TSL Season 2 Improvements Currently In The Works

[Vys]

Have it so the last people who typed !playing are the ones on the bench.
Vys for president

[Rab]

It should always bench Jessup.
Partly for the quality of the games.
Partly because it's funny.

[IxaDor]

Have it so the last people who typed !playing are the ones on the bench.
Vys for president

Exactly. Vys nails it again! TLS so far means to me "The Shit League" but if things change, it could be "The Superior League"? lol... I don't like that mysterious ratings play role in getting into a match nor do I care for the allotted time slots that seem to piss off both Euro's and Americans alike. I do appreciate the work Claus/Qan has put into this league, I am not putting them down but it still needs lots of work in my opinion to become something that excites me as much as TWD did.

-IxaDor

[zidane]

no one gives a fk if tsl excites some pub noobie

[qan]

Re: timeslots, a lot of it has to do with staffing. We could try to have more pick-up games where TSL is hosted randomly on off-days. Or alternatively, if there are staff around, run 1 round of games in the euro-friendly slot whenever possible. Also worth noting, there are still basically no timeslots that work for Oceania/Asia. Due to logistics, TSL's just not going to be completely fair no matter what happens. We can try to make it more fair, but that's about it.

As for the matchmaking algorithm, the way it's written is definitely not fair. It could preference those who sign up first, as vys suggested, or maybe take the total number of games played and preference those who have played fewer. Keep in mind that there's also the !backfill command, which will add you last if you'd like to give someone else a chance to play.

no one gives a fk if tsl excites some pub noobie

sigh


Here's a bit of an update on automation progress. I've finished the ratings calculations. We'll need to test it soon. Right now it doesn't do any website output ... it's going to be absolutely barebones because I really dislike PHP/web work. Expect to see a web table with no interaction of any kind. But, it will display $ value automatically, automating the most time-consuming part of TSL so far. You will also be able to see value after the end of each match.

One small change that will mostly help newer players is that earning a low score in D/J will still give you some $ value. A bit less demoralizing trying to grind up and improve.

Your name will also need to be TWD-enabled to play from now on. Aliasing to try and game matchmaking will continue to be punished severely.

2, 3 and 4 mentioned in the OP are stretch goals, unlikely to make it in before the start of the season. But might emerge mid-season.

[Major Crisis]

Re: timeslots, a lot of it has to do with staffing. We could try to have more pick-up games where TSL is hosted randomly on off-days. Or alternatively, if there are staff around, run 1 round of games in the euro-friendly slot whenever possible. Also worth noting, there are still basically no timeslots that work for Oceania/Asia. Due to logistics, TSL's just not going to be completely fair no matter what happens. We can try to make it more fair, but that's about it.

As for the matchmaking algorithm, the way it's written is definitely not fair. It could preference those who sign up first, as vys suggested, or maybe take the total number of games played and preference those who have played fewer. Keep in mind that there's also the !backfill command, which will add you last if you'd like to give someone else a chance to play.

sigh


Here's a bit of an update on automation progress. I've finished the ratings calculations. We'll need to test it soon. Right now it doesn't do any website output ... it's going to be absolutely barebones because I really dislike PHP/web work. Expect to see a web table with no interaction of any kind. But, it will display $ value automatically, automating the most time-consuming part of TSL so far. You will also be able to see value after the end of each match.

One small change that will mostly help newer players is that earning a low score in D/J will still give you some $ value. A bit less demoralizing trying to grind up and improve.

Your name will also need to be TWD-enabled to play from now on. Aliasing to try and game matchmaking will continue to be punished severely.

2, 3 and 4 mentioned in the OP are stretch goals, unlikely to make it in before the start of the season. But might emerge mid-season.

Dont think the hosting was really a problem last season.. More the lack of people getting scorebox on forum..
I ran most euro days by myself and often there was another staffer around to add lines as well. Didnt have that much trouble later in the season with ppl disappearing or lagging while !playing that needed subs.. And deep in our heart we all know who are the good players and who aint. Its all about keeping the zone alive and have some fun together..

[Rab]

Happy to chip in with web work if needed.

[qan]

Dont think the hosting was really a problem last season.. More the lack of people getting scorebox on forum.. I ran most euro days by myself and often there was another staffer around to add lines as well. Didnt have that much trouble later in the season with ppl disappearing or lagging while !playing that needed subs..

Still sounds like it was a bit thin then. At least the scorebox issue shouldn't be a problem with this coming season. (Though it's nice to have them posted, as it works as a manual backup to the database.)

Anyone see a reason why trying to run some pick-up games during more Euro times would do any harm? If there are people around to play and hosts willing to cover it, why not play, right? If we have more scheduled time slots where hosts have to be there to cover it, that's where we might run into trouble -- people show up and expect it to be hosted, and nobody's around.

Happy to chip in with web work if needed.

Nice one. If it's OK with you, I might do just absolutely bare-bones output then, to make sure it hooks up OK with the bot and database. And then hand it off to you.

Can give you DB schemas and table structures if you want to expand beyond just showing value and so on. I've sort of retrofitted TSL to use the TWD tables, so that technically all of the TWD-style stats will be available for each game, and we just need to mine it out by adapting existng TWD pages. Not too difficult overall. Stuff like Squad would obviously need to be removed but it could be a quick hack without much serious effort required.



Just need some hosts to run some test TSL games now, to see if the bot changes are working.

[Rab]

Good plan

[Leland]

good
u

[ogron]

I'm 100% against any change that results in reduced activity, even if it would make the TSL All-Stars slightly more accurate. Aside from Spider, where only 5 top-tier players participated, the majority of the Finals slots went to players generally considered the best players in that ship.

I think pretty much every top tier player who played over 20 games made it, while the majority of players with 40-50-60-70 games who shouldn't qualify didn't, so the system is already doing a pretty good job.

Would taking averages and measuring consistency improve the accuracy?

Yes.

Would it do more damage overall to activity and toxicity?

Definitely.

Let's also keep in mind everyone in TSLD and TSLJ qualified with over 10 KPG and excellent overall averages, with the exception of Zidane in warbird. So players at the top are already consistent and posting good averages.

Calculating averages would hurt activity. Players would sit on their averages and worry about it dropping if they play. It would increase toxicity and anger about what teammates you get, and any negative result. When every single game counts, it means every bad team and poor result damage your chances, which is not a good look when the bots aren't perfect at randomizing teams. Having some games not matter to your success is important in keeping players motivated and happy.

Someone suggested adding +5$ bonus to each of your first 30 games.

It's a pretty decent idea that I'm not against, that could help players who don't have as many games, without hurting activity too much, or resorting to averages.

Keep in mind we're expanding Euro timeslots to help our friends in the Western Hemisphere, which should help them complete more games.

The primary goal of TSL is activity, not an All-Star list that perfectly represents the best players.

Please try to keep that in mind when making suggestions. We already know Dreamwin is an elite javelin -- we don't need a TSLJ All-Star selection to figure that out.

[olde]

Can you sock cocks just start TSL already? There is literally no other reason to log on. I predict TWDT being a huge forfeit fest...

[GLYDE123]

Can you sock cocks just start TSL already? There is literally no other reason to log on. I predict TWDT being a huge forfeit fest...

Yes let's start the TSL pre-season now. Can't wait to drop some European scum thinking they will make playoffs with more timeslots.

[Jessup]

I'll be hosting TSL "preseason" games when I can starting today until the true season begins. I'll not be the only one doing this but everyone keep an eye out for Zoners. We need to start testing out the bots and new system/changes that are being implemented this season. I'm happy to say it looks like base prefered adding system is being nixed to either first to do !play or averaging the number of games played and giving those who have less games preferances. Keep your eyes peeled!!

[Vys]

I'm 100% against any change that results in reduced activity, even if it would make the TSL All-Stars slightly more accurate. Aside from Spider, where only 5 top-tier players participated, the majority of the Finals slots went to players generally considered the best players in that ship.

I think pretty much every top tier player who played over 20 games made it, while the majority of players with 40-50-60-70 games who shouldn't qualify didn't, so the system is already doing a pretty good job.

Would taking averages and measuring consistency improve the accuracy?

Yes.

Would it do more damage overall to activity and toxicity?

Definitely.

Let's also keep in mind everyone in TSLD and TSLJ qualified with over 10 KPG and excellent overall averages, with the exception of Zidane in warbird. So players at the top are already consistent and posting good averages.

Calculating averages would hurt activity. Players would sit on their averages and worry about it dropping if they play. It would increase toxicity and anger about what teammates you get, and any negative result. When every single game counts, it means every bad team and poor result damage your chances, which is not a good look when the bots aren't perfect at randomizing teams. Having some games not matter to your success is important in keeping players motivated and happy.

Someone suggested adding +5$ bonus to each of your first 30 games.

It's a pretty decent idea that I'm not against, that could help players who don't have as many games, without hurting activity too much, or resorting to averages.

Keep in mind we're expanding Euro timeslots to help our friends in the Western Hemisphere, which should help them complete more games.

The primary goal of TSL is activity, not an All-Star list that perfectly represents the best players.

Please try to keep that in mind when making suggestions. We already know Dreamwin is an elite javelin -- we don't need a TSLJ All-Star selection to figure that out.

What about my proposed time slots, bonus rounds. As we need to keep this league fair for all players across the world. Keeping it how it was last season in favour to you guys across the pond.