Mafia: What a time to be alive!

[ixt]

vote the paul while I'm waiting for those less active to post like biet, missa. U say I have the more important mafia role, then why am I asking myself to be a main focus? Read it however ud like but noticeably ur list is primarily those players (excluding myself) who have posted (or have attempted) material worth analyzing. And sorry I missed the reason why u stuck voth in there, could repeat if u want. If it's cuz a NL, excuse me but u did the same thing regardless of what u say. Actions speak louder than words.

[the_paul]

vote the paul while I'm waiting for those less active to post like biet, missa. U say I have the more important mafia role, then why am I asking myself to be a main focus? Read it however ud like but noticeably ur list is primarily those players (excluding myself) who have posted (or have attempted) material worth analyzing. And sorry I missed the reason why u stuck voth in there, could repeat if u want. If it's cuz a NL, excuse me but u did the same thing regardless of what u say. Actions speak louder than words.

I did the same thing, but my 2nd post (first was expressing surprise that the game started) laid out exactly what I was going to do. And I did it. Exalt laid out exactly why he believed what I did was wrong and scummy, and that he was going to do the opposite. He didn't. My vote was inconsequential, I think I voted for midoent or something, rather than being on either your wagon or Rodney's. There were 2 other people with inconsequential votes, and nobody is paying any attention to them, despite that being one of the main "reasons" that Exalt suspects me. If that is a criteria for suspicion, why have Voth and Biet not received the same scrutiny? I don't find the fact that Voth went for a no lynch suspicious, I find the vocal people, namely you and Exalt, treating my vote that I called out ahead of time differently than Voth or Biet's, who have yet to give an explanation for why they went that route. Biet said he was inactive so maybe that was his reasoning though, I'm not 100% on that.

[the_paul]

If i was scum on the verge of being lynched why on earth would i paint a target on my back with a night kill like that?



Reading your posts thats exactly what youre doing, talking in circles. There is no substance in any of it, you two are just bickering and twisting each others words back and forth not contributing a damn thing besides bringing up the same conversation that distracted town from pursuing a lynch last phase. You are both guilty of this. Is that your play here paul? Are you trying to distract town? I love how this attack on exalt comes right after the day phase is over and votes cant be changed. Why did you wait until the night phase to start pushing on him? Because you knew you'd be safe?

On a side note i need to start seeing these lurkers speak up with some actual content. We've posted our lists and kept conversation moving, wheres yours? Missa? Biet? Zeebu? Midoent

You're right, Exalt and I did end up talking in circles. Apart from ixt's day 1 roleclaiming contributions, Exalt and I have been far and away the most active participants. As a result of being suspicious of each other, it turned into finger pointing at each other. Since hardly anyone is presenting anything, it is easy to become a whirlwind of finger pointing.

I waited until night phase for a couple of reasons. First of all, I actually expected day phase to last about an hour or 2 longer than it did. I was kind of surprised when it ended, and I was expecting somebody to wait it out and switch right before the phase ended just to force a lynch. And after his stance beforehand, I expected that person to be Exalt. I also didn't want to give anyone an out. Waiting till the phase was over meant that everyone acted the way they saw fit without pressure one way or another. Besides, I'm still of the opinion that a lot can be learned from day 1 without a necessary lynch.

I'm not trying to distract town, for the most part I think I've done the opposite. I haven't made any wild leaps, and I haven't tried to drop a roleclaim to leverage anything. I have used a lot of exact quotes from people, and presented theories that I think fit the quotations. That doesn't mean I'm 100% right, and that doesn't mean everyone has to agree with how I see the pieces fit. I use the quotations to show how I got to where I'm thinking with no chance for a misinterpretation.

That's what is so frustrating for me this round. If you don't agree with the conclusions I've drawn, tell me why. What part of the quotations that I've painstakingly put together don't fit what I've said? You don't trust me? Good, you shouldn't trust anybody yet, because nobody has earned it. Tell me why you're voting for me. Give me a solid reason, quote something where I said something suspect, do something. Right now votes are on me because I pursued a no-lynch scenario. I was very upfront about this, and I followed through. Why is my vote suspicious, but Voth and Biet have largely flown under the radar? Why is me doing what I said somehow more suspicious than people doing the opposite of what they said they would do? Exalt stuck his neck out to save ixt, that is irrefutable. You can take his reasoning or not, that's your choice, but he gave a reason for his vote. Zeebu, field, and soilderz (RIP) did not give much of a reason for why they voted for you at the time, and certainly have not defended why they didn't switch votes to pursue a lynch. What made them trust ixt? Why did they suspect you so much on day 1? What made them so sure, with the majority of people saying no lynching is a mistake, that you were scum and ixt was innocent?

On the flipside, what made Willby, Missa, Undercut, and Midoent vote for ixt over you? What in particular made them stick to their guns despite the impending no lynch decision? And more importantly, why does nobody care to hear these answers?

There was a setting on the old forums where you could see how many times people had posted in each thread, but I'm having trouble finding it and I'm not willing to go back through 6 pages again, sorry. But I would be looking for contributions from Willby. He was fairly active in the usually useless early phase of day 1, but then he disappeared in the wake of hurricane ixt. His next appearance of substance came right after night phase, and only came after I seriously questioned Exalt. Why is this? Also, why would questioning Exalt automatically make me a suspect? If you think Exalt has proven anything to anyone, then you've never played Mafia before. His reasoning for voting for me was that I was accusing Exalt, but that I hadn't made any definitive scum list. Well, neither had he. And since the early phases on day 1, only a handful of people had. What makes my actions different? What had I done to set myself apart from everybody else who hadn't lynched any scum (12 other players), and those who hadn't made a serious, thought out scum list (conservatively 6 other players, probably more)? I called Exalt out, that was the only difference, and the suspicion didn't come until after the fact. And again, nobody cares.

I can't even remember a post from Undercut that had any reasoning in it, and certainly one hasn't come recently, and nobody cares. What has Missa and midoent added to the conversation? Nobody. Cares.

Why?

[the_paul]

By the way, I understand that you called out the lurkers. It's partway through day 2 phase, and you're one of the first to do so, explicitly, by name. Yet I already have 2 votes on me, and nobody cares to hear justification or theories from the others, they're just waiting for more votes on me. And nobody is noticing any of this until now.

U say I have the more important mafia role, then why am I asking myself to be a main focus?

I'm not going to go into this too much, but I'm assuming that by this you mean you asked to be investigated day 1 after you role claimed? It is not a 100% fact, but I think even Exalt would agree that calling for a town power role to expose themselves and investigate you day 1 is a gigantic red flag. You say you're new to this, so it could just be a rookie mistake where it sounds good in theory, but is usually a catastrophe in practice. Regardless of the motive, if this is what you mean then you are not making the point that you think you are.

[Undercut]

I voted for ixt because I was confused as to why Voth seemed to want to jump ship at the last second to avoid lynching him. It was fairly obvious I was going to vote that way because like i did in fact say in my posts, the bandwagon on rodney seemed to form out of nowhere and I didn't understand it. I wanted to see if Voth would stick to his guns and avoid lynching ixt while hoping that a train formed on me for holding off on voting until the end of the phase. I wasn't trying to avoid a lynch I just thought that ixt was a way better option than rodney was.

Vote: Voth

I still just don't understand what he was trying to accomplish by swapping off ixt and on to me at the last second. It seems incredibly fishy to me, and he was obviously trying to avoid being tied to something that was about to happen.

[ixt]

well then sorry if i made a similar mistake to last time. and for the rec my vote is by no means fixed if someone (most notably those who havent said much) seems very shady for sure my vote will be slapped on them

[the_paul]

I voted for ixt because I was confused as to why Voth seemed to want to jump ship at the last second to avoid lynching him. It was fairly obvious I was going to vote that way because like i did in fact say in my posts, the bandwagon on rodney seemed to form out of nowhere and I didn't understand it. I wanted to see if Voth would stick to his guns and avoid lynching ixt while hoping that a train formed on me for holding off on voting until the end of the phase. I wasn't trying to avoid a lynch I just thought that ixt was a way better option than rodney was.

Vote: Voth

I still just don't understand what he was trying to accomplish by swapping off ixt and on to me at the last second. It seems incredibly fishy to me, and he was obviously trying to avoid being tied to something that was about to happen.

Progress! And an excellent point about Voth that I completely missed. Now we?re cooking. Looking forward to the other explanations

[ixt]

I voted for ixt because I was confused as to why Voth seemed to want to jump ship at the last second to avoid lynching him. It was fairly obvious I was going to vote that way because like i did in fact say in my posts, the bandwagon on rodney seemed to form out of nowhere and I didn't understand it. I wanted to see if Voth would stick to his guns and avoid lynching ixt while hoping that a train formed on me for holding off on voting until the end of the phase. I wasn't trying to avoid a lynch I just thought that ixt was a way better option than rodney was.

Vote: Voth

I still just don't understand what he was trying to accomplish by swapping off ixt and on to me at the last second. It seems incredibly fishy to me, and he was obviously trying to avoid being tied to something that was about to happen.

over the fact i already stated my role while (dunno if i missed) rodney didnt say anything about his alignment? i mean sure u can read voth's action either way i agree. i guess its natural to feel animosity towards the guy who voted for u (similar as i seen last game). and as i stated before, notice the difference in the people who voted for me vs rodney. those on me havent given any legit reason other than "oh, his claim is false" "scummiest play so far...herp derp..." while those on rodney are those who have provided insight to discuss and debate. now, this isnt an accusation to rodney more to show i am more town oriented in this perspective. and dont think i forgot u midoent...slapping a last vote on like that "seems scummiest play so far" although u have talked more than last game, my initial good thoughts of u being more likely town are down the drain, good suspicion of this being a mafia sketchy move.

[the_paul]

over the fact i already stated my role while (dunno if i missed) rodney didnt say anything about his alignment? i mean sure u can read voth's action either way i agree. i guess its natural to feel animosity towards the guy who voted for u (similar as i seen last game). and as i stated before, notice the difference in the people who voted for me vs rodney. those on me havent given any legit reason other than "oh, his claim is false" "scummiest play so far...herp derp..." while those on rodney are those who have provided insight to discuss and debate. now, this isnt an accusation to rodney more to show i am more town oriented in this perspective. and dont think i forgot u midoent...slapping a last vote on like that "seems scummiest play so far" although u have talked more than last game, my initial good thoughts of u being more likely town are down the drain, good suspicion of this being a mafia sketchy move.

Well, to be fair, some of the things you?ve done early on are traditionally (on this forum) mafia moves, which is usually enough for some warranted day 1 votes. Since then, more of the people who voted for Rodney have stayed involved and spoken up more, despite the fact that this game as a whole has been a boring lurkfest. I don?t think anyone will disagree that there are some egregious lurkers who aren?t getting any attention pointed their way for one reason or another.

[ixt]

this i cant disagree on, hence why theres much to be desired with some certain people already cued numerous times

[Undercut]

over the fact i already stated my role while (dunno if i missed) rodney didnt say anything about his alignment? i mean sure u can read voth's action either way i agree. i guess its natural to feel animosity towards the guy who voted for u (similar as i seen last game).

He could have swapped his vote and tried to start a wagon on anyone, it doesn't change the fact that he clearly didn't want his hand in something.

[ixt]

His hand in da cooki jar?

[Soilderz]

The anger causes pain inside,
Too deep to understand.
And the pain, in turn, will cause,
More malice to my hand.

The scourge I lay upon you now,
You surely cannot break.
This curse will last for on and on,
You've made a grave mistake.

[Exalt]

The_paul, I'm still waiting to hear your justification as to why you wanted a No Lynch on Day 1. You claimed it was basic math, but that was proven to be wrong, so you do have other 'town' reasons, right? What were they? You keep ignoring the question, so I will keep asking until you answer or get lynched. Don't blame anyone else with your answer either. Say exactly why you wanted a No Lynch and how you think it has helped town in this game. You can only control your vote, yet you chose to not vote anyone, so you should directly explain why.

Please answer, because you have refused to answer any questions given to you, and you are like a monkey throwing shit at the wall, hoping for something to stick. You have thrown names around here and there, but you haven't built a case on any of them yourself. You have continuously been asking others to do the scum hunting for you by hoping they ask questions of players of your choosing, rather than you doing so yourself. You even keep mentioning 'post count' as if that means anything at all. Substance is what matters, and you haven't given any, especially not by your own standards when you criticize mine and others.

Your refusal to answer any question that could possibly implicate you has been obvious to me. Your flailing around trying to get something to stick on anyone you can without you putting in the work has also been obvious. It looks to me exactly like scum would be doing, because you cannot fake a case easily, so you are trying to do whatever it is you can to get someone else to do it for you. I see that you've tried to fake one on me, but it's literally just you ignoring the facts and misrepresenting what I said without any proof to back up those claims. Your weaksauce case on me can be so easily refuted that even Rodney just shot you down, and Rodney knows I have been gunning for him the most so far. You have also been told by Rodney, ixt, myself, and WillBy (possibly more) just on page 6 alone that you have not scum hunted or pushed anyone Day 1, have yet to give a list of scum, and you continue to not do anything helpful (unless you think misrepresenting things I've said and done as such), yet all you can seem to do is say "well, this person over here kinda did the same thing if you squint real hard to interpret it as such!!11!!!"

You have continuously side-stepped every question directed toward you with excuses and finger pointing at someone else, so I'm asking that if you are town, please stop finger pointing when you are asked direct questions about your own motives and actions. Don't blame every other player for the choices you've made.

Oh, and I'll repeat my question again, in case you ignore it once more: You claimed you wanted a No Lynch due to basic math, but that was proven to be wrong almost immediately, so what were your other reasons?

[Exalt]

I'm not voting Voth today, because while his vote switch was really suspect, he at least admitted he screwed up and didn't really mean to. Really, I can say the same about Undercut as well. I will concede that the day phase ended abruptly, and I don't think any of us expected it to end as sudden as it did. That's a decent excuse for a lot of players as to why the NL stood, but I still want Paul's reasoning, since he was the only one who directly said he wanted that result. I want a logical explanation, since I tried my best to show him long ago why I thought his stance was fundamentally wrong. His only excuse I saw was math, so I used math. I then added a bunch of other reasons as well, which he seemed to concede, so I am really interested in what his reasons were to stick with that result. He hasn't given any, and I think it's justified to demand them at this point. He won't admit he was wrong, so I'm assuming he really does have some good excuses if he really is town. In my view, his actions as a whole (not just voting) haven't lined up with what I expect from a town player, and I've seen a lot of bad town play in the past that could potentially write off dumb mistakes. Ixt's play is a good example of that, yet Paul's is not. I've yet to see town play as he has in the past, so I'm really interested in hearing him actually defend himself without him blaming everyone else for what he chose to do.