TWL Format: PRO & Intermediate League (IML)

[Riverside]

Every once in a while I'll be posting a question for the TW community 2 c wut efery1 think of an idea that I haf seen be successfil in anothir zone.

What i recommend 4 TW:

1. PRO League (5+ teams)
2. Intermediate League (IML) (5+ teams)
3. Relegation System: last 2 from PRO and first 2 from IML face off to see who gets to play in PRO in the playoffs (Edit: example inspired by Hellzno!)
4. To make this pissibil: no draft (choose who you play with), small rosters in all leagues (2-3 subs), play each opponent once during the season

Where I got it from:

When Chaos (SVS) league was popping in terms of population, it was broken up into 3 leagues:

Pro League
Intermediate League (IML)
Amateur League (AML)

This allowed for:

• Competition within each league, on a week to week basis. I think we would see less blow outs during the season (which is partly, imo, why it usually feels drawn out)
• Much like the consequences of TWDT (imo), we see more players get experience in league play, players get better, and the game gets better overall
• "Training squads" that allowed players to grow with squads from IML to PRO (ones cum 2 mind r SFE, Rebels, Llamas).

How teams can be selected for Pro:

• Last seasons winner (and/or finalist) auto entry
• Combined star rating of top 5 players in warbird/javelin, top 8 in accompanying ships in basing (could be a good way to make sure no team is in IML when they shouldn't be)
• If theres a tie, play a game during a scheduled time by the 2 Captins like we used 2 in the old days (we used 2 choose a time: sats or Sundays)
• Borrow systim and giniril activity primition makes it hard 4 me 2 think of ways 2 use twd systim here beyond using it to allow teams 2 set up their teams and continue 2 vs other teams (so not 4 entry), since its codid alrdy and ppl compete w it. Im sure we could though.
• (i think using twd points as we've done in the past is 2 easy 2 nerf on its own. It cud b a contributing factir, like fan voting is for nba allstars)

[Rab]

Other: TWL is shit for the zone and always has been. The only change worth making is to never run it again.

[Zeebu]

i appreciate the sentiment, but i dont see any way this gains much traction. TWL matters to the people that will form the cores of probably 2-3 squads... maybe 4. 3 or 4 competitive squads per league seems about par for the course. by all means have as many squads as this can support. in general, though, i suspect the real limiting factor here would be quality captains. its not as big of an issue in twdt since all of the best caps are typically split up evenly around the league. in TWL the best caps will likely be on those 3-4 squads. im far too much of a flake to ever want to captain anything, so i wouldnt be up for that. im also not good enough to demand much playtime on any of the top squads.

for me TWL has only ever been fun because it was a more competitive extension of twd. i mean that in the sense of you choose who you play with and who you squad with. as the community has gotten smaller, just about everyone who plays in any of the competitive leagues know each other pretty well and likely find themselves on at least one chat with nearly everyone. the particular twd squad youre on makes no difference with all of the borrowing. dont get me wrong, im a fan of borrowing and it has done fantastic things for activity. all i mean is that the same sort of camaraderie just doesnt exist like it used to. being a fairly middling player, that was the biggest draw.

[HellzNo!]

The only way I could see this working is if there was some sort of relegation like soccer, where the last placed team from the PRO league gets bumped down to the IML league for playoffs and the first place team from IML gets bumped up etc. Otherwise there is really no incentive for the teams playing in the IML/AML other than to play somewhat competitive games, which is more or less what TWD offers.

I think everyone is aware what a zone killer TWL is, as it only caters to the best of the best. However as a competitive person that only makes me strive to try and reach those levels(however delusional that might be), and something like this at least offers a potential to play with/against the elite talent in the game. Just my two cents

[Riverside]

The only way I could see this working is if there was some sort of relegation like soccer, where the last placed team from the PRO league gets bumped down to the IML league for playoffs and the first place team from IML gets bumped up etc. Otherwise there is really no incentive for the teams playing in the IML/AML other than to play somewhat competitive games, which is more or less what TWD offers.

I think everyone is aware what a zone killer TWL is, as it only caters to the best of the best. However as a competitive person that only makes me strive to try and reach those levels(however delusional that might be), and something like this at least offers a potential to play with/against the elite talent in the game. Just my two cents

Ye there usually was some sort of relegation.

I dun remember if it happened during mid season, after season, or like you suggested, playoffs, which is a gr8 call.

That was part of the incentive tho. If I wanted to play against the best of the best in a league where everyone gets to choose who to team with (not draft), I had to play for it- and gradually got better (AML-IML-Pro).

Sometimes it was with the help of practicing (like ppl haf been doing comptitively with/for TWDT), moreso it was with the help of observing or reading what others had 2 say (sharing of wealth of 2d knowledge is gr8 when asked; its also ok 2 keep spaceship gems 2 ursilf imo)

Edited original post

[Vehicle]

There is not enough of a population to support a two-tier league. You're looking at 4 squads in each, max, without severe roster limits. Beam (I think?) pitched this already and tried to get a sign-up going for a DT that was going to be run in this vein and there was very little interest. People don't want to play in a B league, they'd rather get demolished in an A league (at lease for the first two weeks).

I agree with the people ITT saying TWL is a zone killer. It is and that's inarguable. Unfortunately, though, it does have to be run at least once a year. My suggestions:

• Either make squads qualify with wins in TWD or don't tie roster cap to divisions participated in. Several squads multi-leagued last season strictly for the roster spots.
• Make the TWL season short. Two games a weekend, every plays each other once, playoffs, the end.
• Start the season shortly after DT so that it runs during the summer (typically a lower-population time for the zone anyway)
• Run a small baseduel or tourny or proball or something tournament that happens on the same day/time as TWL. Give people who aren't playing TWL a reason to log in.

My other idea would be to limit TWL rosters to no more than two or three 10* players to force talent to spread out. But at that point it's hard to call it TWL.

[RaCka]

From the previous couple of seasons of TWDT and TWL I think it's fair to say at this point that TWDT is much better for overall zone activity and hype for this game compared to TWL. My suggestion would be to stick with shorter TWL seasons for the time being (5 week reg season + playoffs) and possibly extend future TWDT seasons an extra couple of weeks of regular season maybe something like 8 week regular season and make the playoff qualifications a little stricter like top 6 teams overall for a 10 squad season.

On a side note, on stream Mythril brought up we should add a MatchBot feature that allows staff members to remove a laggy player from the game to reconnect without adding a +1 death which definitely should be implemented for future leagues.

[Rab]

On a side note, on stream Mythril brought up we should add a MatchBot feature that allows staff members to remove a laggy player from the game to reconnect without adding a +1 death which definitely should be implemented for future leagues.

This is a good idea.

I think the !lag thing from elim should be implemented everywhere too. Let me use !lag on people to get the bot to deal with it, instead of using a cheater call. I know staff get pissed off with me using cheater calls for lag, but I can pretty consistently go in elim and spec people with !lag, when that feature isn't available I have no other way to deal with it.

I also think the lag limits should be public knowledge, in the rules post. Very fking annoying seeing people I'm convinced are over the limit to be told the limit is 9999 so nobody gives a fuck. This would facilitate discussion about what players want the limits to be. (imo: 200ms / 0.5% zonewide would be generous)

[ogron]

From the previous couple of seasons of TWDT and TWL I think it's fair to say at this point that TWDT is much better for overall zone activity and hype for this game compared to TWL. My suggestion would be to stick with shorter TWL seasons for the time being (5 week reg season + playoffs) and possibly extend future TWDT seasons an extra couple of weeks of regular season maybe something like 8 week regular season and make the playoff qualifications a little stricter like top 6 teams overall for a 10 squad season.

I agree with shortened TWL and just sticking to TWDT.

I really think 10 teams with 8 making playoffs (like this season) was excellent. It keeps more teams engaged, and again, I honestly believe byes are, on average, a punishment and not a reward. I hate having the #1 seed and not playing for two weeks.

This season, for instance, we made some major fixes and improvements to our cram break in TWDT-B and having the #2 seed and playing a lower-seeded opponent in the QF allowed us to implement, tune, and improve that (among other things) and stay warm for the semi-finals. There are lots of non-TWD players who only play Sundays and they get thrown off hard after 14 days off. I cannot say this enough...

BYES ARE TRASH.

Teams come in rusty after two weeks off and you don't get to work out issues against the lowest seed team in preparation for the semis vs. a tougher opponent.

I'm not a fan of the star cap, but this current season is close to perfect in terms of execution, and has the least broken stars of any TWDT season I can remember. There's a bunch of players who are clearly .5 off, but that's natural variance and within the margin of error. Last season there were multiple players who were 1* or even 2* off.

Thanks again to Racka, Biet, Sprackle, Wirah, and everyone else who contributed to a great season.

[RageRitual]

Some sort of 2-tier league event would probably be better to try out in DT first instead of TWL. The zone was rather inactive when it was attempted and failed to get running recently, we could make another attempt when it's not. With DT you could remove the star cap completely and simply have everyone 8.5 or 8 or whatever number is half-way go into league A and everyone lower go into league B.

[Riverside]

Some sort of 2-tier league event would probably be better to try out in DT first instead of TWL. The zone was rather inactive when it was attempted and failed to get running recently, we could make another attempt when it's not. With DT you could remove the star cap completely and simply have everyone 8.5 or 8 or whatever number is half-way go into league A and everyone lower go into league B.

1. TWDT
2. TWDT Beer League

[Jones]

1. TWDT Beer League

Let's GO!