The Swastika: As I see it

[Ender]

De-construct it's symbolism if it really matters to you.

Why do you think us gays adopted the words fag and queer? To de-construct the symbolism and power people put behind the words.
Like I said before, no one likes to live in fear. Instead of trying to make staff do this, or make other people do that, why not do what you can to further educate people on the meaning of the swastika. Try to dis-associate it from the concepts of fascism, because thats all thats holding you back here. The sickel and hammer - to the collective consciousness of the population of the Earth - doesn't represent Stalin's reign, or his crimes against humanity. To most people, the hammer and sickle represent communism, (i know, but there is a disticntion) and it is adopted by people who generally disagree with Capitalism.

If more movies had been made about the Russian revolution and the Soviet experiment, you'd have a collective conciousness in thw world that would look at the hammer and sickle and say "Oh yeah, thems the bad peoples who killed thems Tsar king or something, and put missles in Cubar."

Take the power to insight fear and hatred away from a word or image, and it'll become accepted as just what it is, a word or image.

Right now, the world isn't prepared to accept the swastika as a symbol of anything except "what dem germans wore when they invaded frenchland. I saws it in the movie with Tommy Hanks."

[TelC@t]

Originally posted by Pearl Jam

EDIT: TelCat's stupidity makes me want to decapitate kittens.

EVIL ...
(COMMUNITY NOTICE)
IF YOU FOUND OUT THAT YOUR FAMILY CAT GOT DECAPITATED, PLEASE DON'T HESITATE TO REPORT THE SUSPECT PEARL JAM TO THE POLICE. DONT APPROACH THE SUSPECT YOURSELF, HE IS CONSIDERED ARMED WITH STUPIDITY AND DANGEROUS.

[sTuPiD-gErBiL]

as a proud human "mutt" (my ancestors slept around in many countries), i'm offended by everything you all say.

give me bang and i'll ban every last one of you motherfuckers.

[Bigwig]

i guess i sit in the middle on this argument. well when it comes right down to it i don't care if its banned or not. its a 2d online spaceship game.
annux you made some good points, but that 4L shit is in my opinion racist justification for their use of the emblem. i've never ever seen a reliable source on just where that symbol comes from, although i'm sure you'll link one now.
In canada, hate crimes can include the publishing of racist literature, from books to flyers to pamphlets.
also, some of you have said that the rules should reflect the laws of society, well in some states, although i'm not sure, its illegal to fly the confederate flag is it not? or at least it is illegal to fly at government buildings.
also, not every society is similar to the united states, some countries, like i don't know, finland, might actually have different laws. i have no idea of course.
as for the communist banner, i think if someone actually got off their ass and complained in a serious way then maybe it would be banned, because it can represent those atrocities. but if i were to make a case against banning it, there are differences between the swastica and the sickle, the swastica represents racism, and don't say it doesn't, neo nazi's don't use it because its cute, and the sickle represents communism, which doesn't necessarily advocate the killing of innocent people. its supposed to be benevolent. Finally the general public does not draw a direct line between sickle and 30 million dead people. but people do draw a line between swastika and millions of dead jews.
but yeah, despite my lengthy reply i guess i don't care.

[pv=nrt]

fuck politics in real life, and fuck politics in trench wars.

[sTuPiD-gErBiL]

just read it and shut up:
http://history1900s.about.com/librar.../aa120699a.htm

you people spend more time arguing than educating yourselves. 5 seconds on google is all it takes.

[Oen]

Ban Annux from ZONE and FORUM!

Moved to: Useless Crap


Why was Annux's life ban lifted?? Reinstate it! Then ban his trouble making ass from the forum. END OF STORY!!

He is only here to disrupt this game. He set up a page with known cheats to push Staff into a corner. He wore the Swastica banner to push Staff into a corner.

He has been banned umpteen times in Tw alone. Countless more bans in other zones. He is only here to cause problems among Staff and thier interpations of a rule. He posted links to pornography. He used a avatar showing a male penis going erect breaking rule #3 of forum.

He went out of his way to disrupt leagues. What else has to be done to show that he is a worthless member of the TW community? Staff needs to inact a 3 time loser law. Get yourself banned 3 times you're out. He should have no rights to be in TW Zone nor should he have rights to post in this forums.

[Annux]

Thank god no one ever listens to your hick ass.


Oh, and Staff, in case you would like to enforce your rule of banning racist names -- Oen Izan is actually NEO NAZI BACKWARDS! Yeah, don't let it slip by you again.

[Pearl Jam]

there are exactly 6 people on this forum that are entertaining

[arrogance]

Originally posted by yung
Being of the jewish faith myself, and having had both my grandfathers in concentration camps, i originally found this display of swastikas obscenely offending and gruesome. I used to see random people wearing the swastika on their banner, and concluded that all they really wanted was attention. I still believe that most of the people who sport the banner are seeking attention and controversy, yet i think that some people have very legitimate claims to wear the banner. Who are we to tell someone of the buddist faith to stop wearing a banner that is rooted deep into their religion? If that is the case, then i would like Melee to stop using the cross in their squad banner, and I think dystrophy should change his squad name to "Not-Religious", so that he doesn't offend those who believe in a god. Those are both ridiculous requests. So here is my dilema, do I speak against the banner out of respect for my grandfathers and my entire lineage, or do I support freedom of expression, because everyone has the right to define themselves in their own particular way. After reading Annux's post, and researching the background of the swastica prior to World War II, i have to support Annux's argument. Rules should reflect the laws of our society, and our society allows for the freedom of expression as long as it doesn't constitute harm. If a player wearing a swastika starts preaching hate, then i believe in that situation their is justification to ban that player, but if that same player preaches peace and love, who are we to say that that player has some underlining evil plan to convert us all into Nazis?

I'd make a post, but this pretty much clears everything up. The swastika banners is in most cases immature and juvenile, and I really doubt many people wear them for any reason other than to nab some attention. Either way, it might be boneheaded and rude, but it shouldn't be against the rules until they start preaching hate.

[Latrine]

Annux won

[Epinephrine]

It's a little known fact that the ancient Chinese actually wrote in English, and spelled "Luck, Live, Love and Life" the exact same way that we do now, with "L"s. It's also a very little known fact that a swaztica set at a 45 degree angle, with a white circle behind it and a red background was used for thousands of centuries and made a lot of people happy. It was just a pure coincidence that the Nazis one day found this symbol, and that it's also another pure coincidence that this symbol is the number one symbol used in the world to spread hate and racism.

But then again, let's all grow up. There's no such thing as hate and racism. It's all about the Buddist love! The ancient Chinese who spoke English knew much more than all of us about this, and thus we should be happy.

Anyone who is offended by the Swaztica is a moron! Absolutely no one ever saw this symbol as anything more than happy Buddish love. What's more is that absolute freedom of speech is a reality on the Internet. Never mind the fact that there is a default and very automatic obsenity filter in Trench Wars that stops us from typing many words. Never mind that this game is distributed as freeware and if PriitK thinks that the Swaztica as a banner is alright that absolutely everyone in the unverse should follow his commandments. Never mind the fact that basically every other major online game in the world would ban and probably revoke accounts of people who did such acts (I mean hell they aren't American and thus aren't human and don't stand for the only absolute real democracy and real view of human rights in the world right?).

Yes folks, let's take a step back. Let's remember that the people wearing these banners in Subspace, are not racists. Let's remember that they absolutely do not crave attention, nor do they care about proving a point. They are just a bunch of people who love the Buddists, and they love wearing this banner which really doesn't symbolize much anyway, but is real hell to take off. Remember everyone, it's not the attention that matters. It's not telling others that they are wrong for trying to enforce some sociatal norms that's the issue here. It's that the cute fluffy happy loving people who wear the 45 degree tiled swaztica with a white circle and a red background know that this symbol stands absolutely for nothing, offends absolutely no one, and should be allowed for all to wear.

While we're thinking all this, let's completely forget that no other symbol in the industrialized world conjures up the porported images of hate, bigotry and racism that this symbol does. Remember those who tell you that this symbol really only stands for one thing in today's society are completely wrong. Obviously on the sickle and hammer stands for evil and genocide. In fact that's the ONLY thing that the sickle and hammer stand for, and racism is the absolute first thing that pops into everyone's mind when they see this symbol. Really... honest! Let's completely forget that the swaztica is (by pure coincidence of course) the singlar symbol that stands for every white supremacist group around the world. Let's forget that millions of people currently alive were directly affected by all this. Let's forget that if you wore this symbol around school or around the city, that unless you live in some hick area, you'd probably get your ass kicked.

Yes let's forget all that, and let the symbol be worn. Let's forget all that, and let American ideals of absolute freedom of speech run free in a zone hosted in Finland. Let's forget that some ignorant people who proport to be insulted by this symbol play this game, and thus are offended that this Let's forget that this symbol stands for anything else but happy Buddists. Let's forget that fact again, that the only people who really do wear this are those who are looking for attention, or those who are genuinely racist. Let's forget that Trench Wars actually has a policy for racism, and an obsenity filter for swear words, and that censorship in the zone has been around for eons and has never been seriously debated. Let's forget that to be consistant certain steps have to be taken in the formulation of zone policy. Let's forget that the ban is very specific for the type of banner allowed. Let us forget that Trench Wars respects it's players freedom to enjoy the game and not to have them subjected to things that seriously offend them which society thinks is wrong too. Let's forget that in the interests of being good to the players and good to the public that this policy was made in the first place instead of absolute free speech.

Let's forget all that okay guys?

-Epi

P.S. I believe the decision has now been reversed because some people won't stop complaining and whining. Too bad. If this were real life, those people would of been beat up a long time ago

[Annux]

Hey did you fellas clean up StaffMod YahooGroups? Effective way of keeping intruders out!1!!!

[Annux]

Originally posted by Ender


A similar thing happened when I was in grade eleven and held a protest in my school against the "no hats" rule. Its a trivial issue, but thats what we were protesting.
The difference here: there are no principals and janitors to stand at the front door and take everyone's hat as they enter the building.
Few mods, many players.

Just a suggestion.

Funny you brought that up, my highschool had a similiar policy. No one ever rebelled against it because it was never heavily enforced. It was great to hear the reasoning behind why hats aren't allowed ~~

"Hats could very well be representations of gang symbols! Also, during a fight, if someone gets assaulted, they won't be able to identify the perpatrator's face because of the hat!!"

Alot of people bought into this stupidity, some plainly ignored it. There was no mass rally though, probably because no one really cared. I don't know of a single person who got suspended for wearing a hat.

I like to wear a hat sometimes because it's cold outside. Also, I am in a gang and usually pull my hat over my face so the po-po can't get me later during drive-by stabbings in my suburb ghetto.

[Blast]

We had a hat protest. The fuckers handed out obviously fake petitions, and were like, "If we get enough signatures, we'll consider changing it"... They then proceeded to throw the petitions straight into the trash. Dumbass kids thought they had a chance of changing something. Now kids at my school probably still can't even eat lunch outside.