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The Swastika: As I see it

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  • The Swastika: As I see it

    Hi there.

    Well, I got banned yesterday. I got banned for wearing a banner that had an odd, rectangular-squarish shape with 4 pointy sides sticking out. There was some red and white in the middle too, like a discolored pumpkin pie or something. The banner was that of a Swastika.

    I don't particularly understand why I was banned. Especially since it was done in such a nice, polite manner. First, M_M God asked me on squad chat to remove it since it was against TW rules. Then Thorn made a joke and asked me if I minded taking it down. M_M gave me red warning, apologized on chat, and then banned me for a day. Naturally my ban will be upped due to my ban history, but that's besides the point.

    The Swastika banner, previously ridiculed by certain staff members, was always supported by Priitk. He felt that people had an undeniable freedom to wear whatever banner pleased them. Putting restrictions on banners is not only unenforceable, but ineffective and illogical. In his absence, Overstrand and others have made up a rule that proclaims the Swastika to be a racist symbol of intolerance and therefore prohibited in TW.

    SSCU Trench Wars Ban Guide reads as follows:


    --
    SSCU Trench Wars Banning Procedures
    This guide was compiled to be an approximate list of how a ban should be
    preceded in various categories
    Before actual banning procedures are gotten into I think the concept of
    "Warning" a player should be discussed because there are several ways of
    doing it. Idly a warning should be done by a (s)moderator because they are
    there for primarily handling cheaters. When I mention a warning I mean the
    *warn command. The nice thing about that is; he player that's cheating gets
    a nice un-ignorable red message that starts with "MODERATOR WARNING" then
    whatever he is doing. This is a very nice way of catching attention, and
    afterwards they should put something to the general effect of "(The specific
    kind of cheating they are doing) is illegal in TW and is punishable by
    banning". That's a mod warning, but once in awhile staff can't do this. In
    pub ER's still capable of doing something similar. They just give you a
    green message and end it with a sound and the tag should tip you off that
    you are on staff. ERs will usually come if mods are busy dealing with
    another cheater or there are no other available mods. Please note that for a
    ban you must warn the perpetrator in your staff name, It is sufficient to
    tell them that once they are warned the next time they are caught they may
    be banned without notice. The severity of the case determines after how much
    time a player deserves another warning, instead of a ban. If you watch a
    cheater under an alt name and you have already given the appropriate
    warnings you can ban if he continues to break the rules.


    Racism and discrimination
    Racism happens, to pretend it doesn't would be stupid, so instead it is a
    ban-able offence. Basically if you type messages that are offensive to
    someone's culture, heritage, physicality, sexual preference, or race
    designed to hurt the general group/person will not be tolerated. If a
    player does this privately and a log of the transcripts is sent that will be
    counted as proof and you can ban for it.
    Excessive sexual or verbal harassment is also not tolerated. Note: This
    applies to Player names and squad names that are derogatory.
    Swastika banners fall under this category and any Swastika banners that are
    tilted are ban-able and those that resemble the Nazi banners are as well.
    Others are ok!!
    Staff can take it upon themselves to decide how many warnings to give and
    then ban.
    1st Offence ban time - 1 day
    2nd Offence ban time - 7 days
    3rd Offence ban time - 30 days
    4th Offence ban time - 60 days
    5th offence ban time - 90 days
    6th offence ban time - 120 days


    --

    In the absence of the controlling brains of TW and leader of the inactive Subspace Council, staff has not only violated the rules of the person who wrote the code for the game they are in 'charge of' but also the freedoms and liberties that come with choosing your own name, your own squad, and yes -- your own banner.

    "The Swastika" is the oldest cross and emblem in the world. It forms a combination of four "L's" standing for Luck, Light, Love and Life. It has been found in ancient Rome, excavations in Grecian cities, on Buddhist idols, on Chinese coins dated 315 B.C., and the Southwest Indians use it as an amulet.

    It is claimed that the Mound Builders and Cliff Dwellers of Mexico, Central America consider "The Swastika" a charm to drive away evil and bring good luck, long life and prosperity to the possessor.

    Of course, the Swastika has often been associated with hate, racism, predjudice, and needless violence due to the atrocity of the Nazi regime during the Holocaust era.

    However, banning the Swastika is a bad idea for many reasons:

    1) First and foremost, this is unfair and illogical. If a select group of individuals can persuade the authorative figure to punish anyone who does not conform, then the entire system is asking for trouble. Perception is not evidence, nor is it ground for punishment or justification for ridicule. What appears to be a symbol of hate and injustice to you, is simply a wobbly formation of lines to me. I was not racist, malicious, or trouble making when I had the banner on. I said no curses, no insults, no slurs. I did not stab, burn, or discriminate against an individual or a group of individuals. There was no malice behind me wearing a swastika; therefore I do not deserve to be punished.

    2) If a symbol can so easily be affiliated with ultimate destruction, dare I suggest that there is a multitude of images out there that deserve to be banned. What kind of a precedent does this set? Why isn't the Cross banned? Wingzero says that the Cross, although affiliated with the Crusades in which thousands upon thousands of Islamic civilians were beheaded, the Spanish Inquisition where the Catholic Religion and the Cross were mandated as the law of the land and those that did not convert were hung, or the rosemary-cross I see today on UPN 9, hanging on the neck of the pedophile priest who just settled his multi-million dollar court case, presents a plethora of positive religious beliefs. Well, I propose that to some people, such as myself, the Swastika is a symbol of something entirely different from what the mainstream would have you believe. Apparently some of the oldest civilizations in Rome and Greece share my view. To some it's a symbol of the German might, others see it as a decoration of history. If the Swastika, ridiculed through perception, is offensive enough to be prohibited then I would like to make a request for the Cross to be banned, for the Star of David to be banned, for the NFL Bills logo to be banned (my uncle lost his wallet at the Bills game, you see), as well as the dildo, the leather pouch, and the George Foreman Grill (boxing is violent and promotes drug use, it also offends me) to be punishable by a heavy fine and a prison sentance. Since the following symbols are sure to offend about 14 people worldwide, we must seek justice in the name of democracy. Now that staff has the power and authority to ban one banner, who is going to stop them from continuing this tradition of idiocy?

    1:WingZero <ER>> No other banners are being banned YET

    3) This is about as unenforceable as it gets. Unlike a racist remark which is autologged by the server for mods to check up on, in case of a dispute, the banner can be switched on and off as the user pleases. When a mod comes into an arena, the person can easily switch banners and then proceed to be a Nazi boogieman all over again. This is entirely different from cheating and using programs, since those leave a more noticeable trace. RoboRef picks and up and reports unusual activity on staff chat. Staffers have the power to check lag levels for irregularities. A banner does not leave clear tracks behind, therefore, unless the perpatrator is caught at the instant of the crime, enforcing this rule will be a big, unneccassary burden. Besides the difficulties associated with it, one might want to ponder how these situations are handled in real life. If I were to have a nazi badge on my sweat shirt, I would not get arrested, fined, or castrated by the Governing body. My just and proper punishment would be the social ridicule from my fellow citizens. That should be as far as it goes.

    4) The reasoning behind this is as fruity as Barney the Dinosaur's porno stash. The correlation between a racist action and a racist visual is non-existant. That's right, it is non-existant. IF, I wore my swastika banner while chanting "Kill the Jews, Fry Moses" and spamming pub with ZIEG HEIL, then it is an entirely different case. Swastikas in text books and soft-core German pornos seem to be perfectly fine. I never even had the Swastika banner in my directory until yesterday when I found out it became 'illegal.' Compromising freedom of expression and the liberty to choose just to satisfy outraged minorities is a crime in itself. I am not a racist. I am not a fascist. I choose to express myself in a manner which is different from the thinking patterns of the authorative rulers of TW. That does not make me 'bad,' it makes me different. Since my last ban, I have not caused any trouble, bothered anyone on staff, or ignited any sparks on the old flame. A 12 by 8 pixel equipped for 3 seconds does not automate someone into a demonic machine of intolerance and violent tendencies. I am not a Nazi, nor their supporter. The symbol in itself holds no value unless accompanied by verbal or physical discriminatory action. http://www.manwoman.net/swastika/
    Last edited by Annux; 11-09-2002, 06:31 PM.

  • #2
    Naturally, this idiocy originated from (where else) Staff YahooGroups, the birthplace of dumb ideas and logic violations.

    =====

    ^ BY OVERSTRAND
    ---------
    Wingzero:
    As it is now
    called, the "ancient" Swastika is a GOOD swastika. It is STRAIGHT and
    is usually seen with BLUE and WHITE. The Nazi Swastika is TILTED and
    is also BLACK RED AND WHITE. There is a HUGE difference in the two.
    If a banner is seen tilted, but no colors. Its Nazi. If it is
    straight but has the colors it is ALSO Nazi.

    Over this rule needs to be detailed a little more I believe.
    -----
    Once I know if the swastika is banable or not I will reply to this. If
    the swastika is *not* bannable I will appeal the decision on the TW forum
    (do we still have one of those)?

    Is the Swastika racist? Yes/no?

    -Spider <ZH>
    ----
    This seems like a pretty easy decision to me. Either tell everyone to grow
    up and allow it, or don't allow it and anything resembling it. You need to
    make this rule as unambiguous as possible in my opinion.

    2d
    ------
    Yes it IS banable. Read the banning procedures, it kind of tells you.
    And yes the NAZI Swastika is racist. If you just say swastika, then
    no it is not.
    - wingzero
    -----
    i agree, i originally misread the context of the tilt and thought
    that was illegal too.

    as i understand it, tilted nazi swastikas are illegal, others
    aren't. while this is politically correct i think we do need to get
    a more concrete definition.

    i'd petition for the removal of this rule, a symbol isn't racist in
    nature, it is racist in practice. if the person wearing the banner
    isn't doing anything to promote racism then i don't see why it
    shouldn't be allowed.

    ps. feel free to argue with me
    pps. starweaver, stop readin the dictionary
    - randled
    ------
    I strongly disagree rand. They are practicing racism just by wearing
    that banner. If you asked any inteligent person (I
    stress 'inteligent' here) what that banner reminds him of, I can
    guarentee they will think of the Holocaust, genocide, hatred of jews,
    which is sumed up into Racism. Personally, when I see the Nazi
    Swastika, I think of a dear friend of mine who was in a Nazi
    concentration camp. She was rescued and given food but ate more than
    I eat for breakfast and died becuase her stomach was too small too
    support that amount of food.
    Now I know that not everyone will think of the same thing as me but
    it is generally what everyone will think of.
    Okay now to get back to my earlier point, so what happens is this
    idiot throws on the banner to grab attention and look cool (most of
    the time). They probably know that there were a couple of World Wars
    and that in one of them a bunch of "Jews" died becuase of some ugly
    German dude. And they know that when people see this symbol it will
    remind them of that and piss them off. And they also know that there
    are many Jewish people who play the game. So what happens when a
    Jewish person sees that banner? What that banner is telling the
    Jewish person is that, "I am a better person than you and you are
    nothing to me. You are worthless dirt and if I could get a hold of
    you I would perform experiments on your brain without using any kind
    of anaesthetics."
    Though I may have exagerated that a bit, the banner is still
    practicing racism by sending out a message to everyone who sees it.

    Now for the people who really do know a lot about what happend and
    believe in what Hitler did..shall I even go on?

    -Wing
    ----
    Hmmm, you had a dear friend who died in a concentration camp, or shortly
    after....

    That would make you what? 65? 70? hehehe

    But ya, now dont take this the wrong way people....
    but to all you Martin Luther King wannabes - this is a little comp game...no
    need to get so passionate. theres a lotta shit on the internet...sure we try
    to hide TW from all of it, but it aint gonna happen.

    Sure we will/should try to control racism and discrimination, but we should
    do it discreatly. It is all the attention it gets that causes people to
    continue it.

    Just relax ppl....
    Let Overstrand do his job, and respect his decision. Whichever way he
    chooses, it will be in the best interest of TW...

    Thanks,
    - ProphetX <ER>
    ---------
    Passionate? Not exactly. But idiocy in all its forms is no friend of
    mine. Am I crying over Jews? No... The only thing I don't like is wannabe
    liberals thinking they are being smart by saying "oh, well, technically that
    isn't a swastika". I stand by my earlier statement. If anything resembling a
    swastika is deemed non-racist by the staff I will go to the people and let
    them decide (more or less just for kicks). It might not change zone policy,
    but it will validate my feelings that I am right, and anyone saying "this
    isn't technically a sawstika" is wrong.

    -Spider <ZH>

    P.S. Want to send a message about being "being fortunate" use a "thumbs up"
    banner.
    -------
    Yes, you might know about what the ancient meaning of
    the swastika is, but who is to say that all of TW
    does? Im pretty sure the majority of TW only sees it
    as a Nazi symbol not as one of good luck or fortune,
    so you can't really base whether it's viewed as either
    being good (luck fortune) or Evil (Nazis Genocide)
    just by the information that YOU know, only by how the
    majority views it as.
    -Tobe
    ------
    k, i changed my mind. while i still stand by my original statement,
    wing brought up a good point. by allowing such things, even if they
    don't mean anything today, it's still a spit in the face the the
    jewdaist religion.

    what can i say. . . marijuana has strange effects on my thinking
    - rand
    ------

    ====

    I am sure that upon Priitk's return, this faggotry will be reversed. But as long as some douchebag ER can tell me what I can and can not have as my banner, I think I'm going to stay out of Trench Wars; even when my ban ends in 2 days.


    See you then~~~
    Last edited by Annux; 11-09-2002, 04:23 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Express yourself, don't repress yourself

      New Official TW Regulations: Up-to-date Stupidity

      Banners can hurt feelings too! Use with Download Accelerator

      Forum Avatars, Pure Evil in Rectangular Form! Use with Download Accelerator

      If the .zips don't work, just give the good ole' WTFZ webpage a glance
      Last edited by Annux; 11-09-2002, 04:16 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Dearest Annux

        My position is simple. Either racism is against the rules in TW or it is not. If it is then our rules need to be as unambiguous as possible. Rules should be easy to follow for the people and easy to enforce for staff. It is clear that the Swastika is synonymous with Nazi and racist views. If we think we ought to be fighting racism in TW then the Swastika shouldn't be allowed. I view it as hypocritical to allowed Swastikas and still have an anti-racism rule at all. I see two paths, either we fight racism, or we just abandon the pursuit all together.

        It wouldn't kill you to take off that banner, right? I firmly believe anyone with a Nazi banner is merely trying to push the rules to the breaking point. Another reason why I think the rules need to be as clear as possible.

        Vote Spider as Dictator 2002!
        Spider
        Formerly EEK! A Spider!
        Former TW Moderator, still an all around nice guy

        Comment


        • #5
          OH MY GOD YOU ARE SO CUTTING EDGE AND CONTRAVERSIAL!!!

          really go fuck yourself and stop complaining.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think your ban puts a slight dent in your argument that it is uninforceable.

            Your arguments about the interpretations and perception of the symbol are problematic as well. Someone could go around TW calling everyone the N-word, and according to your logic, could argue that the word is just a word and has no meaning to you. Additionally, a person wearing a banner for whom it holds no meaning, should also therefore not have a problem with changing it if requested, since the symbol has no meaning to him

            I do agree that banning or warning on sight is inappropriate without some level of context. First of all, if the banner is accompanied by overtly racist comments, then the matter is cut and dry. I do however, disagree with wearing of the Nazi banner to protest this rule. Doing so is not just immature, it also undermines anti-racism to support a movement that I believe is a much lesser evil.

            Your claims that you are not a racist are a bit of a stretch, though Annux, and thus undermines your position in a way that wouldn't have affected someone else.
            Arguing freedom of speech and expression in this matter is faulty. There already is an existing obcenity block in TW. Freedom of speech is one thing, but it gets cloudy when it infringes on freedom from racism.

            Comment


            • #7
              Annux,

              Stop being a bitch.

              -Andy

              Comment


              • #8
                Revolution? Barricades?
                Originally posted by Diakka
                Lets stop being lil bitches

                Comment


                • #9
                  Look at the following. Tell me all of these images should be banned because they are or were associated with violence/hatred/etc. I agree wholeheartedly with Spider. Either have a policy that encompasses all aspects of racism, or STFU.

                  Last edited by Jason; 11-09-2002, 06:14 PM.
                  jasonofabitch loves!!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Animol> the solution for crimelization is openetion of heartization
                    Moltenrock> STOP TALKING TO MY TEAMMMATE ASSHOLE

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      :eek:
                      can we please have a moment for silence for those who died from black on black violence

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It's a sad day when DSB's policies make sense

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Being of the jewish faith myself, and having had both my grandfathers in concentration camps, i originally found this display of swastikas obscenely offending and gruesome. I used to see random people wearing the swastika on their banner, and concluded that all they really wanted was attention. I still believe that most of the people who sport the banner are seeking attention and controversy, yet i think that some people have very legitimate claims to wear the banner. Who are we to tell someone of the buddist faith to stop wearing a banner that is rooted deep into their religion? If that is the case, then i would like Melee to stop using the cross in their squad banner, and I think dystrophy should change his squad name to "Not-Religious", so that he doesn't offend those who believe in a god. Those are both ridiculous requests. So here is my dilema, do I speak against the banner out of respect for my grandfathers and my entire lineage, or do I support freedom of expression, because everyone has the right to define themselves in their own particular way. After reading Annux's post, and researching the background of the swastica prior to World War II, i have to support Annux's argument. Rules should reflect the laws of our society, and our society allows for the freedom of expression as long as it doesn't constitute harm. If a player wearing a swastika starts preaching hate, then i believe in that situation their is justification to ban that player, but if that same player preaches peace and love, who are we to say that that player has some underlining evil plan to convert us all into Nazis?
                          ROCKING MY OWN WORLD SINCE PUBERTY.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by yung
                            Being of the jewish faith myself, and having had both my grandfathers in concentration camps, i originally found this display of swastikas obscenely offending and gruesome. I used to see random people wearing the swastika on their banner, and concluded that all they really wanted was attention. I still believe that most of the people who sport the banner are seeking attention and controversy, yet i think that some people have very legitimate claims to wear the banner. Who are we to tell someone of the buddist faith to stop wearing a banner that is rooted deep into their religion? If that is the case, then i would like Melee to stop using the cross in their squad banner, and I think dystrophy should change his squad name to "Not-Religious", so that he doesn't offend those who believe in a god. Those are both ridiculous requests. So here is my dilema, do I speak against the banner out of respect for my grandfathers and my entire lineage, or do I support freedom of expression, because everyone has the right to define themselves in their own particular way. After reading Annux's post, and researching the background of the swastica prior to World War II, i have to support Annux's argument. Rules should reflect the laws of our society, and our society allows for the freedom of expression as long as it doesn't constitute harm. If a player wearing a swastika starts preaching hate, then i believe in that situation their is justification to ban that player, but if that same player preaches peace and love, who are we to say that that player has some underlining evil plan to convert us all into Nazis?
                            Someone give this man a cookie. This is what it all boils down to folks.
                            jasonofabitch loves!!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              what do we do to men like these, saddam?

                              that's right, pour gas down their throats just like you do in real life! let's make hitler look like jimmy fucking carter!

                              ...

                              my banner is iraqi flag. ban me.

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