This trade tho...

[MHz]

So, last night Zidane & Best were traded for Porkjet, M_M God and Flew by Mean Gene & Ogron, and passed by Turban. I'm not interested in joining the chorus of bien pensant criticism that is constantly leveled at Ogron & TWDT, but I think this stinks for many reasons.

1) Mean Gene's jav & wb lines went from being title contenders to poop. This is annoying for me, I want to face good opponents.

2) The trade itself was rushed through between the TWDTJ & TWDTB games, meaning other caps didn't have a chance to voice concern. The traded players were then switched on the team sheets immediately and went on to play for their new teams in TWDTB. Players hopping around teams between games is not fair for opponent captains or the players being traded (I know Maketso, who vs'd Ogron in base, was pissed, and I know Porkjet was pissed that he was traded so cack-handedly.) Trades should have to be completed by 12am on Friday for players to be eligible - I thought this was a rule?

3) The trade is clearly arithmetically flawed -

Zidane - 10* Jav || Porkjet - 9* Base
Zidane - 9* Base || M_M God - 9* Base
Best - 10* WB || M_M God - 7* Jav
Best - 9* Jav || Flew - 8* WB
Best - 7* Base

(45/50) || (33/40)

Ogron not only gains in jav and wb - but gains clutch, title winning players. In base, if we assume Zid=Pork, he loses M_M God in spid (9*)- but gains Best (7*).

Across the leagues, Ogron is left -*2 in base, +12* in jav and +2* in wb. That is a net-improvement to his starting lines of 12*.

4) The trade passed because Zid & Best were being difficult for Mean Gene.

4:turban> zid and best won't want to play for you, nor return.

In turban allowing the trade on these grounds, he validates the act of players rebelling against captains to force trades, which runs against the spirit of TWDT. Mean Gene sold cheap out of desperation without properly assessing his options, and Ogron was happy to oblige.

Reading now that Ogron is throwing in Tsunami & Reckful doesn't change the outcome of the trade at all. It's a good gesture, because Ogron knows he had the upper-hand, but it doesn't change a trade with 1st & 2nd round players involved.

Ogron should re-hash this with Mean Gene and offer him something commensurate with Zidane & Best. Maybe Jamal & Vys, or Pork,M_M,Vys, or something.

[Stayon]

Besides a rule or not and how it went..

Best / Zidane - M_M God, Porkjet, Flew, Tsunami, Reckful

1) Best > Flew in wb, Tsunami in jav
2) Best > Reckful in spider, loses to M_M God in spider, but if he cares he's an 8* spider easily. M_M was a doable loss.
3) With Best in wb, add Vys from FA. A team going 0-7 in wbs, can now snatch wins.
4) Zidane and Best make a 2 man jav combo, that will prevent the same team going 0-7 in javs also.
5) Gene already has 3 jav 8*s, himself, Cape and Healt. A sub is good in Tsunami, but Tsunami doesn't care or is active. A dead weight.
6) Gene already had 6, 8* or more basers, now he has one in excess with 7. 7+6 lineups mean you only need 6, 8*s or more.
7) Strategy wise, Gene ruins his chanses for a better seeding or even playoff fight.
8) Gene was a contender in all 3 leagues with his top lines. Now he only has a shot at base.
9) Yes, it's not his fault people refuse, but that doesn't justify trading 2 top players (who fill 5 spots, Best 3 and Zid 2) for 2 top basers, 1 decent wb, and 2 afks to the same team.
10) Base situation remains somewhat the same for both. Reckful "refuses to show", much like Tsunami will add a bit fat 0.
11) One team is now gonna qualify playoffs when they were very likely not too. Having a shot at finals is now possible in all 3.


Edit: On the spirit of TWDT like Mhz mentioned, I wanna add "I've worked hard to resolve and mediate differences between Tiny and Major Crisis, which are now solved." That line was on the now deleted Free Agency thread.

So..who's working hard to resolve the issue between Mean Gene...Best and Zidane? Shoot, shoot, bang bang.

[2pac]

So, last night Zidane & Best were traded for Porkjet, M_M God and Flew by Mean Gene & Ogron, and passed by Turban. I'm not interested in joining the chorus of bien pensant criticism that is constantly leveled at Ogron & TWDT, but I think this stinks for many reasons.

1) Mean Gene's jav & wb lines went from being title contenders to poop. This is annoying for me, I want to face good opponents.

2) The trade itself was rushed through between the TWDTJ & TWDTB games, meaning other caps didn't have a chance to voice concern. The traded players were then switched on the team sheets immediately and went on to play for their new teams in TWDTB. Players hopping around teams between games is not fair for opponent captains or the players being traded (I know Maketso, who vs'd Ogron in base, was pissed, and I know Porkjet was pissed that he was traded so cack-handedly.) Trades should have to be completed by 12am on Friday for players to be eligible - I thought this was a rule?

3) The trade is clearly arithmetically flawed -

Zidane - 10* Jav || Porkjet - 9* Base
Zidane - 9* Base || M_M God - 9* Base
Best - 10* WB || M_M God - 7* Jav
Best - 9* Jav || Flew - 8* WB
Best - 7* Base

(45/50) || (33/40)

Ogron not only gains in jav and wb - but gains clutch, title winning players. In base, if we assume Zid=Pork, he loses M_M God in spid (9*)- but gains Best (7*).

Across the leagues, Ogron is left -*2 in base, +12* in jav and +2* in wb. That is a net-improvement to his starting lines of 12*.

4) The trade passed because Zid & Best were being difficult for Mean Gene.

4:turban> zid and best won't want to play for you, nor return.

This validates the act of players rebelling against captains to force trades, which runs against the spirit of TWDT. Mean Gene sold cheap out of desperation without properly assessing his options, and Ogron was happy to oblige. Assessing this soberly, I think Zid+Best for Jamal, M_M+Vys would be closer to being fair.

Reading now that Ogron is throwing in Tsunami & Reckful doesn't change the outcome of the trade at all. It's a good gesture, because Ogron knows he had the upper-hand, but it doesn't change a trade with 1st & 2nd round players involved.

Ogron should re-hash this with Mean Gene and offer him something commensurate with Zidane & Best.

yo bitchclaus you done cheating, you already triple crowned same with zid and best, yall *****s done trying to make the same squad with the same players for twdt?

Get real bitchclaus and do whats best for business.

[Rab]

1. mean and zid argue
2. mean gets kicked from squad, zid gets traded in twdt
3. nothing to see here

[Crescent Seal]

oh good, i'am not the only person who feels that this trade was unfair and terribly managed. mhz and stayon mentioned all of the main points, but id like to add that tsunami and reckful wont even show to any games (one at most) rofl. doubt anything comes out of this though. joke league.

[Turban]

well, as everyone has already stated, this trade was not entirely fair and was only done as a desperation move which greatly benefited one team while hurting the other teams chances in two leagues.

my first suggestion was to simply ban the players from future competitions as a disciplinary measure for their lack of sportsmanship simply to show that the league doesn't revolve around them as it would have made them a great example to prevent future cases like this from popping up, but that proposal was poorly received by the captains as it would definitely have hurt the team of mean gene. thus, as that was not an option, and given the circumstances, both zidane and best needed to be traded away from their team. you could easily compare the situation to a similar scenario in the football (pardon me, soccer) transfer market where an unhappy player might get sold or loaned out for far under their market value.

i did mention that the trade was not entirely fair, and definitely favored ogron, but due to a lapse in judgement which was for a number of reasons, and simply wanting the league to run forward, the trade was processed. i'm not trying to justify the deal, it was not a good one by any means.

i would like to revert the trade for now, and give Ogron a second chance to give a proper offer that correctly reflects the market value of Zidane and/or Best. it was a noble gesture to add Tsunami and Reckful to the deal, but even with those two players the trade was still not fair enough.

i had spoken with Ogron and told him to talk with Mean Gene to come up with a solution that makes both happy, but looks like nothing happened on that front.

[Heaven]

yeah should renegotiate the trade without tossing in inactive tsunami/reckful.. jamal for zidane to start off.. 1st for 1st
also i don't think they shouldve been allowed to play immediately -- even if the trade was processed in the 20-30mins before TWDTB started.

[project dragon]

Dear M_M God,

Love,
Pork

[zidane]

This is what happens when people who shouldn't be captain are given cap. I don't respect or like mean gene at all, he tried to act like he was a big deal but he's not rated at all. Calls me a little bitch then asks me if I want to be traded lol. Clown. In terms of fair trade that's not possible unless commodo was trading ease. He still got good players and he's lucky considering how quick he was ready to blow his team up instead of admitting he was retarded

[Heaven]

In terms of fair trade that's not possible unless commodo was trading ease. He still got good players and he's lucky considering how quick he was ready to blow his team up instead of admitting he was retarded

It would have to push towards a 3 for 2 to make it an equivalent 'market value' trade

[Kings]

I agree that, to be fair, it should be a #1 n 2 pick for # 1 n 2 pick.

[Omega Red]

Horrible trade

whats the point having a draft league if players can simply refuse to play for a captain and muscle their way into a team with their friends?

you guys are setting precedent where players can simply not like their team/cap and just switch teams with their buttbuds following close behind


this is unfair for the team whos losing these players and second unfair to all the other captains who worked hard to plan their drafts

[Heaven]

Horrible trade

whats the point having a draft league if players can simply refuse to play for a captain and muscle their way into a team with their friends?

you guys are setting precedent where players can simply not like their team/cap and just switch teams with their buttbuds following close behind


this is unfair for the team whos losing these players and second unfair to all the other captains who worked hard to plan their drafts

I agree this was a very lopsided trade and isn't fair for other captains planing their draft however aslong as a fair trading takes place between the 2 teams then whatever, rather players play than just boycott league. However in this case mean gene lost any chance at TWDTJ and barely gained in TWDTB whereas Stannis benefits as he will make TWDTJ playoffs now while his TWDTB line remains just as strong. Ogron knew this and tossed in 2 inactive players in hopes to 'balance' the trade but i don't think it changed anything. Zidane is a 10* in TWDTJ and TWDTB for a reason and will carry teams and Best is very good at TWDTD and TWDTJ having highest(?) warbird score in TWL.

I'm not saying the fault should be placed on 1 person as there were 2 captains and a TWDT op involved however I feel like this trade was rushed -- for some reason allowing them to also play same day -- and i would hope this trade is renegotiated to something more fair to maintain the comptetiveness throughout multiple teams instead of having few powerhouses.

=)

[mean gene]

This is what happens when people who shouldn't be captain are given cap. I don't respect or like mean gene at all, he tried to act like he was a big deal but he's not rated at all. Calls me a little bitch then asks me if I want to be traded lol. Clown. In terms of fair trade that's not possible unless commodo was trading ease. He still got good players and he's lucky considering how quick he was ready to blow his team up instead of admitting he was retarded

LOL, I ACTED LIKE A BIG DEAL? that's news to me. Not once did you ask to get traded off and on top of that you even gave me ideas for the draft. Man, you really showed me you didn't like or respect me at all for sure. we could have avoided all this childish drama if you said something the second i drafted you.

but let me refresh my memory.. I was trying to be a fair and reasonable captain, unlike you ever were.. you already going to play two leagues, but clearly you are so fucking entitled because you won this and that.. i really don't give a fuck.. people like you just always wanting to make this fun league lame because we have to always add the 'winning' team!! who the fuck cares about winning, jesus christ. its so fucking sad how you say if you don't add me in this twdt game i'm gonna afk all season and axe you from my squad! man, im so mad i got axed!!~~~ you say you love this game so much but clearly you are just as self centered as most of the other 'vets' that care about playing every game over other people that wait patiently to get there chance to play atleast once. i wanna let others, especially the PURE WB'S, play a fucking game if it means benching myself and especially you, you scumbag. but hey man you keep acting the way you are, i'm sure it helps you sleep at night.

as far as this deal goes, meh. ogron never wanted to put in his 1st and 2nd round picks, that was pretty obvious. makes me wonder about certain things, like collusion.

i'm just here to have fun with my squad while spreading playtime around but those aren't real qualifications of a captain. acting selfish and putting people down, that's the only way to make this league fun!

but yea, you are a little bitch, zidane. i had a feeling this would happen but i figured you are somewhat mature to ya know... have some decency and let others play.

gg twdt 2016, two weeks in and this happens haha!

[zidane]

lol

it was your choice to trade, i didnt demand anything and best sure as fuck didnt (he played dtj 5 mins before you traded him)

i also want to let everyone know that claushouse had nothing to do with this. I was a piece of shit to mean gene and he couldn't handle it so he just decided to trade me right away. didn't even attempt to fix the problem or seem to care remotely. mean gene approached claus and tiny about trades and they both made offers. im not sure why mean gene thought he had to do it right away but trading top players is never easy, caps are usually loyal to their top picks. its shitty everyone dick rides claus when hes put serious effort into this league and this trade (which MG offered) was approved by a 3rd party.

mean gene improved his base line and is already in a position to make playoffs, so this might actually work out well for him.. while claus got jav/wb on a team with 0 javs/wbs when other teams have stacked lines (moreso jav as wb is a dead league)