London Police Murder Innocent Civilian

[Subjugation]

I guess the guy is REALLY late for the train now.

[Sarien]

It's not that "I'm being juvenile and should have just said, 'I didn't realize that'", it's that I don't agree with you. I don't think that it's suddenly ok for any cops, British or American to just go around shooting suspects just for wearing coats in cool weather and running away from them. Especially when they have the suspect on the ground, already. I've work a coat plenty of times in 70 degree weather, especially if I was planning on being out late that night.

You were being so, because up until this latest twist of "being held down" that you've incorporated you were simply saying the "maybe he didn't believe they were police". I'm trying to make you understand, and it doesn't -matter- whether you agree or not. Police officers do not have to make you believe they are police. They do not have to be in uniform to arrest you. It is their job to identify themselves loudly and clearly, and order you to comply. It is the detainee's job to stop, and obey instructions.

1: Jean Charles de Menezes leaves a house under surveillance and arrives at Stockwell station
2: Witnesses say he vaults the automatic ticket barriers and heads for the platforms
3: He then ran down an escalator after being approached by up to 20 plain-clothed police officers and tried to board a train
4: He apparently refuses to obey police instructions and after running onto a northbound Northern line train, he is shot dead


You're going to tell me that he just assumed that suddenly 20 guys were out to get him, ordering him to stop, and that it's ok for him to sprint and ignore the police? Go ahead and tell me that. But you're wrong. I'm not being an asshole, I am trying to tell you straight up, that you are wrong.

As for the being pinned and being shot, I don't see that and haven't heard that before TK posted it, if it is so? Then yes, that is completely horrible and should never have happened. But if nothing else, everybody in london knows now that the police have orders to shoot to kill potential suicide bombers, and will follow through on that order if they don't comply.

Edit: If nothing else at all, the reason I am telling you all this, is not to be an asshole. It's because if ever you or pretty much anybody else reading this thread finds themselves in a similar situation, they ought to know, for the love of god, -don't run-. Believing in misconceptions (like police have to tell you that they are police if you ask them) are what gets people in deep shit and possibly killed, over stupid reasons just like this guy. It's a pointless waste, and here's hoping it doesn't happen to anybody else.

[schope]

Don't EVER run for a train in London, we're pretty tough on fare dodging here

mainly if you are brazillian. afk

[ZeUs!!]

Yeah being Brazilian was the main motivation behind the shooting

[Subjugation]

You were being so, because up until this latest twist of "being held down" that you've incorporated you were simply saying the "maybe he didn't believe they were police".

If you wanted me to actually read what you wrote, you might have chosen to start differently. I got this far and when realizing you are telling me what I think, I lost any interest in an exchange of ideas.

I knew the guy was held down before being shot in my first post. I only omitted it from my first post because I realized just because the cops had the guy down doesn't 100% mean a bomb couldn't be detonated. However, when factoring this with all the other questionable issues, it changes the overall picture.

If you thought I was being juvenile, it's really your problem. I no longer really care. I just expected a little more from you, since you're usually pretty thoughtful.

[Liquid Blue]

I think everyone needs a round of hand-jobs to liven things up, or at least make everyone a little less jumpy.


Ok who's up, c'mere and gimme your johnson. I may be Blue but I'm no tease.

[Theif of Time]

The sooner the US military releases their 'stun guns' to the world, the better. Phasors>guns.

[DoTheFandango]

US Police have launching tasers.

[Tone]

and you are all surprised at this?

[StarKitty]

I haven't been able to find anywhere on the bbc where it has been reported that the man was "held" down. They have the same story as sarien has written here.
A man jumped the barriers and was asked to stop by 3 plain clothed officers who he ignored, subsequently more officers were on the scene very quickly because the station was under surveillance. The guy then ran from "up to" 20 officers down the stairs and towards the train and was shot by 2 police marksmen 5 times in the head on the platform after being given authorisation "AFTER" he started running.

Police weren't on "shoot to kill", the marksmen were given authorisation after the extremely suspicious behaviour of the man and the possibility of another bombing.

Ask yourself this question: Would you have shot him if you were one of the Police Marksmen? - Seriously look at the way the guy acted o.O

As for this "tasers" thing someone was going on about.. a taser really doesn't stop someone from blowing themselves up if they have a detonator in their hand/pocket..

[Sarien]

I just expected a little more from you, since you're usually pretty thoughtful.

Look man, I got nothing against you at all. Hope you believe it.

I haven't been able to find anywhere on the bbc where it has been reported that the man was "held" down. They have the same story as sarien has written here

Look here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706913.stm

"He looked absolutely petrified and then he sort of tripped, but they were hotly pursuing him, [they] couldn't have been any more than two or three feet behind him at this time and he half tripped and was half pushed to the floor and the policeman nearest to me had the black automatic pistol in his left hand.

"He held it down to the guy and unloaded five shots into him.

That was a guy right next to it, and I believe him. The London police have a shoot-to-kill policy going on when dealing with suicide bomber suspects. That means that they will not take chances, and I have no problem, understand it completely, and were I in their place, would issue the same order.

The tragic lesson here, in the not-friendly world of violence and hate, do not take chances. Do not run. Do not reach for things. If you are stopped by police, you stop. You obey what they tell you to do, when they tell you to do it, and you don't backtalk, and you don't argue, and you certainly don't struggle, which is what got this man killed. Keep your hands in plain sight and do -exactly- as you're told.

Just think about this. Think about the bravery of the man right behind this guy. That followed him through this station, that followed him onto a train, leapt and took him to the ground. He did all that, and the entire time, he is one hundred percent sure in his mind that this guy he's chasing and tackling is a bomber. That there is a good chance he's carrying a bomb at that very moment. That the moment he tackles him, he could set any bomb off. Let that sit in your mind for a moment, and roll it around. He didn't do it for himself, and he didn't do it just because it was his job, though he might say he did. He did so to protect other people to the best of his ability.

As for this "tasers" thing someone was going on about.. a taser really doesn't stop someone from blowing themselves up if they have a detonator in their hand/pocket..

Lastly. This thing. Even better than that, StarKitty. Yeah, shoot someone with a taser, or jab 'em with a stun gun. That'll go over real well on the guys wearing suicide vests of electrically detonated explosives. Maybe the guy doing the taser-ing can be the one to set it all off, and save the bomber the trouble.

[GlitterKat]

Well he was muslim.

The way I see it, one down... 8247598479534759 to go

[Liquid Blue]

Ignorant post simply for a reaction ftw!

[Troll King]

Especially since the victim was a Roman Catholic Brazilian.

[Spider]

TK is cool

Troll King play some more SS so we can hang out. :wub: