Spamming will NOT be tolerated in league matches

[Falconeer]

someone give this guy a medal already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

also falconeer if u have no plans or spamming nor breaking any of the rules mentionned above why are u so butthurt man...makes no sense. you're wasting your time trying to be an attention whore going up against mods/league ops with no real purpose. the rules are clearly set back by both branches of staff yet you still write paragraphs, grow up and move on with your life my man

p.s. this is not an issue you'll be facing anyway

No one really comes here and talks ideas except qan and turban and a few people. Other than that people just keep bringing me up for some reason when all my posts are about ideas and not people. I don't get it. You guys want less trolls and troublemakers in the game, but when someone decides to help out you make it hard for them to be anything but a troll. This isn't so much a problem for me because i've always been able to handle pixel text but I can see how it would be a problem for other people.

Anyway, i'm sorry you think i'm going up against people, but I actually don't view this thread that way at all. From my outlook i'm providing my opinion on netbans and when they should be used. Qan was updating my knowledge on what happens in the game, and from what I can tell me and staff are pretty much aligned on how severe a netban is and when it should be used. There is no animosity here toward staff or any one person from my end. Sorry if it's not reciprocal but I can only do so much to make a change, other people have to meet half way, but I'm not going to lose sleep if someone wants to keep hating on me.

If someone writes a lot, and you don't like that or don't have time, then don't read it. I'm not here to care what people think about me, or who chooses to read or not. This is precisely the reason I never ?ignore evade. I do care about what you think about the ideas being discussed, but I post for myself... (in the sense that this is the least i can do in the name of fairness and helping the community), not to try and convince people. In other words as a community member I do my part and offer my view, from then on it's out of my hands. I might try to encourage something I really believe in strongly... but there's nothing wrong with caring about things. I guess alot of people would rather I was not a community member, but I don't wish that on other people. I can't do much about the past only about things from this point on, so I just want to try and get along with people or disagree in an adult way if we disagree.

I've actually read literature on changing peoples minds, because it came up in something/accidentally stumbled on it. Basically you can't change someone's mind, not in 2 hours, not with 100 forum posts either. You have to really know someone very well, and even then they have to want to be open to change on their own. The best you can do is live by example and maybe make a suggestion that over time would nudge them in your direction. So i don't come here with an intention to make you all think like i do. But i still think there is value in a healthy debate and sharing of ideas.

1. What I did here was find out if netban policy is changing, and I learned it's being based on cheating policy for league.
2. I offered suggestions on the duration of the netban.
3. I suggested a way to netban during the match so it actually means something for the two teams facing each other and doesn't effect the outcome of the game. Besides that I basically made a proposal about less evidence but a netban that lasts during match time only, just to see what qan would offer as a response in terms of things I maybe didn't think of, or maybe he has a good solution of his own.
4. I suggested that players can twitch stream their game and even use voice chat.

5. Less important, i let people who care know my stance on things in the game. Since some people seem to think I would be someone who spams, which has never happened. If i spammed in the past it would be me yelling in pub or on tw discord about something i think. I've never PM spammed anyone in 20 years.

I don't see a problem here with anything that I did. In the real world we have checks and balances for people in power, so it should be a good thing anytime a community member is involved.

Qan told me once that someone in his position sort of takes a back seat, he's right in a way... and i can definitely see why/sympathize with why he would say that. But i also disagree with him a bit - though i think he intended 'backseat' as not being overpowering or too dominating with conversation haha. It's true that i'm intentionally not taking a back seat on trench wars forums for various reasons... but there is no real down side to posting a lot, and a lot of the work i'm doing in game, with other people, and on discord is largely unaffected by my posts here. Also notice i defer to ogron and rabs expertise in a lot of threads here, in which i don't post, so while something may be of a personal nature to them? it's not personal for me, i'm just being myself and sharing ideas where i think i can provide good input.

i care about qans opinion and other TW staffs opinions (and peoples ideas in general too) and if qan or tw staff have a big problem i trust that they will let me know. Anyway, to some degree its probably not great to be highly opinionated if you want to help unite people... because you tend to become controversial and threaten the status quo... but i think if i'm consistent then over time people with open minds will eventually see i mean well, and that it's okay for people to not always see eye to eye and it's not a big problem... to me that's a good enough reason to post so people can not get along in a productive way a good way... i want to change the fact that someone might disagree on forums and the guy on "receiving" end will say to themselves "who the fuck is this guy? does he even play? why does he hate me? why is he out to get me?" this is why we have wars and shit in the world because everyone has a strong negative reaction and thinks the person must hate them if they don't agree. And things are not black and white like that... i've lived thirty years and have different experiences, chances are i'll have my own ideas and think differently about solving problems... that's okay, and it's okay if you disagree.

Over the years many people for example have told me they really dislike Beer hunter/henry saari. I've been frustrated by him too... but I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt i like BH because i compartmentalize things differently. In other words if someone doesn't do what you want, it doesn't make them a bad person, there is no equivalency there. BH to me is a very nice person, he tolerates a lot and learned how to not get triggered. I think he might be paranoid and overly cautious... might make decisions based on a fear response sometimes. But he's human. I don't hate the guy, i don't hate anyone. Do i like what he's done? (basically nothing) especially with DSB in 8 years? hell no. it pisses me right the fuck off. But i don't take that frustration and let it warp my sense of who he is as a human being. Life is too short to hate people.

anyway, cheers to whoever read this, and if not that's okay.

[zidane]

Need ogron to teach me how to ignore ppl on forums

[Lupin]

zidane fyi There is a thread on this: https://forums.trenchwars.com/forum/...e-on-the-forum

[Grasps]

I'd like to suggest that if a player is victim to spamming during a TWL match, that player has his/her scores voided and each team receives -10 pts at the conclusion of the match. Taking 10 pts from both teams while voiding the victims score essentially removes any advantage/disadvantage the player who was spammed has on the impact of the game. This eliminates the need to replay the match, though I still think a replay would be the better solution. What I suggest isn't perfect either but it's definitely better than just net banning a person who spammed someone during a TWL match which doesn't persevere the integrity of the match, doing the suggested does.

[RoDNeY]

Definitely not reading anything that guy posts, 8 damn paragraphs for no reason that bare no weight. Just tries to oppose against anything anyone contributes in every thread. Real tired of it. Just going to keep scrolling anytime i see Falconeer. Guy trying to be somebody and have people respect his opinion but he is getting the exact opposite result with this behavior. Smh

So many cut and dry easy topics lately and people blow them up into miniature debates for no fucking reason.

[Falconeer]

Definitely not reading anything that guy posts, 8 damn paragraphs for no reason that bare no weight. Just tries to oppose against anything anyone contributes in every thread. Real tired of it. Just going to keep scrolling anytime i see Falconeer. Guy trying to be somebody and have people respect his opinion but he is getting the exact opposite result with this behavior. Smh

So many cut and dry easy topics lately and people blow them up into miniature debates for no fucking reason.

The person who attempts to get something from his present experience feels divided from it. He is the subject and it is the object. He does not see that he is the experience, and that trying to get something from it is merely self-pursuit." ― Alan Watts in "Nature, Man and Woman"

I'm actually saying you don't have to respect my opinion. You don't know anything about me. I don't demand respect, nowhere have I asked anyone to respect me. Asking for respect is like whining "admire me!" I spent 20 years in this game not being somebody, gaining notoriety instead of "admiration".

If I cared about public opinion I wouldn't have been banned countless times (none of my views or outlooks have changed just my choices), and it would have been super easy to be sysop in three zones by now.

I understand some of you are mad you can't bully me. But... you will get over it. =)

zidane fyi There is a thread on this: https://forums.trenchwars.com/forum/...e-on-the-forum

You beat me to it, i would have linked him.

I'd like to suggest that if a player is victim to spamming during a TWL match, that player has his/her scores voided and each team receives -10 pts at the conclusion of the match. Taking 10 pts from both teams while voiding the victims score essentially removes any advantage/disadvantage the player who was spammed has on the impact of the game. This eliminates the need to replay the match, though I still think a replay would be the better solution. What I suggest isn't perfect either but it's definitely better than just net banning a person who spammed someone during a TWL match which doesn't persevere the integrity of the match, doing the suggested does.

Grasps is on point with not exiling people from the game longer than necessary and solving the issue during the actual league match in question.

[Jessup]

I wish we could just add a PM disable feature all along the board in this game. Any way a bot could be made to do this?

[Dabram]

i agree with jessup. having an in-game function to block all pms (except from staff, maybe own squad? would be lovely), because that would be the only proper solution to this 'potential' problem. i imagine this one of those game mechanics that we can't alter though..?

because we can argue all day how hefty a ban should be for trying to harrass a player who's playing in a finals (or w/e league game), in the end, if it's somebody who never really plays this game and just wants a bit of fame during one of the few 'big' days in this game, what does a 30 day ban really do..? plus having to screenshot for prove and ?ignore to continue to play without being spammed, means the harrasment can still be decisive to the outcome of a match, and no one really wants a replay of a finals..

bit sad this is actually an active topic in our game in 2019...

[Mythril]

I'd like to suggest that if a player is victim to spamming during a TWL match, that player has his/her scores voided and each team receives -10 pts at the conclusion of the match. Taking 10 pts from both teams while voiding the victims score essentially removes any advantage/disadvantage the player who was spammed has on the impact of the game. This eliminates the need to replay the match, though I still think a replay would be the better solution. What I suggest isn't perfect either but it's definitely better than just net banning a person who spammed someone during a TWL match which doesn't persevere the integrity of the match, doing the suggested does.

Not sure how this makes any sense. You can't determine just how much spamming affects a player in a game. Is it impossible to play through someone spamming you? If you type ?lines=0, are you handicapped beyond the capability to function? If you are, how are we deciding what the impact was? 2 kills, 10 kills? Should we have different rules depending on what * the player being spammed was, as each player has a different expectation? I'd love to have my 6* player's score voided.

I raise the questions just to show how counterproductive it is to make any pre-game rules. No matter what the rule, it's a guarantee that they won't be suited to fix any situation in reality. Also, if I say that a game is immediately void if a player gets spammed or create any other rigid ruleset, it's possible for either of the teams to game the rules in their favor. It doesn't fix the problem.

The best course of action seems to be to create this thread. Deter the idiots from attempting something this stupid, and avoid the annoyance altogether (remember, this is the most likely outcome). But if it does happen, outside of the 24 scenario from years back where he claimed his PC was having a seizure, I don't know if the spamming during a game would deserve a replay. As with all things, we'll need to know the context.

Teams of course will be allowed to appeal any game for any reason. As myself and Henry's team's are involved in the playoffs, I'm sure we could get more objective help from a TWL Op like Turban to determine the outcome. But let's think clearly about these things. The in-game impact of spamming is not the same as DDOSing. Players who are spammed should continue to play the game to the best of their ability and assume the results will stand. Everything else will be figured out afterwards, when it should be.

[Mythril]

Definitely not reading anything that guy posts, 8 damn paragraphs for no reason that bare no weight. Just tries to oppose against anything anyone contributes in every thread. Real tired of it. Just going to keep scrolling anytime i see Falconeer. Guy trying to be somebody and have people respect his opinion but he is getting the exact opposite result with this behavior. Smh

So many cut and dry easy topics lately and people blow them up into miniature debates for no fucking reason.

But ideas.

[Falconeer]

i agree with jessup. having an in-game function to block all pms (except from staff, maybe own squad? would be lovely), because that would be the only proper solution to this 'potential' problem. i imagine this one of those game mechanics that we can't alter though..?

because we can argue all day how hefty a ban should be for trying to harrass a player who's playing in a finals (or w/e league game), in the end, if it's somebody who never really plays this game and just wants a bit of fame during one of the few 'big' days in this game, what does a 30 day ban really do..? plus having to screenshot for prove and ?ignore to continue to play without being spammed, means the harrasment can still be decisive to the outcome of a match, and no one really wants a replay of a finals..

bit sad this is actually an active topic in our game in 2019...

A PM disable feature would be nice, I could look into it, but if something like that were possible it likely would have already been done, or it's only possible on AS3. And it might end up disabling PMs from everyone, including bots/commands... so it might not work.

When you ask what a ban can really do... my point was more if we're actually not out to inflict harm on a player but just prevent a behaviour then we would want to ban them only during matches, or find a way to make it effective during the league match in question like Grasps wants to do. I can't say if grasps has good ideas, but his overall idea is correct to me, how you do it is another question entirely. Mythril is also correct in supporting prevention...

Bans won't necessarily be deterrents to everyone. There are ways to get ban free's in this game. There are ways to bypass bans too. Someone who is bored and out to cause trouble will just see the ban as a fun challenge. In my opinion the longer the ban, the longer you are are teaching someone to be smart about evading. You don't want trolls who can unban, like a bacteria developing immunity to an antibiotic :P

[BIET]

You can disable private messaging with "*lockprivate" (locks private messages (the / and :: ones)), but I'm pretty sure that only blocks private messages from being send in that specific arena and you would still be able to receive PMs from outside the arena and from staff/bots. You would also be locked out of using bots or messaging your team. Blocking PMs would either be a feature of a new client or AS3.

Just don't be that guy who is sad enough to spam. Whatever the consequences might be.