Mafia: What a time to be alive!

[Soilderz]

Wait, so I'm a little confused, did I get RB'd by Rodney N1 and thats why I died? I thought mafia had a strongman when I died even tho I protected myself.

[Exalt]

I'll post all actions later, but here's something to chew on:
why would field's roleblock be stronger than rodney's? Or vice versa?

If a roleblocker is roleblocked, his action cannot get through. Had scum roleblocked field and field roleblocked scum's NK, field's roleblock wouldn't go through. That's how the sequence works. If both roleblockers block each other, both get blocked.

Example:

Mafia roleblocker blocks town roleblocker who blocks mafia kill - kill should go through

Mafia roleblocker performs kill and blocks town roleblocker, who blocks mafia roleblocker - kill blocked

Roleblockers can normally be roleblocked. It's your game, your rules, but I think it's important to let everyone know how night action sequence of events should go, at least when they are different from the accepted norm. Otherwise, it just confuses everyone for no reason, and it's not really good for either town or mafia. If you give all protective roles the ability to protect themselves for instance (widely regarded as not being possible), then it should be noted in your first mod post that this is possible, as are other rule changes. It allows scum to play things differently, and it makes town think of different reasons as to why things occur as they do.

Also, Mafia Wiki gives this info:

There is no consensus as to what happens when multiple Roleblockers exist and target each other (or with similar roles such as Jailkeeper). The prevailing opinion is that Roleblocks are resolved in such a way that conflicts are minimized. The other opinion is that all Roleblocks are simultaneous; thus everyone targeted by a Roleblocker is Roleblocked.

Here are a few examples to illustrate what the differences are, and thus why the moderator must choose well in advance how these kinds of actions would be resolved if multiple Roleblockers are in the game.

• Suppose Roleblocker A blocks Roleblocker B, who blocks Roleblocker C, who blocks Roleblocker D, who blocks Doctor E. If Roleblocks are resolved in such a way that conflicts are minimized, A blocks B, preventing B from blocking C, thus C blocks D, preventing D from blocking the Doctor - in short, the Doctor's protection would have an effect. If all Roleblocks are simultaneous, the only player who is NOT technically Roleblocked is A; the Doctor would be blocked.

• Suppose a Town Roleblocker and a Mafia Roleblocker target each other at Night. Who is Roleblocked?
  • Suppose that the Mafia Roleblocker in this example is also performing the Mafia kill. Does the kill succeed?
  • Suppose that a Tracker investigates the Town Roleblocker in this example. What result does the Tracker get?

Most moderators opt for arbitrary tie-breakers in ambiguous situations like these.

[Exalt]

As for my thoughts on the rest of the game...

I think Mafia's greatest mistake was that No Vote from Paul and BiET. Voth screwed himself by doing it as well. It was just too suspicious, and it directly caused Paul to be investigated Night 1. After his lynch, I had pretty much guessed the entire Mafia team right off the bat except for Zeebu, and Zeebu made his lynch inevitable through his own inactivity regardless. That No Vote thing really put the spotlight on both Paul and BiET, made Rodney look extremely suspicious after Paul flipped, and it got Voth killed as well. It basically caused the domino effect that led to such a quick sequence of scum lynches.

I also think Rodney could have afforded to roleblock WillBy or midoent instead of me with the Mafia Doc around. While it was frustrating to no end to be blocked all game long by him, it also directly helped Town's investigative roles do their thing without problems.

I'd also say the first domino was Rodney jumping on the WillBy wagon at the very start of the game, because it felt out of place to me. That's why I was so suspicious of him from the start. Paul, BiET, and Voth not voting for Rodney on Day 1 while claiming ixt looks scummy (mostly Paul saying that) was a huge tell as well. Nobody would have faulted them for voting ixt there, because half of town was voting ixt, and Zeebu was even voting for Rodney, but Paul and BiET really screwed up there. They linked themselves to Rodney through that No Vote, and it made Paul's Day 2 accusations against ixt scummy as hell in the process. It ended up not mattering due to the WillBy investigation Night 1, but had that not happened, Paul still was likely to be lynched for his Day 1 action, which would have caused the same domino effect with BIET, Rodney, and Voth as the investigation did. Long story short, it was too easy to connect the dots, and it directly screwed them over by not taking that free kill.

I'll also say that it didn't help Rodney, Biet, or Zeebu at all that they were so inactive. Paul made a go of it at least, and he probably would have been fine had he voted ixt Day 1. The inactiveness reallly screws scum over in every single game, because even when there is no evidence to go on, town eventually always goes to the 'Lynch All Lurkers' phase. Being inactive essentially puts suspicion on yourself by default, whereas at least when you speak, you only get caught through your own mistakes or blind luck. Give me the second option any day, because the first is an autoloss without being carried by teammates.

This is all just my $0.02 though, I'd like to see everyone's night actions if possible. What was the deal with Voth's NKs never happening? Why didn't Rodney die Night 2? Why didn't scum get a kill the last night? Who made the NK Night 3 against field, Voth or Scum, and who was the other target?

[fiS]

This still confuses me, because I shot at Rodney the same night you Roleblocked him. Rodney claims he was saved by the Mafia Doc only on Night 1, yet you blocked him on Night 2. I shot him on Night 2, so what happened? Why didn't he die? Was this a mod mistake? His roleblock of me should not have gone through, because you roleblocked him. This is why I concluded he couldn't have been the roleblocker, because there's no way my kill should have not gone through without the Mafia Doc protecting him that night. I still can't figure out what happened here.

I'll post all actions later, but here's something to chew on:
why would field's roleblock be stronger than rodney's? Or vice versa?

[Exalt]

WillBy confirmed in the thread that I told him I roleblocked rodney on n2. Exalt pointed to that confirmation and concluded that rodney lied in his fake claim. Undercut did point it out again and good thing you stayed on rodney. The point is, you gotta reread the thread, especially after townies are killed. You know that they were not lying in what they were saying. (Townies shouldn't lie, but they needn't say everything they know either, until it is necessary to do so).

This still confuses me, because I shot at Rodney the same night you Roleblocked him. Rodney claims he was saved by the Mafia Doc only on Night 1, yet you blocked him on Night 2. I shot him on Night 2, so what happened? Why didn't he die? Was this a mod mistake? His roleblock of me should not have gone through, because you roleblocked him. This is why I concluded he couldn't have been the roleblocker, because there's no way my kill should have not gone through without the Mafia Doc protecting him that night. I still can't figure out what happened here.

[ixt]

my two cents on notable performances: (thanks jessup for influence)

Midoent- although vocally u said u were unsure how to proceed and relied on willby for instruct, the information you provided from BIET onward was critical in leading town to victory. a fairly well-played effort broski, nice job---A

Willby- a fairly gutsy move early on, jumping out in the dark when we were still unsure if there were any defense/blocking roles to save your neck. Nevertheless, was the spark town needed to start off with the catch of a fairly important mafia role, their source of information. When a veteran, always a veteran.---A

Rodney- an admirable effort using Vengeful Nurse to keep town off your trail until we decided to put full focus onto you. Although throughout the game continuously received doubt, given the conditions being able to survive till day 5 is a pretty remarkable effort. ---B-

Myself- somewhat of a half-mistake early on, proves i still got much to learn as an amateur much like mido. however, this mistake was an honest one as it provided some info for town in how the wagons formed and correctly pinpointed those who voted on me as opposed to those on rodney. also, i correctly voted for mafia and was the initiator for the last push on zeebu. ---B-

Zeebu- considering his given role, i would have given him a higher grade had he remained slightly more active, as it seemed many of us recognized him to be able to be "put aside" due to to the voting scheme. However, due to gradual inactivity, pretty much only one word can sum up his performance: disappointing. Who knows how the game could have gone if he contributed more and attempted to sway town perspective? ---C

Exalt- a fair performance by another seasoned veteran, although he never managed to fire his ability out (#rekt by rodney). from the get-go jumped out to be the guiding light for town as most recognized him to be pro-town from the start. was the first to point out the voting scheme of Day 1, and made good call outs of the likes of voth and rodney. ---A-

Voth- this performance was a tad more difficult to gauge. realistically speaking, in a reasonable sense, a serial killer would jump onto a wagon to shield himself/herself from suspicion, but he jumped off (for whatever reason) and was the only person to vote Under with very little remaining time that nobody else could consider his doubts. And after he himself recognized the contradiction he made by whether having or not having a NL. As a result, townie roles voiced strong suspicion on his actions thereafter. ---C+

Undercut- flew underneath the radar quietly enough and managed to survive till the very end. given the allotted roles, a surviving town cop is pretty remarkable, but most of the leading discussion to capture mafia were led by willby. nevertheless, its another ggwp. ---B

BIET- a fairly disappoining performance sums it up. relatively low participation, and nothing in retaliation or attempt to sway town view once caught, NOTHING AT ALL. provided some input early on, but simply disappeared onward till his death. ---C-

Missa- another peformance a tad difficult to phrase into words. first day slapped a mafia-perspective vote, then seemed to melt into the shadows until mysteriously reappearing when willby mentioned an informant with tracker info (although it turned out it wasnt herself lol). However, she DID follow town votes to lynch a mafia member each day, and my doubts somewhat subsided due to rodney's dying reactions slapping his vote on missa. i guess like us other amateurs, still could improve but still a well-played game. ---B-

The_paul- although straight up caught by willby, his early exchanges with exalt seemed to put him off the radar at the start. However, it was from exalt or willby's questioning (i forget which) where he avoided specific questions to give rise to some doubts. Nevertheless, had he not been investigated i feel it was a fair performance at the start given by the limited amount of info before willby's daring play. ---B

Soilderz- it always sucks being the first one killed, and having to wait the longest time till another game starts. nevertheless, was recognized fairly quick to be pro-town early like exalt, and correctly voted his only vote on mafia member rodney. but unfortunately due to limited input still have to slightly penalize the grade, but it was a good overall performance with the time you had. ---B-

Field- more or less the same as soilderz here, but survived a bit longer ^.^. ---B


Given the end results on role distribution and considering experience levels, my MVP goes to midoent. Although received a few doubts going his way early, managed to stay anonymous until managing to link up with willby to become willby's "2nd life" when willby was killed, Spoke up at the correct time to oust BIET, as lurkers are indeed difficult to accuse with limited information. Provided the continual spark when the most vocal members all were killed, so town hope was not lost. GG

[field]

I highly enjoyed getting saved by mafia doctor on N1 and then roleblocking exalt every night until i killed him LOL

gg guys, had me fking flailing from day 1

Did you guys send tp to kill on N1?

[field]

What i don't understand is why zeebu voted for rodney

To blend in probably. Rodney was caught in a lie. Defending rodney would implicate him. I personally didn't suspect zeebu until rodney died and game didn't end. Then again zeebu barely posted anything lol.

[ixt]

Looking forward to the night action summary

[field]

If that's the case must have been someone else first suggesting the idea. Wouldn't suggest it myself

WillBy confirmed in the thread that I told him I roleblocked rodney on n2. Exalt pointed to that confirmation and concluded that rodney lied in his fake claim. Undercut did point it out again and good thing you stayed on rodney. The point is, you gotta reread the thread, especially after townies are killed. You know that they were not lying in what they were saying. (Townies shouldn't lie, but they needn't say everything they know either, until it is necessary to do so).

[RoDNeY]

When I heard you role blocked Exalt a couple times, I died. Poor guy was absolutely nerd raging over you & his ability lol

lmao it was so gratifying

[ixt]

What i don't understand is why zeebu voted for rodney

[ixt]

Gg everyone! Thank you for hosting fish!

It was fun playing with you all again.
I'm disappointed that Zeebu didn't participate more... while at same time killing the active townies. But at least new players (Missa/ixt) got to stay in the game and get a better idea of how the game is played.

Having said that, I sincerely apologise to town for not lynching ixt day 1 . You had me worried after Exalt was killed at night. You should've reread his posts and saw that he mentioned I roleblocked rodney n2 (which means Rodney lied in his fake claim).Shouldn't have been thinking about it lol. But I hope you learned from your mistakes this game.

After day 1, I had very good feelings about Exalt (we were pretty much reading the game the same way), and I suspected Rodney/voth/tp (though I said voth/tp were town-leaning on d1 so they don't kill me lol). During the night I was killed, I almost rb'd you voth. I was torn between you and Rodney, but thought you might've been godfather so I ended up roleblocking him.

If you haven't signed up yet for the next game, please do and invite your friends:
https://forums.trenchwars.com/forum/...-working-title

Hoping to start game very soon, either tomorrow or day after. Would like to get one more person to make it 13 players.

If that's the case must have been someone else first suggesting the idea. Wouldn't suggest it myself

[Missa]

I highly enjoyed getting saved by mafia doctor on N1 and then roleblocking exalt every night until i killed him LOL

gg guys, had me fking flailing from day 1

When I heard you role blocked Exalt a couple times, I died. Poor guy was absolutely nerd raging over you & his ability lol

[WillBy]

Final Vote Count:
Zeebu - 4 (Undercut, ixt, midoent, Missa)
No Vote from: Zeebu

Zeebu has been sleeping all day and had to be carried to the gallows with a wheelchair.
He didn't even realize he was about to die. No last words for us.

With his death, the remaining Villagers were finally done with it. Peace is restored - Zeebu was the Mafia's Godfather.

Game Over - Town wins.

I will post more tomorrow, all roles and actions as well as pre and post game thoughts.

Good game town. Mido heroed it. Thanks for host fiser!