racism: have you seen this ?

[schope]

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/SPORT/fo...ism/index.html

Police arrest player after cup tie

SAO PAULO, Brazil -- An Argentine soccer player was detained after a Copa Libertadores match in Brazil on Wednesday because of alleged racist insults.


Quilmes defender Leandro Desabato was escorted off the field by police and later arrested after allegedly insulting Sao Paulo striker Grafite with racist remarks in Sao Paulo's 3-1 victory over Quilmes in Group 3 of the South American club competition.

Grafite and Desabato clashed in the 44th minute at Morumbi stadium in Sao Paulo.

The incident followed Desabato's alleged racist remarks, police agent Oswaldo Nico Goncalves said.

Desabato was expected to be charged with racist insults, and could face from one to three years in prison if convicted, Goncalves said.

Goncalves said he ordered the arrest because the insults were caught by television cameras and because Grafite made a formal complaint against the Argentine player during halftime.

Desabato was escorted into the locker room after the match, and then was taken to a police department for interrogation. Goncalves said Desabato was expected to spend the night in jail.

Grafite ended up pushing Desabato during the altercation and was ejected by Uruguayan referee Martin Vazquez. Quilmes midfielder Carlos Arano was sent off because he also got involved in the altercation.

Grafite previously said that he was subjected to racism during Sao Paulo's first encounter with Quilmes in Argentina.

"There's no need for all this chaos," said Quilmes coach Gustavo Alfaro who confirmed the arrest. "A football match should start and finish on the pitch.

"This has all been handled the wrong way. It was an unnecessary spectacle -- (for the police) to come on to the field in front of 50,000 or 60,000 people when the player's pulse-rate is still high, he's just lost a game .

"There should be a different way of dealing with this . Nobody has benefitted from this."

Be sure when you come to Brazil that we deal racial question as something serious. GG stupid argentine

PS: (Im studying to be a lawyer so i can say that if we could guess for sure what he was saying he would be arrested without bail. He spent 2 nights at jail and payed the bail).


So what do you think ?

[PaulOakenfold]

I know this is extremely ignorant, but what type of racial comments can they make when they both come from South America?

[schope]

I know this is extremely ignorant, but what type of racial comments can they make when they both come from South America?

the Brazillian player is black, we had black slavery here, argentina didnt.

[PaulOakenfold]

Oh he was BLACk, gotcha. I thought they were both Latino.

[schope]

Oh he was BLACk, gotcha. I thought they were both Latino.

yes they are but many south americans from south countries feel as if they were "europeans" cause of their racial inheritage(is that correct ? lol) and few mix with native americans(unlike central american for ex mexican)

[Arikel]

Well at least next time he will think twice about insulting someone based on his/her skin colour... some countries should adopt a similar way to deal with that type of persons! perhaps racial descrimination would stop or be reduced.

[Subjugation]

I think what schope is talking about is similar to the issue of racism in other Latin American countries, like Mexico or the Caribbean.

During the period of colonization in the Columbean-era, slavery was a big part of establishing systems of agriculture, and building communities. The Indians who survived the diseases the Euros brought weren't too hip on becoming enslaved and this led to much social tension, as well as outright warfare.

Eventually the Catholic Church decided to allow the Euros to marry the Natives, as a way to both create peace between the two cultures, and through an increased birthrate, create more stable, powerful, and widespread Catholic communities by increased population through childbirth. However, it was still forbidden to marry the black slaves.

Obviously, racism still persists in America, but it's felt even moreso in Latin America. Racism toward both the surviving native Indians, and Blacks as well. I didn't realize it was so bad they decided to legislate against it in Brazil, that's kind of news to me. I wonder if there are other countries like that? Maybe schope knows.

[Dim]

Come on ZeUs!! we need your footballing point of view!

[Troll King]

Part of the issue may also be the culture of soccer or football. I'm not saying that soccer is inherently racist, but over the last few years there have been many headlines of race and racism in soccer in various leagues around the world, with incidents not just among players but often between players and fans. Just this past week there was a game in Italy that began with a moment of silence for the passing of the Pope remembering parts of his life including his early years in the occupation of Poland, but once the game started Nazi flags unfurled in one corner of the stands. Perhaps it's because the sport is growing more international with players from all parts of the world being signed to teams that used to be more homongeous, or perhaps it's the strong ties between soccer and nationalism. I'm not enough of a soccer fan to know if this is as big a problem in the sport as recent media depicts, so maybe others could offer more informed opinions.

[NaiLed]

i'm a big football fan but don't understand why there is so much racism in football. they have been doing a campign for a while now, 'Let's kick racism out of football' with many of the best footballers in the world doing TV adverts to support it. they also do anti-racism wristbands, but it is almost impossible to get one anywhere. it makes no sense that they would stop making them when there is a big demand for them, especially if it tackles a major issue like racism.

[Rab]

racism is stupid, who gives a shit if someone's black or white. it's the gays u wanna be worried about.

[wadi]

racism is stupid, who gives a shit if someone's black or white. it's the gays u wanna be worried about.

Don't troll General Discussion

[schope]

I think racism is part of many cultures arround the world, and sports like soccer are just situations when ppl "let it flow" and show how much they are racists.

Here we made those laws not because there is more racism than in usa for ex. I think we got here like only 10% of what you have in usa. we made those laws simply because we think racism cant be tolerated

You know why ? cause its pointless. Yesterday humanity killed jews and made black ppl slave because of their race or collor of their skin ? Who's gonna be the next victim ? latin americans ? europeans ? canadians ? Who knows.

[DoTheFandango]

Don't troll General Discussion

Did he actually do something wrong there?

[ZeUs!!]

Yeah, trolling is posting shit just to provoke people



Background

The whole recent racism fiasco started with the Spainish national team, where in training for a match against the French their boss Luis Aragones motivated Arsenal player Jose Reyes by telling him he was better than Thierry Henry, "that black shit". Aragones then went into a press conference to attempt to defend himself, proclaiming "All I did was to motivate the gypsy by telling him he was better than the black”. This sparked monkey chants from Spanish fans whenever a black English player touched the ball in the Spain-England match that followed, and the Spanish FA to completely deny any racism in their sport and fine their boss just £2,000. It also led to the exposure of what isn't talked about, how players like Samuel Eto'o regularly get abused at away games throughout the country.


The Debate

In my opinion what followed was a complete over-reaction with national teams wearing anti-racist logos across their shirts and even specially manufactured black and white anti-racist shirts. The movement then jumped on the Livestrong bandwagon where you can now get anti-racist wristbands, which led to England right-back quite rightly saying that companies like Nike are causing the campaign to try and gain some commerical advantage by manufacturing these new shirts and wristbands you have to buy. More importantly its given the racists what they want; attention and exposure to their cause. They've got the global stage now and everyone's listening to what they're saying. The press go into hyperbole every time a racist incident is mentioned now in an attempt to highlight the issue, but highlightings exactly what we shouldn't be doing. Sanction the racists and then ignore them.

Racism has always been a problem in football. The root of the problem is despite all the theatrics when someone fakes an injury and the poncy haircuts, footballers is an overtly masculine sport. They're a pretty fucking insecure bunch, footballers. There has only ever been one openly gay footballer in the history of English football, and he ended up committing suicide. Apparently 1 in 10 males are supposed to be gay, I'm not sure how accurate that statistic is but whatever the statistic there must be at least 100 gay footballers in English football now who are afraid to come out from the treatment they'll recieve on the pitch and from the stands. Its fairly obvious that Freddie Ljundberg, Robert Pires and Sol Campbell are gay yet they always venemously deny it. I'm not sure about other countrys but I would guess its the same situation as I've never heard of any gay footballers anywhere, apart from Justin Fashenu (the guy who topped himself).

What I feel has been the catalyst for people addressing the cause, and somethig that is never talked about in conjuction with racism, is Sky TV. When the company company Sky bought the rights to screen all the premiership matches at the beginning of the 1990's, football was instantly beamed into the living rooms of every average suburban family in Britain that chose to watch it, which was a lot. I'm not sure on the figures (I've just had a lecture on football and racism and my notes are about 3 foot away from my arm but that means getting out of bed and there's no chance of that happening) but I do know that in order to screen the 2002 World Cup, the BBC and ITV submitted a joint bid of £600m. Thats how highly tv companies rate football coverage and a good indication of how closely its watched. The change in the role of football as a form of light entertainment in the early 90's led to campaigns such as "Racism, lets kick it out of football" and the like. While these campaigns have been running along nicely, with banners at stadiums and the like, no one's really taken any notice of them. This is noticable in that people have realised theres a problem, but either through not realising how deep the problem lies (trying to change the psyche of every footballer in the country) or through just creating the campaign just to make it look like the problem's being addressed, or perhaps just aren't bothered about it until now where they risk being branded a racist unless they support the cause.


The solution (I'm not that up myself I just couldn't think of a better title)

Ultimately the problem lies with the fanbase. Football is no longer about 10 stone white men kicking each other into the air for 90 minutes. With the influx of the tv company's money, clubs have been able to buy players from all over the world which led to Chelsea recently submitting a squad of 16 non-English players. Yet the sport is inherantly working class, despite all the fiasco's over how its becoming hi-jacked by politicians and how tickets are so expensive that only the middle class can afford it, and also the whole 'prawn sandwich brigade' outrage (Man Yoo footballer Roy Keane criticised the club's and other club's decision to build executive box for entertain corporate guests instead of seats for real fans). Its the working class that support the teams, who discuss it in the pubs and who actually care about the club. The working class are inherantly backwards. Not the most intelligent, they hate change, hate new people coming in and taking their jobs, which is the perfect environment for breeding biggotry and contempt. The problem isn't trying to put on commercial shows involving various famous footballers saying how bad racism is, its getting their best mates to say how bad racism is and spreading new ideas through the working class.




Ipswich Vs Sunderland in 1hr 45mins, we're going to get thrashed