Week 3 Appeals

[kthx]

the sorta was there to make it a smartass remark :P You know to accentuate the point.

[Black Mage]

I would but I sorta have my first baby due in about two weeks so I don't want to be the person in charge who takes the fallout for emofucks disaster #2.

That's what we call a legitimate reason haha. I like the sorta in there. Is it sorta your first or is it sorta a baby.

turban, be mature or gtfo.

Black mage.
No, bots malfunctioning was not the same as unannounced schedule change. This week was worse. The first week when bots died, all the players were still here on time for their matches. It didn't affect the gameplay one bit, except maybe for the fact that base was played to 10min instead of 15. If your answer is really gonna be "It was just a small schedule change, no big deal." then i guess we have no choice but to accept it. However you will be ignoring the legitimate reasons asking for replays. You will also be not even attempting to fix a problem the hosts caused. It's not about the results of this week, it's about what is fair and should be done in this case. I've presented my arguments for appeal/replays. If you're going to reject it, either give a reason or admit it was screw up but you won't grant replays. Sticking to your notion of that the captains should "suck it up" is disrespectiful to all the caps players that tried to show but got screwed over by the last minute change.

I'm sure there will be some whining one way or another, but it'll pass within a few days, as long as your decision is not a simple "too bad, suck it up".

I have not spoken to Humid since I got back. Do not confuse me (a helper) with Humid (the op and decision maker). I was not here this week and have only pieced together what happened. But what Humid says (that he made the decision about the schedule change because he thought he would have more hosts that way) sounds like an appropriate and reasonable action to take in a tough situation. This appeal is basically that an ideal game (featuring the team's best players who planned to log on only for that game) was not played. However, it seems like everyone knew going into this weekend (due to the US holiday) that ideal conditions would not be reached. It is up to Humid to decide if the severity of the imperfection in this case merits a replay or other action.

Humid has said that no javelin games would be replayed, but that under the right conditions he would consider the other leagues. "There may be some freak circumstantial evidence that could generate a replay for DTB or DTD matches". So I would suggest the best course of action would be to state clearly and honestly why your matches should be replayed. I see some of that in the previous posts, but perhaps you could list your specific reasons (Players XY and Z showed at the proper times but didn't get to play, we had to play player x in the other 2 ships, etc.) in a single post for Humid's convenience (and to make a stronger argument). I think that is the best chance of getting a replay.

I don't mean to be disrespectful to any players who showed up to play but were not able to do so, but sometimes leaders make decisions that do not benefit some constituents. This is generally unavoidable and often the toughest part of the job. Note that there is a difference between something being unfortunate and outright injustice. In a perfect world, perhaps those two concepts would be synonymous and any unideal situation would be avoided or (in this case) lead to a game being replayed, but this season has unfortunately used up it's cushion time and we live in a real (and problem-filled) world. Perhaps you can make some suggestions in addition to your arguments about how a replay could work without losing a week and barring in mind the World Cup finals that will take place at 2:30pm EST next Sunday. This is a player-run zone, do your part :turned:

[kthx]

I agree this season has been a bunch of unfortunate incidents one after another, not many of which are Humid's fault. The bots dying two weeks in a row, followed by Emofucks having a leadership disaster (seriously, every member of the squad who doesn't have a legitimate reason not to step up and be cap and try to fix things should be ashamed), and then two weeks in a row of impossible scheduling. Add into that the growing pains of using the new free agent system and it has been a lot of turmoil. It's true that Humid has been playing less (and caring less about this league), and so a few issues that could have been a bit smoother ended up a bit rougher, but I think the league will be fine once we get past next week's WC matches.

I'm sorry Draft if you were screwed this weekend, but Humid just tried to make the best of a bad situation. Your team is pretty good and I have a feeling you'll do fine in the coming weeks. As far as I know the league is up against the wall and there is no time to have another pre-season week or anything like that. There's also a difference between a small schedule change and bots malfunctioning. You got to send people out to play, even if the circumstances weren't perfectly fair or you didn't have everyone you hoped to send out.

I would but I sorta have my first baby due in about two weeks so I don't want to be the person in charge who takes the fallout for emofucks disaster #2.

[AnidaLife]

turban, be mature or gtfo.

Black mage.
No, bots malfunctioning was not the same as unannounced schedule change. This week was worse. The first week when bots died, all the players were still here on time for their matches. It didn't affect the gameplay one bit, except maybe for the fact that base was played to 10min instead of 15. If your answer is really gonna be "It was just a small schedule change, no big deal." then i guess we have no choice but to accept it. However you will be ignoring the legitimate reasons asking for replays. You will also be not even attempting to fix a problem the hosts caused. It's not about the results of this week, it's about what is fair and should be done in this case. I've presented my arguments for appeal/replays. If you're going to reject it, either give a reason or admit it was screw up but you won't grant replays. Sticking to your notion of that the captains should "suck it up" is disrespectiful to all the caps players that tried to show but got screwed over by the last minute change.

I'm sure there will be some whining one way or another, but it'll pass within a few days, as long as your decision is not a simple "too bad, suck it up".

[Black Mage]

I agree this season has been a bunch of unfortunate incidents one after another, not many of which are Humid's fault. The bots dying two weeks in a row, followed by Emofucks having a leadership disaster (seriously, every member of the squad who doesn't have a legitimate reason not to step up and be cap and try to fix things should be ashamed), and then two weeks in a row of impossible scheduling. Add into that the growing pains of using the new free agent system and it has been a lot of turmoil. It's true that Humid has been playing less (and caring less about this league), and so a few issues that could have been a bit smoother ended up a bit rougher, but I think the league will be fine once we get past next week's WC matches.

I'm sorry Draft if you were screwed this weekend, but Humid just tried to make the best of a bad situation. Your team is pretty good and I have a feeling you'll do fine in the coming weeks. As far as I know the league is up against the wall and there is no time to have another pre-season week or anything like that. There's also a difference between a small schedule change and bots malfunctioning. You got to send people out to play, even if the circumstances weren't perfectly fair or you didn't have everyone you hoped to send out.

[Turban]

humid has done a fine job, stop whining like a bunch of kids. sure, he has not had the time (and maybe even motivation) that he had last season, but as far as i can tell there has been no major screw ups this season. i would rather not do any replays, as frankly i don't see any point on delaying this league by another week.

stop whining and just enjoy the league. ty.

if u haf a issue vs a tissue, dun vs humid 4 u being a bad losir

[Draft]

and thanks anidalife. i couldn't of said that without being rude, maybe they'll listen to you. :wub:

[Draft]

I think games will count until humid tells us otherwise... I don't see how it could be any other way, and I certainly don't see how you are the one in charge telling us the games aren't going to count... Just cause you picked a bad team with a bad show-up doesn't mean the rest of us have to suffer...

are you stupid or just euro? never said i was in charge, i just want to know whos opinions humid is taking to change up the game schedule last day

edit: last minute*
edit2: last second*

Why this was done: At the start of the games (this was slightly my fault for getting into a BD that ended 8 mins b4 the league was set to begin) I was being pm'd by around 8 people asking a variety of things listing from: "omg we don't have enough to play basing" to "omg did you do my free agent transfer" to "omg where and how do i host this". Amidst that chaos, the we don't have enough's rung out to me more than others. I then asked who my hosts were for DTB, and found absolute silence (this means that only Tres and I were there). I, personally, enjoy playing the 1 match of competitive play that I get a week; and I also know that most of my hosts tend to show up for the 3 est games rather than the two (usually a half hour late). If DTD were to run, then I had 4 hosts in line (2 hosts play basing and chose, rightfully, to play rather than host). So I took a risk, adjusted the times of the two in an attempt to get more hosts so that I didn't have to host 2 or 3 matches. Unfortunately that risk amounted to nothing more than generating these appeals. I ended up hosting 3 matches while tres hosted one. That is why it occurred as it did, not because my team needed time for more players (we had 12 @ our DTD match).

finally something i wanted to see, for the fun of it;

"omg we don't have enough to play basing" - jaa
"omg did you do my free agent transfer" - dreamwin
"omg where and how do i host this" - chips? <ER>

am i accurate? fucking idiots

As of now, I see no reason to replay any matches. What was done was done out of necessity in my opinion. I will say this though, there may be some freak circumstantial evidence that could generate a replay for DTB or DTD matches, however DTJ matches will in no circumstance be replayed.

As for you caps, I cannot replay every single week because of the slightest minutia which adjusts a match 22 minutes earlier than expected and thus rules out 1 player that you would have had. I am on a fixed schedule because of TWL.

no replays, agreed, make them preseason matches again like when my team won?

grant them 10 * per victory, sounds fair when u did it the first time, no difference in doing it again

In regards to some questions about my capabilities this year, I would say most of them are correct. I, due to ph quitting the game at least temporarily, was told that I must be prepared to run TWL; which I have been putting significant more effort and time into. This year as opposed to the last 2, I was asked to run this against my own intentions, rather than willingly running it. Thus, my availability and my desire has suffered. You can ask jaa and blackmage (probably the only two people to have ever cared about this league as much as I have), I have been slacking hardcore this year. If anyone feels my performance has been insufficient in any regards, feel free to ask tres to take over my role. He is more than capable and significantly available than I am. Sorry for my failures this season to all the new caps.

tres, take over now

[AnidaLife]

Humid, I agree with the notion that the jav games should have no reason to be replayed. I can't speak for all squads, but at least on ruby, Draft did mention games may be played back to back, so get on early. However, the switch between basing and wb games without any prior notice should be enough to warrant a replay.

I'll just give one example. I know for a fact on ruby, Regen came on at 2:30 for his wb game, 30 min earlier than what it should have been, only to realize it was already done. Your 92% accuracy stat and 22 min logic are faulty. The accuracy cannot be correct due to the fact that you can't keep track of people who come on to play only one league. They would come on, realize the game was already played, rage for 10 min and log off. You also didn't take into account the players who should have played in javs but couldn't because they were forced to play wb and base.

And it wasn't just 22min. Basing games take anywhere from 15-30 min plus 10min of lineup setup plus 5 min of host setup. That's let's say an average of 37.5minutes. If the planned wb game was supposed to start right after the basing game, the earliest it would begin on average is 2:38pm. And let's be realistic, that would never happen. We have to wait for all the other basing games to finish as well before starting the next round. Therefore the time difference should be one reason for an appeal.

The basing game might have been less affected by the time switch, however there are still arguments for a replay. I for one was driving back home that day after the long weekend, and I put off a 6+ hour drive with a friend because I felt obligated to show up for my team. I planned to be able to get it all done at latest 2:45, and was thus incredibly distracted during our basing game. This might not be enough grounds for an appeal, but there are other factors as well. There are possibilities that squads had to use their basers/javs in the wb game, and therefore had to decide whether to use them again in base or not. This is also not counting the select few who absolutely had to leave before the basing game started.

All that said, most of the stuff that have happened are not totally your fault. However, you shouldn't let your lack of commitment get in the way of these decisions. If there are sufficient grounds for appeal, you should grant it regardless of how many replays there needs to be done. It's only fair that way. Just because the first few weeks of this league didn't run as smoothly doesn't mean the rest won't. Just play it out week by week.

[tragiK]

while the lengthy post doesn't explicitly say, i'll take it as humid's retirement from twdt. tres has been good about staying on top of things and i support him taking over.

also, shameless plug for myself - i'll be more than happy to run things. i think it's clear i care about twdt way too much and would probably be a top5operator. what's that you say? i'm not staff? oh, good thing i sent in my application two weeks ago.

let's put it this way - everyone has shit going on in their life outside this game (except for ease), and it's no wonder that staff members go in and out of activity. nobody is blaming them, it just sucks for those that count on their 100% attention, especially with something like twdt where all the decisions fall on one guy. high turnover rates are an inevitable characteristic of staff these days, and perhaps the only remedy to a continuously falling population of a decade-old game. and i say, what's wrong with that?

btw, jaa for staff.

[PH]

don't worry so much about twl, trust me when i say that as long as you make the right decisions initially (let the right number of squads in, don't let any squad in if paky dude is capping it, etc.) it will damn near run itself

and sorry for skipping out but there are just too many cancer cells and not enough chemo

you really should come to irc btw, pm me or ask stab or gen for details

[Summa]

What I have read so far

The only legitimate appeal that I have read is from Thrill stating that I didn't make the change of times more officially stated; however that is splitting hairs. Much like most of what has been stated. 22 minutes (since the DTD games started 8 minutes late) is jack shit for time, and those who turned up for DTD were the same people who turned up for DTB and DTJ with 92% accuracy (I counted) so don't pull that "my wbs came late bullshit on me", when I got pm's stating that people would appeal I took counteractive measures to prove all of you wrong.

Why this was done: At the start of the games (this was slightly my fault for getting into a BD that ended 8 mins b4 the league was set to begin) I was being pm'd by around 8 people asking a variety of things listing from: "omg we don't have enough to play basing" to "omg did you do my free agent transfer" to "omg where and how do i host this". Amidst that chaos, the we don't have enough's rung out to me more than others. I then asked who my hosts were for DTB, and found absolute silence (this means that only Tres and I were there). I, personally, enjoy playing the 1 match of competitive play that I get a week; and I also know that most of my hosts tend to show up for the 3 est games rather than the two (usually a half hour late). If DTD were to run, then I had 4 hosts in line (2 hosts play basing and chose, rightfully, to play rather than host). So I took a risk, adjusted the times of the two in an attempt to get more hosts so that I didn't have to host 2 or 3 matches. Unfortunately that risk amounted to nothing more than generating these appeals. I ended up hosting 3 matches while tres hosted one. That is why it occurred as it did, not because my team needed time for more players (we had 12 @ our DTD match).

As of now, I see no reason to replay any matches. What was done was done out of necessity in my opinion. I will say this though, there may be some freak circumstantial evidence that could generate a replay for DTB or DTD matches, however DTJ matches will in no circumstance be replayed.

As for you caps, I cannot replay every single week because of the slightest minutia which adjusts a match 22 minutes earlier than expected and thus rules out 1 player that you would have had. I am on a fixed schedule because of TWL.

In regards to some questions about my capabilities this year, I would say most of them are correct. I, due to ph quitting the game at least temporarily, was told that I must be prepared to run TWL; which I have been putting significant more effort and time into. This year as opposed to the last 2, I was asked to run this against my own intentions, rather than willingly running it. Thus, my availability and my desire has suffered. You can ask jaa and blackmage (probably the only two people to have ever cared about this league as much as I have), I have been slacking hardcore this year. If anyone feels my performance has been insufficient in any regards, feel free to ask tres to take over my role. He is more than capable and significantly available than I am. Sorry for my failures this season to all the new caps.

[tragiK]

yea, the rest of you terrible caps unlike pj who took into account holidays and WC finals when drafting his team...

[PjOtTeR]

ya i'm def mad, prob mad as you when you lost to me last last sunday pos euro

anyway, games arent' going to count until humid tells us why he switched the games/who suggested the switch.

I think games will count until humid tells us otherwise... I don't see how it could be any other way, and I certainly don't see how you are the one in charge telling us the games aren't going to count... Just cause you picked a bad team with a bad show-up doesn't mean the rest of us have to suffer...

[PaulOakenfold]

went over 3 years without this game

no one actually believes that