You knew it was coming...

[froedrick]

I was told by my born-again Christian friend (a friendship that's quickly deteriorating) that I was going to hell for labeling "The Passion of the Christ" a shitty movie. Religious fanatics need to leave me the fuck alone and go meet their beloved god already.

That's all I care to contribute to this discussion at this point in time. Carry on with your bad selves.

That movie was a stinkbomb man. Oh I hated it with the passion of my christ.

[bloodzombie]

I kinda wanna see it out of curiosity, but I don't want it to make more money.

[Pandagirl!]

I think it's an excellent movie. Very moving and emotional.

[Sarien]

No, actually the author (Lee Strobel) was a hardcore atheist. The whole book is him going and talking to religious people (not just any old people though, ones who know what they're talking about and have studied the Bible and such), trying to disprove God's existence, talking about things like why there is suffering in the world and things like that. It isn't a one sided book - because Strobel was an atheist when he was gathering information for the book. You see him arguing out his side of the case to all the ministers and things. Quite an interesting read.

This sounds so suspect in my head. As if my bullshit detector were going off in my mind like a submarine diving klaxon. It could be just the way I'm interpreting it but when you say "because Strobel was an atheist when he was etcetc", the keyword is "was", which makes me think "Oh boy crappy feely touchy ball clamp feel good he finds jesus in the end" book.

If it is? No thanks. I'd rather watch Touched by an Angel. Same thing, less time.

Oh, and about the Jesus Chainsaw Massacre, by all accounts I've heard from people I trust and respect (ie not weak stomached blubbering jesus freaks) it was boring and pointless.

[Richard Creager]

christ christ christ
christ
christ christ

[Saturn V]

This sounds so suspect in my head. As if my bullshit detector were going off in my mind like a submarine diving klaxon. It could be just the way I'm interpreting it but when you say "because Strobel was an atheist when he was etcetc", the keyword is "was", which makes me think "Oh boy crappy feely touchy ball clamp feel good he finds jesus in the end" book.

If it is? No thanks. I'd rather watch Touched by an Angel. Same thing, less time.

Oh, and about the Jesus Chainsaw Massacre, by all accounts I've heard from people I trust and respect (ie not weak stomached blubbering jesus freaks) it was boring and pointless.

I've read both the aforementioned books--nothing that special. Didn't really prove anything to me, either.

And I used to be a Christian.

[Saturn V]

3 out of the 9 Iraqi people I know are Christian. :P

Wow, 33%! Chew on this:

Religion in Iraq
Muslim: 97% (Shia, 60-65%; Sunni, 32-37%)
Christian or other: 3%

[Bioture]

I've read both the aforementioned books--nothing that special. Didn't really prove anything to me, either.

And I used to be a Christian.

I'm sorry that you lost your faith, really. I've been there. But there is more to attaining spirituality than following rules set forth in religions. And with that in mind, perhaps those books were nothing special because you've lost sight of Jesus? After all, "for the non-believer, no proof is sufficient."

Just a thought.

[Saturn V]

I'm sorry that you lost your faith, really. I've been there. But there is more to attaining spirituality than following rules set forth in religions. And with that in mind, perhaps those books were nothing special because you've lost sight of Jesus? After all, "for the non-believer, no proof is sufficient."

Just a thought.

I won't bore you with the story... but what it boils down to is I started seeking my own answers instead of accepting what was being shoved down my throat since birth.

And thinking back on it, I never really was a Christian. I just went along with it because if I didn't, the people in my city would have looked down on me.

But--ugh, it's complicated. There were times where I would be uh.. very Christian like (hell, I even attended the first SEMP), but waaaay deep down I felt I was lying to myself and everyone else. I wanted to say, "Hey guys! I don't believe what you believe, sorry!" but that would've lead to endless arguments that I didn't need.

It wasn't who I was. I've finally reached a point where I don't have to lie to myself and pretend to be something I'm not. I'll seek my own answers, whether it is in religion or science. And if I end back at Christianity, so be it, but I want to get there on my own. Logic is my guide. I don't want to have people telling me Christianity is the truth, and if I don't accept it I could face eternal separation from a god that I didn't believe in to begin with.

Fuck. Did that make any sense at all?

[Subjugation]

There is no way on earth that this thread can be done right without having The Enforcer around to tell us all how we should feel.

He's still around? Uh oh

Btw, hello mr sarien.

[Bioture]

I won't bore you with the story... but what it boils down to is I started seeking my own answers instead of accepting what was being shoved down my throat since birth.

And thinking back on it, I never really was a Christian. I just went along with it because if I didn't, the people in my city would have looked down on me.

But--ugh, it's complicated. There were times where I would be uh.. very Christian like (hell, I even attended the first SEMP), but waaaay deep down I felt I was lying to myself and everyone else. I wanted to say, "Hey guys! I don't believe what you believe, sorry!" but that would've lead to endless arguments that I didn't need.

It wasn't who I was. I've finally reached a point where I don't have to lie to myself and pretend to be something I'm not. I'll seek my own answers, whether it is in religion or science. And if I end back at Christianity, so be it, but I want to get there on my own. Logic is my guide. I don't want to have people telling me Christianity is the truth, and if I don't accept it I could face eternal separation from a god that I didn't believe in to begin with.

Fuck. Did that make any sense at all?

It makes sense. However when you seek your own "logical" answers, it tends to seperate you from God even more - if you accept the fact (as I do) that religion/spirituality is completely illogical to begin with. The crazy thing is that I was at where you are right now about two years ago, but I was never spoon fed religion growing up, so I guess you can say I'm one of those more "liberal" christians. And yes, I do hate Jehova's witnesses.

But if you think about it, christianity (and all religions associated with Jesus) could have been completely wiped out if the Jews or the Romans produced the body of Jesus after he died. So in that respect, the resurrection of Jesus was either true or some crazy hoax that has lasted for about 2000 years.

I found this site to be interesting and from a fairly bipartisan perspective:
http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/...les/josh2.html
Edit: after reading the article, I've realized its biased like a motherfucker. But its still interesting.

[SpiderMage]

It makes sense. However when you seek your own "logical" answers, it tends to seperate you from God even more - if you accept the fact (as I do) that religion/spirituality is completely illogical to begin with. The crazy thing is that I was at where you are right now about two years ago, but I was never spoon fed religion growing up, so I guess you can say I'm one of those more "liberal" christians. And yes, I do hate Jehova's witnesses.

But if you think about it, christianity (and all religions associated with Jesus) could have been completely wiped out if the Jews or the Romans produced the body of Jesus after he died. So in that respect, the resurrection of Jesus was either true or some crazy hoax that has lasted for about 2000 years.

I found this site to be interesting and from a fairly bipartisan perspective:
http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/...les/josh2.html
Edit: after reading the article, I've realized its biased like a motherfucker. But its still interesting.

But then Bio, here's a question for you. If god created man, and man created logic, wouldn't that boil down to god created logic, since he gave man the ability to form thought. So, wouldn't that mean god should be logical and therefore religion should be logical as well?

[code]

1ight my friend, you missed the point.

The point is, what makes Christianity right, that only if you believe in god you will go to heaven, when there are several other religions that say the samething. What makes it that Christianity is the only right way and everything else is wrong? Besides the bible, which wants you to believe it so tells you it's the only way, what makes it right? Why can't Christians be open minded that there could be other ways than just one? Because that in its way, eliminates the free will, because fear will change someone's mind and faith and so will single exposure. So again, why is the bible the only way? And if you say "just look around you at the Earth you live on as your answer", well you can look at a tree and be like "Venus created that, Zeus created the sky, etc etc", so... for the what, fourth time, what makes Christianity the only right way?

I haven't read much of this thread but I read this and some of the begining posts. In my opinion there are many people who will be saved, there are many different religions all around the world. Different people grow up with different belief's according to where they were born and what their familys believe in. Most country's have a majority of a certain religion, common sense says if you're born there that you probably will embrace this religion. Who's to say that if you're born a buddist that you're going to not be saved? God is different things to different religions, but in actuallity all aiming tward the same goal the same 'one' the same 'creator'. God isn't judgemental, god is enlightened and im sure has pleanty of love and understanding for all other religions. I think the main thing is that whatever you believe in, you have good moral and treat other people around you as you'd want to be treated. You know who to respect and have common sense as to whats wrong and right. These are good people in 'God's' eyes and I believe will be saved.

This is just my short outlook on this, I don't want to go too in depth because I think people argue way too much over religion and what certain people believe. The main thing is that whatever you believe in, if that resinates with you on all levels then you're on the right track.

[Troll King]

But then Bio, here's a question for you. If god created man, and man created logic, wouldn't that boil down to god created logic, since he gave man the ability to form thought. So, wouldn't that mean god should be logical and therefore religion should be logical as well?

Hold on a second: you're falling under the same fallacy that Bio was explaining. You're trying to use logic there (and even then the reasoning is a little sketchy) to try to explain something that cannot be explained through logic. His post already answers your question.

[froedrick]

Wow, 33%! Chew on this:

There's 900 million Muslims in the world. who cares if they are in Iraq or not...