Fun Fact - Nasty cheated to get their playoff spot (Official Appeal)

[skyforger]

I'm not answering this appeal yet in any possible manner, lets chew on this first.

-Nasty gained advantage by borrowing a 7-star player that apparently was so big advantage they lost in both occasions. (In both occasions opposing team captain agreed to this sub to allow 8vs8 game)
-Nasty gained advantage by borrowing a 6-star player that apparently was 7 in a javelin. This player ended up negging both games but with good carry they at least won their games.

-The people here discussing Cyclone and his value to TWDT or his team, are you entirely sure you are sober?

-Rules are very clear, anybody being informed or agreeing is not important according to the rules.

-Your argument that rules can be broken, if the advantage doesn't turn out to be noticeable, is asking for trouble. Get ready to get those boundaries tested in the future, and the precedent will be here.

-You don't exactly add value to teams in jav or wb most of the time, by your logic Power will be allowed to borrow in playoffs to not have to play you. Same for like about 1/3rd of the drafted players.

-Cyclone was added to the draft, he was the only player rated 5/5/5 on purpose. It is not an accident that slipped though the cracks. He was drafted on purpose on Nasty, it was not a last pick. In the game he did play, he did good, better than some 6-stars. There is absolutely no reason to punish him after allowing him to participate on same grounds as everyone, if he has not fucked up in the league in question.

[ronaldinho]

I'm convinced by the "within 24 hours" but honnestly this league is a joke, this cant be call "pro league", you can't imagine on the real subspace pro league (svs) a team who voluntarily bench his own player to have a better one from an other team, and it happens all seasons here. I don't want Cyclone, can I have Tiny ? This game is pure amateurism, the newbie zone of subspace, i'm still here because i can't make a single kill in svs.

[Rab]

General points which should be addressed before next season.
- This rule should be changed because it's weird, the restriction should be about the game type being played only.
- Rules should not exist if staff or bots can't enforce them at the time that they apply.
- I don't like the culture of relying on players to appeal. There shouldn't need to be any appeals.
- Validating lineups should be straightforward and therefore should be automated.

[ogron]

This is an open-and-shut case, you can find 100 instances going through forums of league operators consistently denying appeals that weren't filed within 24 hours:



Unless you're Skyforger, of course, who has been playing leagues for 17 minutes and granting appeals with no understanding of how anything works.

The 24-hour appeal process has been set in stone for decades.

[Henry Saari]

Maybe we can take time to address the rule itself. Why can't the borrowed player be a 7* in another league? Shouldn't it only matter what their * rating is in the league they want to be borrowed? Also how could someone like destruct be a 7 in jav?

This is very valid point, will be looked into.

[Henry Saari]

I'm not answering this appeal yet in any possible manner, lets chew on this first.

-Nasty gained advantage by borrowing a 7-star player that apparently was so big advantage they lost in both occasions. (In both occasions opposing team captain agreed to this sub to allow 8vs8 game)
-Nasty gained advantage by borrowing a 6-star player that apparently was 7 in a javelin. This player ended up negging both games but with good carry they at least won their games.

-The people here discussing Cyclone and his value to TWDT or his team, are you entirely sure you are sober?

[ogron]

lol, current league ops definitely don't have the mental tools or league experience required to adjudicate this, should be hilarious.

you're talking about clear rules violations, yet there's a ton of past precedent in TWL and TWDT that appeals have to be filed within 24 hours of a match. the appeals should all be denied on this basis.

compound that by the fact the rule Commodo is citing is a rule Vys copypasta'd from my previous leagues -- I doubt any of the league ops are even aware it exists or intended for it to be applied this season.

one the one hand, Nasty have been far and away the biggest cheats this season, from illegal low-star slot violations, Power throwing their final game vs. them, and Turban's stated 5% showrate then playing practically every game,
while on the other you have the biggest whiner in the history of TWDT in Dreamwin, whose team underperformed and doesn't deserve to be in the playoffs, and got his teeth kicked in by yours truly to eliminate him in base on Sunday, and is still crying about it.

in terms of actual impact, Destruct went 41-61 and 61-42 in the two wins he was borrowed, he played like a 2-star and had no material impact on any result. power threw a game after the standings were already decided (since nasty had a winning tiebreak already vs. terrorist) and had no material impact on the standings. turban lying about his showrate isn't illegal.

the only valid thing is the low-star slot violations, and every previous ruling in league history has required the appeal to be filed within 24 hours, and should be thrown out.

the bottom line is Terrorist played badly and deserved to miss the playoffs, and they're trying to weasel their way in. you sucked and you lost, get over it.

Nasty would have finished with 14 wins regardless -- with a winning tiebreak. The only actual rule violation were the 2 borrows, and the appeals weren't filed on time, and Destruct was garbage in both games, neither of which were very close.

Both teams are trash, but Nasty deserves the honor of being promptly swept in the Semi-Finals and knocked out by Power slightly more than Terrorist, which features a captain that actually had the unmitigated fucking gaul to accuse M_M God of being a cheating laggot after getting eliminated in base. The level of irony is unreal.

[ronaldinho]

Wirah, with all respect due for the work you do (especially on the website), if you are allow to play jav, Cyclone should be allow to play spid. And does staff involved in the problem can votes on the appeal?!

And for Trasher again, playing Cyclone in base is comparable to playing Yojimbo in warbird, just sayin'

[Soldier13]

Power did not throw the game, we got out gunned since they were experimenting with some lower tier members of the squad plus just wants a fun game since it is the week before Semi-Finals and they work the whole month so did not need to overkill with Nasty. No one plan or mention about how it is to thwart the Terrorist squadron in particular so why go there.

[zidane]

Lol appeals about using destruct (6* baser) in base games in which he negged in spider. 😂😂😂😂

Edit: also appealing certain games weeks after they happened is not allowed, there has always been an appeal window

[Wirah]

Maybe we can take time to address the rule itself. Why can't the borrowed player be a 7* in another league? Shouldn't it only matter what their * rating is in the league they want to be borrowed?

Yeah this doesn't make much sense to me.

For fairness would have Nasty play against Terrorist best 2 out of 3 rounds gets the playoff spot if this appeal is even important.

:O What game type would be used? Can't do wb, jav and basing - there's no time. No chance that either team agrees to this option.

Not sure what to make of this.

I wonder how many other "illegal" borrows took place this season because of this bizarre "can't be 7 in any league" rule. That rule just seems ridiculous.

[skyforger]

This is clear cut in rules.

Borrowing

5-Star and 6-Star players (they can't be a 7 in ANY league) that aren't started by their own teams (or eliminated from the playoffs) are eligible to be borrowed by other teams to avoid forfeits.

Also must add that Nasty was required to play their own players who were present. There was at least one 5/5/5 rated Nasty player present in at least 2 of the games where they resorted to these borrows. It is illegal to use borrows when the team's own eligible players are in the arena dying to play. Instead they borrowed, in one instance Tiny who is 7/9/7 so far from Cyclone. Not to mention the illegal ratings as illustrated by Commodo's OP.

Also worth mentioning that as the rules as they are written stand, it does not matter if the other team is informed/someone agrees, whatever - borrowing must meet the conditions prescribed in rules, period. For a good reason too, since as seen here it affects not only the 2 teams playing the game - but all the teams playing the league due to ladder, +/- rec.

In Week 5 game Nasty player even did a ?help call in addition to chatting about not being added but other TWDT staff ignored it. As far as I can see, there are no rules changes posted that 7* borrows are legal. Neither are there announcements that Cyclone is banned. Nor was it stated before draft, that the team drafting Cyclone can use borrows at will instead of own players, as some league team members are insinuating.

What happens when an illegal lineup is used is also included in the rules.

-Any kills/reps/active play that affects the game before the player either specs or is subbed will result in a 50-0 forfeit in TWDT-D/TWDT-J, and a 15:00-0:00 loss in TWDT-B.

Even one forfeit for Nasty, brings them to even score with Terrorist and it goes to +/- rec. Racka did know what he was doing. I sort of still count as TWDT staff. After the 1st time this happened and I caught wind, Racka was warned not to repeat it ever again, yet here we are. All other league staff team team was notified to decide on it too more formally, but it was brushed off since Henry Saari himself was involved in hosting the games where this was happening.

Since I still happen to have a vote in this: 1 vote for appeal approved

[ronaldinho]

It's time to see if the "comitee" have more credibility than a "one man dictatorship"(aka Ogron). I personally think that a dictator who force people to respect the rules is way better than a little group keeping things secret (like our dear society). Btw who are comitee members?! Can we know who votes the appeals?! An appeal has been approved because F2 buged, now that a team blatantly cheat I can guess it won't be approve? I want the "comitee" to prove me i'm wrong to call them idiots.


Doubtfull things happend earlier too, no regards with nasty affair, but I won't talk about it since the boy concerned just took profit of credulous people, again :shy:

[Ricko]

key take out from this - borrow Tiny and you lose

[Dierienow]

Sucks for Nasty.. I agree they should at least be able to make an attempt with their true roster. Because "RaCka" isn't the type of player to cheat to begin with, and the fact that the rule is just one line (of course that doesn't justify breaking them..) I believe it's just an honest mistake.

Maybe we can take time to address the rule itself. Why can't the borrowed player be a 7* in another league? Shouldn't it only matter what their * rating is in the league they want to be borrowed? Also how could someone like destruct be a 7 in jav?

Hellrazor: Hope you're not talking about Cyclone lol.. might want to check his ratings. 5* across the board is good in a lot of other contexts though