more iraq prison abuse...

[THE ENFORCER]

We can tell what your intentions are, your too ovious, you forum troll you.

Then what are they lets see if you can get it right?

[Azhran]

Trolling

[zx.]

Do you remember when the iraqis downed a few of the US planes on the first strikes after 9-11... they drag our guys through the streets, publicly execute people and no one cares...

Some of our guys have some fun, take pix and are in the shit - but they are enemy! If you think about what they do to our guys how can ANYONE be against it!

[Subjugation]

Do you remember when the iraqis downed a few of the US planes on the first strikes after 9-11... they drag our guys through the streets, publicly execute people and no one cares...

Some of our guys have some fun, take pix and are in the shit - but they are enemy! If you think about what they do to our guys how can ANYONE be against it!

interesting that you call abusing and torturing prisoners "fun". gg, troll.

[zx.]

In the statements the US soldiers say they were there to break the iraqis, you wont do this by giving them candy and blowjobs....

Personaly im very aggressive, if some camel jockeys ambushed me and my mates, shot dead 2-3 of them i wouldn't think twice about beating them to death... slowly.

I dont see why people nowdays have taught themselves things like this is bad. They want to kill you, anyway possible. Getting info out of them is important, revenge is fun. Why not?

[lunch3]

jesus, ur a pansy calling it torture, although now i hear one of them was actually torture, with the electrodes under fingertips. But 99% of it was just US soldiers humiliating Iraqi POWs which I don't think is right, but everyone looking to put down the Iraq war always comes up with these bullshit whines. The soldiers that did this were either already discharged with their military careers ruined, or might be found guilty and sentenced accordingly, what else to you people want.

zx. u are right, they did much more to our POWs then we did. We still shouldn't but these people calling it torture and making a big deal of it are really annoying me. But the truth is the more a big deal these people make it the more other rational people see this and start thinking, maybe Bush is not as bad as the tabloids make him to be. And in that way Bush might be re-elected. Would rather Kerry win, but wouldn't be upset if Bush was either.

These posts, and dumb criticism elsewhere on net and tv will just make Bush voters want to make sure they show up and vote. And might actually sway some to Bush's side in the long run as they use these same arguements and get blasted by other people irl showing them how un-informed and silly their arguments really are.

[Sarien]

Give me two weeks with you imprisoned lunch, and I could have you crying and shitting your pants everytime you saw the color blue, without laying a finger on you. Mental Torture counts just the same as physical torture in the Geneva Accords, which is exactly why these guys are in trouble. All the "revenge is good, look at what they did though" bullshit is just that.. bullshit. You do NOT claim to be the good guys and at the same time commit fucking WAR CRIMES. The two don't -work- together.

Mister zx person... several of the soldiers in the pictures with Iraqis were british soldiers. You just didn't get to always see their faces, like with the Americans.

[K2Grey]

I'm pretty sure zx is a troll, because I'm having problem imagining how anyone can be as dumb as him.

[Subjugation]

jesus, ur a pansy calling it torture, although now i hear one of them was actually torture, with the electrodes under fingertips. But 99% of it was just US soldiers humiliating Iraqi POWs which I don't think is right, but everyone looking to put down the Iraq war always comes up with these bullshit whines. The soldiers that did this were either already discharged with their military careers ruined, or might be found guilty and sentenced accordingly, what else to you people want.

how are you defining torture, because i'd consider raping and beating detainees pretty much it. those are the pictures that are coming soon, according to one of the congressmen who was interviewed after this week's congressional hearing, starring donald rumsfeld.

even rumsfeld himself was quoted as saying these new photos show "acts that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman."

and as far as the nudity and humiliation goes, you're missing the point. regardless of personal opinion, it still violates the geneva conventions, it's still illegal, and is only going to generate more hatred toward western society.

[Subjugation]

Personaly im very aggressive, if some camel jockeys ambushed me and my mates, shot dead 2-3 of them i wouldn't think twice about beating them to death... slowly.

I dont see why people nowdays have taught themselves things like this is bad. They want to kill you, anyway possible. Getting info out of them is important, revenge is fun. Why not?

that's nice that you're a racist and all, however we're not talking about denzel washington taking revenge on some dudes who wasted your little troll buddies. we're talking about representatives of foreign countries. as soldiers, they are obligated to fight within the rules of war as defined by the hague laws, and the geneva conventions.

i'm not going to be waste any more of my time, since it's pretty clear you're just trolling anyway.

btw: last i heard, racial slurrs got a warning...

[GoldenPlums]

In Britain, at least, any discussion to do with the war in Iraq has been pretty pathetic. We seem to have some very lazy journalists and some very lazy politicians. For example, the main debate over this has been whether Iraq had weapons of mass distruction. This was just an easy argument (easy stories for the media and easy discussions for politicians). Noone talked about what a weapon of mass destruction is? - probably because it's some crappy US term intended to be vague and meaningless. Noone talked about whether we needed to go to war or what the consequences might be.

The same kind of thing applies to the abuse of prisoners by US or UK troops. The debate in the UK has been whether the pictures are real or fake. If you are being truly honest about this you would know that you don't need pictures to know that this kind of stuff goes on. Get enough young men (or women) together and some of them will be morons. If the guy in the UK pics wasn't a soldier he would probably be beating up and pissing on people back home.

These morons will be delt with. If it turns out that this abuse was sanctioned higher up then that's a big problem, but it's still nothing compared to the big issues like why we went to war in the first place, and why Tony Blair wants to associate himself with a US administration consisting of ill-informed and small-minded idiots.

[THE ENFORCER]

how are you defining torture, because i'd consider raping and beating detainees pretty much it. those are the pictures that are coming soon, according to one of the congressmen who was interviewed after this week's congressional hearing, starring donald rumsfeld.

even rumsfeld himself was quoted as saying these new photos show "acts that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman."

and as far as the nudity and humiliation goes, you're missing the point. regardless of personal opinion, it still violates the geneva conventions, it's still illegal, and is only going to generate more hatred toward western society.

If the an investigation is in place, discharges and legal charges has been placed what more do you want? you cant punish and generalise a whole army for acts of a very small minority. Im sorry but its a piss poor effort to use this as an excuse against the war. I could however understand if you had a problem with the army in general (e.g they should have tigher control, pshcological anaysis) but to use it to undermine the war effort is piss poor.

[Subjugation]

read the previous posts, troll.

[lunch3]

If it was actually torture that happened then yes of course that is bad. As of now all I see is people calling posing Iraqi POWs in nude photos as torture, which that isn't.

Sarien, I'll show you real torture, once I was stuck in a dark room for around 12 hours with 5 different small song segments playing over and over and over again. I still have that Space Odyssey 2001 quote "hello Dave....what are you doing Dave......I thought we were friends Dave...." and Barney's theme song stuck in my head. I was tired at the end of it but not phased mentally by it otherwise then I think it was funny that I did that just to join a fraternity. For the torture I have planned I will take 10 toothpicks and hammer them between your finger nails and fingers and place your hands over an open fire in alternating fashion just for starters.

Again, I believe the war was a good idea. Almost all of Iraq is happy we took Saddam out, ask anyone there except for rich Sunnis. They all just hate America at the same time for not providing security to the Iraqi people against terrorists. For those people that think Iraqis are not grateful for the original ousting of Saddam you are very delusional. Many Iraqis are preparing 10s of thousands of pages of charges against Saddam for his atrosities for a war criminal court if that gives you any idea.

Bush's official reason was WMD (and yes they did define WMD as either nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons).

The UN even unanimously prepared a resolution basically saying "Let UN inspectors unheeded into Iraq to inspect for WMD or otherwise face serious consequences". In UN language 'serious consequences' means 'war'. It is not the US's fault that the rest of Europe pussied out of that resolution when Saddam obstructed the search. And now Europe is ignoring that fact and attacking the US every it can to try to prove the US was wrong when they were the ones who were honest and followed through from that resolution signed in November 2002.

Bush, I don't believe lied to the world or US, although I definitely do believe he picked and choose the evidence he presented. Don't prosecutors in a court do that? It is just that Europe, or anyone else, didn't provide evidence that the opposite was true, if you guys did then we wouldn't have gone to war justifiliable, and in that case people like me would agree with you that the war wasn't justifiable.

Saddam killed 2,000 of his own people, and we had evidence that he had or was trying to obtain WMD (as did the rest of Europe's intelligence agencies had found in their 'evidence' database). Based on that alone anyone would agree that Saddam was a threat, and the only way to avert a war was if Saddam let UN inspectors into Iraq to prove that he didn't have them. If he didn't have the weapons then why didn't he just comply, that was our reasoning and should have been Europe's, although Europe seems to be the home of pussy-dom, blatent ignorance, scape-goating dishonorable people and their respective governments for going back on their word because basically they were just 'bluffing' and Saddam caught that bluff while the US wasn't bluffing. Did any of your European leaders tell Bush that that resolution was just a bluff, nice going dickheads, let us continue to fight your wars and back up your words because all of you are are cowards with empty voices.

The question of whether WMD was there or not doesn't matter now that the war was already fought. The thing that DID matter was that European governments ALSO believed that Iraq had WMD and most of your governments backed-down to Saddam because you didn't want war and just wanted to try to bluff Saddam with that resolution. The UN is not a poker tournament, but is supposed to be and is itself trying to be an international courtroom with it's own laws to provide order on the world stage. The US is providing this order, but because you guys didn't back us up when you said you would the Iraq War has been viewed as an illegal war by the ignorant populaces of the world. If we want to someday provide peace and security to the world we need an organization like the UN, but one that doesn't back down from their own words.

PS I'm sorry if I offended any of my European friends, it is just my opinion and this argument is mostly directed to some [French] governments and people who are constantly trash-talking US for hateful and jealous reasons. Actually most of Europe, especially Eastern Europe, are on the US side because they have tasted war recently and know that war against dictatorial and oppressive communist regimes are a good thing. People who were against the war because peace is more important I'm okay with along with many other arguments. But people just looking to trash talk the US no matter what we do and without knowing the facts and depth behind tabloid headlines I do hava a problem with. Such people explained in last sentence remind me how much terrorists can easily sway populaces and make peace, security, and stability in the world a harder thing to achieve.

[THE ENFORCER]

I do support what you are saying (except the torture part) but there really isnt any point demeaning the French govt since the French have lost all credbility anyway because of their utlerior motives for not supporting the war the people that pose the biggest threat to the war effort are actually the US citizens (i.e those agianst the war) so i think you can utilize your time better in addressing those people.