Let's get the best squads into TWL

[Zyclon]

you still need to have 50/100% same roster as it was last season?

[Cig Smoke]

YA zyclon 50% of roster from last season i believ.

And Geek is rite, the best solution would to take the TWL playoff teams OFF the ladder, let them play TWD, but not get or subtract rating fromsomeone. It is very unfair to play Diso in TWBD, and only get 10 points, when i can play Avalonian and get 20. The TWL playoff teams for the most part just play any game they can, they are practicing for TWL, letting ppl who normaly wouldnt play, play. Which is what i'd do to, but they should do that w/o affecting the outcome of TWD. Geek has a good idea goin, i'd sugest following up on it or something.

[Bosshawk]

until you find a way to force teams to play someone you will never guarantee the best squads in TWL

ie: this reset has been over a month already?

rank in TWBD: #4 Puma

time puma has played a top 15 TWBD team? probably 0

so if you think after a month it will settle down and be proper your nuts

same problem last season

the most active teams will make it, and the ones that play newbie or trade off jd/DD/bd wins will make it

the only way to fix the ladder is a much larger range of points on a win/loss so that if a team consistently plays only newb teams or teams ranked way below them they start to gain barely any points for them

[Adeon]

True Boss, but this is only a real problem in the BD ladder, because fewer games are played, and fewer points seperate the high from the low. Thus, "high-rated" squads (i.e. PUMA @ 1200) can play "low-rated", or even new squads (@ 1000), and get decent points for winning against them. Whereas in the other two ladders, you have "high-rated" squads in the same ranked area @ 1500+, and "low-rated" squads @ 800-1000. So, like you say, they barely get any points for them.

Anyway, my favorite idea here is the "weighted average" one, because I don't think playing against a TWL squad should have absolutely no reward or risk, but it also shouldn't greatly affect the outcome of the TWD. So that seems the best way to go about it, although such a system would probably be a bizzitch to implement.

[Cig Smoke]

Agreed, the DD/JD ladders are probably gonna get most squads deserving of a spot. The BD ladder wont, like adeon said there isnt as many games played and when they are played u get a fair amount of points for beating someone fairly new or "ez" so to say.

[Facetious]

Originally posted by Project
no one is 'scared' to play pallies. whenever i've been on with enough to base, people who have 8 accept our challenges (with the exception of aforementioned squads in previous posts). so your whole thing about people not wanting to play top tier squads is moot.

Yeah, but it's still not fair to them. Granted, in some respects, using our squad as an example isn't really appropriate, because we play pretty much whoever is on whenever we want, and some people (me) aren't as good as some other people (blood, myth, hellz, etc, etc). I'm not neccessarily sure that beating us with triceratops as terr should be worth that many points just because we're really good with all our starters on.

[JacKieChan>]

Exactly

Originally posted by Bosshawk

ie: this reset has been over a month already?

rank in TWBD: #4 Puma

time puma has played a top 15 TWBD team? probably 0

so if you think after a month it will settle down and be proper your nuts

same problem last season

the most active teams will make it, and the ones that play newbie or trade off jd/DD/bd wins will make it

the only way to fix the ladder is a much larger range of points on a win/loss so that if a team consistently plays only newb teams or teams ranked way below them they start to gain barely any points for them

Puma proves our point exactly. Here's their recent BD's

TWD Basing

Feb 07 win vs. Avalonian
Feb 07 win vs. Elenya
Feb 07 win vs. Forever
Feb 06 win vs. {+NTF+}
Feb 02 win vs. British Squad
Jan 30 win vs. Incendo
Jan 30 win vs. Lost Angels
Jan 28 win vs. Vamos
Jan 26 win vs. Vamos
Jan 24 win vs. Shadow Of Trench
Jan 24 win vs. GANGSTERS!
Jan 24 win vs. GANGSTERS!
Jan 11 loss vs. Melee
Jan 11 win vs. impede
Jan 06 win vs. Shiznits
Nov 28 win vs. G2_Forces
Nov 21 win vs. Perculate
Nov 14 loss vs. Elenya
Nov 08 win vs. Saiyan Revolution
Nov 08 win vs. Azure Twilight
Nov 08 win vs. Azure Twilight
Nov 02 win vs. Saiyan Revolution
Nov 01 win vs. Saiyan Revolution
Oct 31 win vs. Saiyan Revolution
Oct 27 loss vs. Warpath
Oct 25 loss vs. BUNNIES!!!
Oct 11 win vs. Pursuance
Oct 05 win vs. BUNNIES!!!
Oct 04 win vs. sscgods
Sep 27 loss vs. War Angels
Sep 07 loss vs. ReJeCtEd BaSeRs
Sep 06 win vs. Cygnet

Proving a squad can very eazily wiggle their way to the top by laming the ladder.

[cundor]

PUMA really is the numba one basing squad

[Dabram]

Maybe instead the organisers of the next TWL should assign 10 experienced players to each league and let them make a list of who they think should be in the twlb/j/d. And on the hand of their lists we'll see who qualifies for twlb/j/d. I'm sure if you pick the right players to do this none of the squads that only play against newbiesquads will make it instead of a squad that only plays against good squads and occasionally win one.

[Cig Smoke]

Ya face, we probably shouldnt keep using pallies but its a hot squad to use

And as u can see by PUMA's playlist. They are now #4 or were #4 last nite in TWBD. They will make TWLB simply by playing as u can see the squads listed above. They have 6 losses, as u can see those are clearly the best 6 they played. This has to be fixed. Why would i want to go face Pallies, or disoblige in a BD game, wheni can face PUMA, or Avalonian and get just as many points if not more. Thats common knowledge. As i said and others b4 last season ended. TWD ISNT a legit way to pick all TWL teams. Sure if u only got 4-5 teams qualifying like last season it works, but when u got 10+ u got problems. Im sure ther is another way to do it, not suer if bram's way would work bc all decisions could be biased towards a squad if 1 person likes them or not. Maybe after this season, dont make ALL squads requalify, or all non-playoff squads. Just make the bottom 3-4 in each league or something. That way u'll still have most of the ppl who deserve in each league, bc obviously squads like PUMA, if they make TWLB wont last the whole season, and if they do they wont get higher then 2nd last in there division. Meaning they'd havta requalify.

[Chewy]

If you really want to make it fair, you shouldn't have playoff squads. And you shouldn't have a ladder either, but you should have a competition. Just like every other sport in the world. There are too many ways to "cheat" in the ladder. If I startup a newbie squad and only play squads we can win, duh, not hard eh. Everybody should fight everybody.
Competition, that's the way to do it. Scheduled games. You can have a ladder just on the side of all these things, but to qualify for the ultimate trenchwars league, you should have a competition to qualify.
European people: take a look at soccer. You have a yearly competition there. You do good, and you qualify for the champions league. That's the only fair way. Nuf said.

[Cig Smoke]

Chewy has a point. Im not all for scheduling games for tWD, BUT maybe after the month for TWD. Take the top 5ish teams in each TWD, they get into TWL. Then have a tournament or something on the weekend for the next 5ish or so spots. U know have top 5 in, and place # 6-15 or 6-? have a tourny to get in. That way u'd probably eliminate most of the squads who dont diserve. Again it'd take longer to do for TWL, but it'd probably get the best teams in.

[geekbot]

Where are the "playoff teams" to get into TWL going to come from? TWD ladder that you're getting rid of? Or are all 200 squads on the list going to duke it out in a gigantic playoff. That's a funny thought.

The ladder isn't broken. I don't know of "many ways" of cheating the ladder. If you look at basing, the rankings are mostly correct with a few exceptions.

The few exceptions I see on the basing ladder are:
1. Squads that play an easier schedule to inflate their ranking.
2. Squads like Pallies and Disoblige that are too low b/c they play only the best squads or they haven't played enough games. They have both been playing more recently and are starting to climb but not fast enough for the ladder to totally make sense.

1. Mambo 1316
2. Spastic 1296
3. PUMA 1219
4. ReJeCtEd BaSeRs 1203
5. Incuria 1190
6. Disoblige 1189
7. Anti-Scrub 1172
8. Pallies 1141
9. Grapevine 1141
10. Cripples 1125
11. Elenya 1091
12. Melee 1077

The only other problem I see is that a brand new squad only has to climb about 100 points to get into the top 10. The top teams need a little more "lift and separate", if you know what I mean.

If it helps you can think of my idea as a Wonderbra for TWD.

[Cig Smoke]

I meant, keep the ladder, reset TWD, go for the month we were gonna to choose TWL squads. Then pick out the top 5 or so squads they make TWL. Them + the auto-ins. Then u'll have a big playoff/tourny type thing for the rest. That way u'll have squads that deserve to be in instead of squads like PUMA. Sure they'll get into the tourny, but most likely wont get through to TWL. There are squads like Juice, pirates and a bunch more that deserve and would be more compatition then PUMA/elenya and such, but we (pirates) play ppl like RB,melee and such, so naturualy we are gonna lose some, but we are still better then PUMA. I dont know how many squads uwanna give a chance at a tourny type thing, but 5 out of them top 12 are already in TWL.

[lunch3]

I agree about giving more points to twl playoff squads to help nudge others into playing them and rewarding those squads that already do. Ladder doesn't really lie either. Only squads I think that play ez squads, and never hard squads, are Elenya/Crips/Puma. Pirates and Juice are definitely much better than them. But there seems to be plenty of room anyways, think follows is best 16 squads that should be in twl in no particular order.

Mambo
Spastic
ReJeCtEd BaSeRs
Incuria
dISOBLIGE
mELEE
pALLIES
gRAPEVINE
aNTI-sCRUB
Juice
Sk8
Pirates
Paladen
LEGO
Syndicate
-Final-

.....what do u know....even though Elenya/Crips/Puma suck more than above squads there are still better I think than any other twbd squad not shown for most part so they kindof deserve to play and playing cheap will get them in.