don't think HCK was ready for it either. WA and BR did deserve it (look at their records- BR was given 0-4 for starting in week 5, and they still finished 3-7). But HCK was able to pass up those two teams. Not saying anything bad about Ivan, if the ladder allows a team to do that, why not take advantage? We all wanted to be in TWL. It just means the ladder could be improved.

If the ladder is improved, Pallies will get to BD more squads (besides just RB), which I think is a good thing. RB is not afraid to lose to Pallies, just look our rec against Pallies. We lost every single match (20-30 games) since we reformed in August before finally winning 2 games recently. Up to now, we have never beaten Pallies, yet we keep on accepting and challenging. Look for yourself. Scroll down to TWD Basing and see who Pallies plays and beats more than any other squad.

But, wait, RB is rated 1183 and Pallies is 1146. Is that right? No. Pallies is obviously better. Starting Pallies and TWL playoff squads at 1300 or 1400 will straighten out the ladder where it obviously can be at the TWD reset.

Why did I choose 1300 or 1400? Because the top squads in TWDD/TWJD/TWBD are Grapevine (1611), Shriek (1553), and Mambo (1342). So 1400-1600 seems to be the top of the ladder. TWL playoff squads belong at the top of the ladder so that's where they should start after a reset.

Another solution if people don't like mine is to take TWL squads out of the ladder (so their wins/losses don't affect the ladder). This was talked about when TWD first started. Personally, I think it's nice to have them in the ladder b/c it keeps them active, there's more squads to play against, and we can see how we're doing against them. But if they're in the ladder and wins/losses affect the ratings, then their ratings matter (not to them but to the ladder) and the ratings should be more correct.

[apt]

You guys are looking at this the right way, TWD isn't about the non TWL teams trying to beat prior TWL playoff teams. It's about fighting it out with the other teams who are in the same boat as you. This isn't about whats "right" or "wrong", it's a strategy as to how to climb to the top. Either way no matter how you play it, the teams that deserve to be in TWL, WILL be in TWL. Nothing needs to be changed.

[Stabwound]

I think every squad should have to requalify. Squads change enough over the course of the entire year that it takes for TWL to restart these days. Make 'em all requalify.

[Project]

no one is 'scared' to play pallies. whenever i've been on with enough to base, people who have 8 accept our challenges (with the exception of aforementioned squads in previous posts). so your whole thing about people not wanting to play top tier squads is moot.

[Cig Smoke]

Apt, not all squads who deserve to make it will. There are squads who are good enuff, yet they play anyone and they might lose a few. Where as an active squad who plays against EZ ppl all day and all night, racking up 20+ TWD games a day will probably make TWL b4 the other squad.

[JacKieChan>]

There could be a better way

There have been several suggestions to try to make the twd ladder better. I think Geekbot might be on to something with his idea.


I think what some people are missing is that there are problems with the current ladder system. Some squads do bottom feed and don't play the squads who are already qualified for TWL and the better squads who are not already qualified for TWL. WHY? Because they want to first get into TWL and then worry about getting good enough to be there later. The squads who play everyone can end up a lot lower on the ladder.

The thinking here is that the TWL squads who are already qualified should be some of the best sqauds in TW b/c they were the playoff sqauds from the previous season. That being so, the squads who are just trying to qualify to be in TWL this season should not be able to beat them very easily. Therefore, TWL squads are avoided to different degrees.


There's 3 basic ideas/ways to the change ladder.

1. Leave the squads who are qualified for TWL as able to play matches in TWD, but no points are effected against non-twl squads.

This way twl squads can still play in twd but if they are just goofing around they cannot feed twd squads points...nor can it negatively effect twd squads who play them.

So twl squads can still have fun basing in twd, and twd squads can see if they stand up to the twl squads.

Afterall, shouldn't TWD be competition against the squads who are not in TWL so that the best in TWD enter TWL?


2. Geekbots idea that twl qualified squads should start off with a score of 1200-1400 at the reset.

As we all know the points you can gain/loose in any match is 50. The points changed from winning/loosing the match is based off of the difference in the ranking of the squads. A higher likelyhood for winning is given to the higher ranked squad and a percentage of the points assigned for a win/loss.

I didn't do the calc (I programmed a calcuator to do the calcs) but wouldn't it be something very minimal like the 1400 ranked squad would only win like 5 points if they won, and a 1000 point ranked squad likewise only loose 5 points if they lost. But the 1000 squad would win 45 points if they won.

This would not penalize squads much who played TWL squads often and lost, but would reward them greatly if they won. The thinking here is that the TWL squads who are already qualified should be some of the best sqauds in TW b/c they were the playoff sqauds from the previous season. That being so, the squads who are just trying to qualify to be in TWL this season should not be able to beat them very easily.

A squad should not get the same W/L points from beating a playoff TWL squad as JOE-NOOBLET 123 squad.

Geekbot's solution has many good points. The only possible drawback is that a TWL squad could F-around and feed some twd squad(s) a lot of points. But after ABOUT nine matches of strait losses the twl squad would be down to about 1000 from 1400. TWL squads do try new things and do goof around somewhat in TWD, but at the same time they still don't like to loose that much.


3. Have all squads start at 1000 point at the reset, but have the games calulated with a weighted average

This is actually very similar to what geekbot suggested. It's just done slightly different.
With this it could be set up so that a squads TWD rating is weighted with matches against other twd squads would have a weighted average of being like 85% and TWL squads 15% of your total score.

And vice-versa for TWL squads. Their score would be calcualted with a weighted average score being 85% twl squads, and 15% non-twl squads.

This way everything does count, but your peers have the greatest impact on your score.


Or we could leave everything the same...however I think we've seen soem problems which need to be adjusted with this current system used by the twd ladder.