Wanted! Someone please fix the spawns in twdd.

[Grasps]

Ever since Tiny's map was implemented and removed the re-spawn points have been utter shit. No joke, I get spawned on average 3 times a game now. I also re-spawn people 3-4 times a game. The problem is all the spawns were changed to accommodate a fucking circle which is basically just mid field. Old map got put back but the spawns for the small circle map remained. I see it constantly where I'll kill a guy and they respond right back where they died or worse, right on top of me. It's ridiculous and has really tainted the fun aspect of warbird games as it's just a massive spawn fest. Add the lag from the server (which has been at an all time high lately) I am finding myself not having much fun in my favorite ship. It's chaotic and messy.

For the fix: Please limit the spawns in mid. 9 times out of 10, mid is where we are fighting. Pepper the spawns along the outsides like top right, top left, left, right, bottom right, bottom left and leave very few in mid. Not sure but increase the randomness of them too. I don't want to die and respond at the same spot. Can't count home many times I've died and repeatedly respawned at the same spot of death. When you are getting spawned and that happens, you keep getting spawn killed which just boils me.

I'd do this but I've not been able to get the map editor working at all and there is no one willing to help me or guides on it. I've been wanting to make maps for other things I have planned to share but that's a huge hangup right there. But yea, am sure I am not a lone on this. Most active warbirds will vouch the spawns are dogshit. Just thought with TWDT and TWL coming, this needs to be addressed ASAP. Please fix!!

[qan]

I'd thought spawns had been set back to the old settings. This may simply be a very old problem.

Currently it's set at a radius of 100 from the center of the arena. In DT it's 120. I'm not sure why there's a difference. That's definitely an error which I can fix now.


Possible additional fixes:

• Increase radius further. The arena is 300x400, so radius could be raised as high as nearly 150. Simple and fast to change. Also the most reliable, as bot lag can cause delayed spawns and people warping after spawn. The following solutions can all cause delayed spawns due to the fact that our bots are emulating players, and are not controlled at the server level.
• Bot solutions:
  • Spawn players at a random coordinate throughout the rectangle.
  • Create spawn zones with different spawn rates, increasing with likelihood as you get further out.
  • Spawn players away from enemies. Check several possible spawn areas and only spawn a player once a suitable location is found. Player positions are not very reliable, though, so this might fail.

[Grasps]

I'd thought spawns had been set back to the old settings. This may simply be a very old problem.

Currently it's set at a radius of 100 from the center of the arena. In DT it's 120. I'm not sure why there's a difference. That's definitely an error which I can fix now.


Possible additional fixes:

• Increase radius further. The arena is 300x400, so radius could be raised as high as nearly 150. Simple and fast to change. Also the most reliable, as bot lag can cause delayed spawns and people warping after spawn. The following solutions can all cause delayed spawns due to the fact that our bots are emulating players, and are not controlled at the server level.
• Bot solutions:
  • Spawn players at a random coordinate throughout the rectangle.
  • Create spawn zones with different spawn rates, increasing with likelihood as you get further out.
  • Spawn players away from enemies. Check several possible spawn areas and only spawn a player once a suitable location is found. Player positions are not very reliable, though, so this might fail.

I'd say increase the radius to max (150) and see if it decreases spawn kills since it's the fastest and most reliable way to try and fix it.

If not, I like the ideas of having the bot spawn you away from enemies quite a bit actually and has my vote if the max radius fails. I'm also fine with spawns at random coordinates of the map so long as midfield spawns are reduced or removed. I know it might take extra time for spawning back into the game as the bot calculates your data but in my mind it's worth it to not spawn onto of an enemy bullet or an enemy ship.

I've always tried to think of a way for us to have spawn zones that wouldn't make the game tacky but so far haven't come up with anything concrete other than team 1 has a box on left they spawn in and team 2 has a box on right they spawn in. Maybe someone smarter than me can think of something cleaver that won't disrupt the competitiveness of games. I love how jav and base have spawns outside of the play area and always wished to think of a way to make warbird have that but yea, years of brainstorming and nothing xD

Thanks for getting back to me on this Qan. I really think a lot of players are going to appreciate these changes and reducing the spawn killing in warbird. Awesome stuff brother.

Edit: think I misunderstood your 'spawn zone' suggestion. Are you talking about like having multiple zones within the map? Like an onion where the outside (border) can have more spawns and as the zones get close to mid we reduce the spawn rates for them? That would also work too if the case.

[qan]

Yes, that's what I meant about spawn zones, where the frequency of spawning in an area would increase in relation to how far you are from the center of the map. The onion analogy is apt. It would need to be done carefully in order to keep things fair, though. For example, you wouldn't want people to simply start trolling edges in an attempt to spawn. Perhaps having the most frequent being one layer away from the edge would make the most sense, as that would prevent players from getting pinned against the wall.

In the meantime the spawn radius was increased to the maximum in DD. I didn't push that change to DTD or LD. Let's see how it works in TWD before moving it up. I think that should create an immediate noticeable difference. If that's not sufficient we can look at other methods (which may be somewhat less reliable and cause their own unforeseen problems).

[Grasps]

Yes, that's what I meant about spawn zones, where the frequency of spawning in an area would increase in relation to how far you are from the center of the map. The onion analogy is apt. It would need to be done carefully in order to keep things fair, though. For example, you wouldn't want people to simply start trolling edges in an attempt to spawn. Perhaps having the most frequent being one layer away from the edge would make the most sense, as that would prevent players from getting pinned against the wall.

In the meantime the spawn radius was increased to the maximum in DD. I didn't push that change to DTD or LD. Let's see how it works in TWD before moving it up. I think that should create an immediate noticeable difference. If that's not sufficient we can look at other methods (which may be somewhat less reliable and cause their own unforeseen problems).

HUGE! Thanks Qan, you are a rockstar my man. I totally agree that we should test everything out in TWD before messing around with DT but yea, I'll give you my feedback and hope others will too over the coming days. Little too late to get a game tonight but for sure tomorrow. Can't wait to see how it plays out now that it's been increased. Hopefully it does the trick but if not I look forward to testing out some other methods should it come down to it. Really appreciate it and hope you have a great night. Cheers!

[qan]

Radius pushed down to 110. It was worth a shot, but it caused a pretty substantial change in play where the former safe ring (where you assumed you would not be spawned behind) was taken away.

110 is still an increase from 100, so it should feel less prone to spawns than before. Let's see how it plays and watch the interchange between spawns vs the retention of the spawn-free bubble which people have internalized into their play over many years.

[Grasps]

Some reason this got archived..

Anyways, so i've been playing games religiously last 3 nights and am still getting spawned multiple times during a match.. honestly I can't tell the difference from the changes you made. Spawning is just as bad as it's ever been. I get spawned 2-3 times a match and I spawn kill people 2-3 times a match. Something else needs to be done because the fix you put in place did nothing unfortunately..

[qan]

All TWDT threads get archived when a new season starts. It would be a better idea to bring this up in the TWD forum.

We figured out that the spawn change isn't viable because it impacts the game substantially. A better approach is probably one of the other solutions mentioned. The only one that wouldn't change the impression of the safe zone around the edges is to check positions and spawn players away from enemies. Could also look at spawning players near teammates, but again, that could seriously change the overall play of the game.

This might be a change that could be most easily tested somewhere such as Elim, simply spawning players away from others.

[Grasps]

Ahhhhh ok.

But seriously, qan something needs to be done. It's ridiculous the amount of spawning that is going on in dueling arena's. Look at javelin or base, the spawn's are incredibly rare though this is due to the layout of those arena's. But still, we need to figure out a way to decrease the amount of spawning that is happening in warbird. It's just sloppy and I think it's what causes some people to be turned off. I want to help change this.

Reasons:

1. server lag (people eat ALOT)
2. you have 1 bullet and if someone eats it in a r1 or r2 range and is competent in that ship--RIP.
3. spawn deaths--top the fact that you have a single bullet to kill, people who eat shots when you respawn you get killed.

Hopeful fixes:

1. better server--topic for another discussion but i'd love to help get that donation train rolling for a better server
2. can't be fixed but decreasing spawn kills and eats will help
3. change the way respawns are functioning in dueling arenas to minimize or get rid of them entirely

How can we create spawn zones for the bot? I'd like to try this and get spawns out of middle (which is like 70% of where all spawn deaths occur)

OR

Program bot to spawn us away from enemies. I don't think anyone is going to complain if it takes extra time to respawn back into game. In fact, it's normal in other games to have a wait.

I am here to do whatever I can, test out changes and give you feedback Thanks Qan.

[Rab]

The key principle is where you spawn and where you fight should be different places.

[beam]

honestly I get spawned more in twjd than I do in twdd I think it's just more common to get spawned in an arena that you are a worse player in and don't think the spawn zone in twdd is an issue at all

[Grasps]

honestly I get spawned more in twjd than I do in twdd I think it's just more common to get spawned in an arena that you are a worse player in and don't think the spawn zone in twdd is an issue at all

How often do you play in dd's though? I play every night, 2-4 games..Think if you played more you may have a different opinion of the spawns.

[Grasps]

Am heading off to bed but the last game of the night I was spawned a total of 7 times in 3 rounds. That's ridiculous in my opinion. Sorry you feel different. Also, my definition of spawn may be different but to me a spawn is when you reload before you can even move or shoot you die. That's what is happening to me and other regular players. I am tired of it personally and really would appreciate for us to figure out a way to minimize or limit them. To me, spawning and respawning isn't a strategic way to win games though it may be for others. Spawns are cheap and don't belong in competitive play.

[beam]

just played 2 dd's tonight got spawned 0 times and don't hear anybody else complaining about spawn radius so it sounds like it's more of a personal problem

[Grasps]

just played 2 dd's tonight got spawned 0 times and don't hear anybody else complaining about spawn radius so it sounds like it's more of a personal problem

Congrats to finally getting out of spec and playing a game! Am always on and missed it somehow, shame.

I don't understand why every thread I make trying to help this game you come in and shit all over it. Seems like you have a personal vendetta and I've always been straight with you so not sure why but good on you if it makes you feel better.

I'll just put this bluntly--if this doesn't get addressed I quit.

I am trying to help this game. Really am. I love this game. I've joined staff, I am constantly on here offering help or ways to improve. I am always out to help. I play every single night whether am sick, healthy, w/e. But I am not going to continue getting spawned numerous times a game. Not to mention the eats from lagcheats that i'll leave nameless as not to derail this thread.

No way. I've been putting up with this garbo long enough holding out we'd address and fix it but if not, then am out. Am done with this game if it's going to remain like it is. Sorry not sorry.