Religion and Other Things

[Kolar]

By that logic I could say idiot for example, doesn't mean: "A foolish or stupid person". Theories can be proven true with enough information and testing. Wheather you blieve it is proven true or not is your opinion. Everyone will have their opinions but that does not effect the true or false nature of the universe. Religion doesn't formulate theories, they're promote a single doctrine. These beliefs are unchanging, unproven and are not tested.

[Stylez]

By that logic I could say idiot for example, doesn't mean: "A foolish or stupid person". Theories can be proven true with enough information and testing. Wheather you blieve it is proven true or not is your opinion. Everyone will have their opinions but that does not effect the true or false nature of the universe. Religion doesn't formulate theories, they're promote a single doctrine. These beliefs are unchanging, unproven and are not tested.

That's why I said "be it on religion or science"...

No one will ever know the true nature of certain things and nothing can ever prove them for fact(s), unless we were actually at those events as they took place... (ex. the big bang impulsion or even the entirety of the human species evolution process (mainly around the timeline of most major changes)... Same could be said for religion, you can make "assumptions" and they may be accurate, but they may not, which is why it's still an assumption...

I don't disagree with you, but, at the same time I do... It is an opinion, the both of ours would be... Same could be said about anything spoken coming out of the mouth of any certain individual(s), it's their opinion , no matter how you look at it...

[Tone]

All religion has an Exoteric and Esoteric side

[Saturn V]

I keep deleting what I type because this could go on forever. This is why I hate these types of topics. You'll just keep saying "assumption" and convince yourself that we know nothing. Trust me, we know shit. I'm sorry you don't understand it. It pans out in real life. The math works.

You really need to quit life.

[Cops]

esq q, shit i'm not dead yet.

[Stylez]

I keep deleting what I type because this could go on forever. This is why I hate these types of topics. You'll just keep saying "assumption" and convince yourself that we know nothing. Trust me, we know shit. I'm sorry you don't understand it. It pans out in real life. The math works.

You really need to quit life.

Hmm, I'm sure a lot of people wish they could look at things like you seem too, would make life less stressful...

Random Situation1: Oh this debate is taking so long, you suck, I win!
Random Situation2: It just works, end of discussion, go die....
Random Situation3: I hate your opinion, fuck off...
Random Situation4: I had a legitimate response to reply with, but I didn't want to put you to shame...

Getting the hint of sarcasm in those? It's all over the place...

[Tone]

The church supports pro-suffering ethics. They call this 'Natural Law'.

The church is a mafia of child molesters and the pope protects these molesters.

No one knows if the bible we read today is the real original bible or edited.

Spirituality cannot be organized. Organization is a game of control and minipulation. Especially if its not focusing on positive things like peace, unity, universal love and instead holding on to old nonsensical scriptures and focusing on sin, anthropomorphism, submission, threats about hell, and other nonsense.

[DoTheFandango]

I hear that God was angry that Stylez masturbates so he killed all the unicorns.

[Kolar]

That's why I said "be it on religion or science"...

No one will ever know the true nature of certain things

For something yes, until human conscious is at a higher level. Theories are not accepted as true or taken as fact based on other unproven theories. I think your way of looking at science is wrong.


I know the Big bang happened because the universe is expanding, the laws of phyics break down closer to the Big Bang and we can today detect and measure Cosmic microwave background radiation. We can tell this is happening through various break throughs in the past 20 years. We can also calculate the amount of time since the Big Bang. Break the information down if you want, we will always be limited to a small understanding on topics like this but that does not mean we can't take anything as fact.


The evidence of the big bang, the knowledge that it gives us does not explain how and why we are here. String theory and M theroy both do not explain anything beyond our universe. Faith is a part of life, it is needed because our preceptions limit our understanding. Science is also a part of life, I think you've closed your mind off to a long time ago Stylez. Maybe you should stop believing and start understanding, or at least "form some opinions" without a bible.

[Stylez]

For something yes, until human conscious is at a higher level. Theories are not accepted as true or taken as fact based on other unproven theories. I think your way of looking at science is wrong.


I know the Big bang happened because the universe is expanding, the laws of phyics break down closer to the Big Bang and we can today detect and measure Cosmic microwave background radiation. We can tell this is happening through various break throughs in the past 20 years. We can also calculate the amount of time since the Big Bang. Break the information down if you want, we will always be limited to a small understanding on topics like this but that does not mean we can't take anything as fact.


The evidence of the big bang, the knowledge that it gives us does not explain how and why we are here. String theory and M theroy both do not explain anything beyond our universe. Faith is a part of life, it is needed because our preceptions limit our understanding. Science is also a part of life, I think you've closed your mind off to a long time ago Stylez. Maybe you should stop believing and start understanding, or at least "form some opinions" without a bible.

Not at all, I've just come to realizations on things through the years... You say the universe is growing? How do you know for fact? Because of certain theories someone made? I mean, the universe is vast... We haven't even yet to discover the true potential of it... I'm not saying these things aren't true, I'm just saying you can't say for 100% fact, unless you witnessed it for yourself... I would think myself to be a very open minded person... Everyone has that point to where they wont go any further with a specific decision and/or topic, but that's expected...

I understand where you're coming from, but you're trying to prove me wrong on something I'm not even disagreeing with you on, I just don't believe you can prove them as facts... Do you even understand half the equation's people use to solve these astronomical problems? Or do you just look at the workings of a genius and just say, yea, that made complete sense, he's smart, so I'll just nod my head and agree... It's impossible to comprehend everything, certainly these types of problems, unless you studied into it for a long amounted time... So, with that being said, how do "you" know for fact that they are absolutely correct? And in turn, tell me how it wouldn't be considered an assumption if so...

[Theif of Time]

All religion has an Exoteric and Esoteric side

And some have an Erotic side

It does matter, translating is just transcribing one language to another, decoding has to be done with ancient languages, such as ancient Hebraic and hieroglyphics... All in which takes "professionals" to adapt these findings into something we can comprehend...

And even then, they can get it wrong. Things get lost in translation, because of subtle language differences. (And, sometimes, sloppy translaters)

theory is nothing more than a well educated opinion

In the sciences, a theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework describing the behaviour of a certain natural or social phenomenon

Extremely well educated, then? You can have your opinion on definitions, but it leads to a lot of confusion. Scientists (most of them) aim to disprove theories, find exceptions. An exception to a theory leads to a completely new theory, and in the world of scientific research, formulating your own theory leads to new knowledge.
And yes, science does make assumptions, but they are logically valid assumptions.

[Stylez]

And some have an Erotic side

And even then, they can get it wrong. Things get lost in translation, because of subtle language differences. (And, sometimes, sloppy translaters)

Extremely well educated, then? You can have your opinion on definitions, but it leads to a lot of confusion. Scientists (most of them) aim to disprove theories, find exceptions. An exception to a theory leads to a completely new theory, and in the world of scientific research, formulating your own theory leads to new knowledge.
And yes, science does make assumptions, but they are logically valid assumptions.

Thank you, Lord! Someone understands... :P

EDIT: Every language has its own dialects and slang, it'll be very improbable to translate them all...

[Kolar]

Not at all, I've just come to realizations on things through the years... You say the universe is growing? How do you know for fact? Because of certain theories someone made? I mean, the universe is vast... We haven't even yet to discover the true potential of it... I'm not saying these things aren't true, I'm just saying you can't say for 100% fact, unless you witnessed it for yourself... I would think myself to be a very open minded person... Everyone has that point to where they wont go any further with a specific decision and/or topic, but that's expected...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshift

I understand where you're coming from, but you're trying to prove me wrong on something I'm not even disagreeing with you on, I just don't believe you can prove them as facts... Do you even understand half the equation's people use to solve these astronomical problems? Or do you just look at the workigs of a genius and just say, yea, that made complete sense, he's smart, so I'll just nod my head and agree... It's impossible to comprehend everything, certainly these types of problems, unless you studied into it for a long amounted time... So, with that being said, how do "you" know for fact that they are absolutely correct? And in turn, tell me how it wouldn't be considered an assumption if so...

I am trying to show you how we can understand and prove things as fact by using your example of the Big Bang. Most of it is very easy when you look at it. Why not look at it yourself before discounting it and closing your eyes to it because it looks hard. Everything is quantifiable so we can use math to describe objects and happenings in our universe thus we form theroies. They are then proven to be true by solid and testable methods, or thrown out. We will always have this happening, even for the most basic things but that does not mean anything we know or think we know isn't true.

Edit: In a few more words I was trying to explain what ToT said. Miscommunication is one of the corner stones of the internet -_-.

[Stylez]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshift

I am trying to show you how we can understand and prove things as fact by using your example of the Big Bang. Most of it is very easy when you look at it. Why not look at it yourself before discounting it and closing your eyes to it because it looks hard. Everything is quantifiable so we can use math to describe objects and happenings in our universe thus we form theroies. They are then proven to be true by solid and testable methods, or thrown out. We will always have this happening, even for the most basic things but that does not mean anything we know or think we know isn't true.

Can you solve a problem with this equation?


Or this one?
z ≈ v/c

And can you understand how they work in the formula to determine what the mathematicians are trying to formulate? If not, then how do you even know what they are talking about? Can you work out everything they did and double check their work yourself? Ok then... Wouldn't that be called believing in something blindly and with haste? Who's the one with their eyes closed here?


Why are you so hell bent on trying to make me sound like I'm saying something I'm not? My sister takes astronomy at FSU, we debate on things like this all the time... It's funny how you try to use mathematical problems to determine nature/life, like it's predictable or something...

When you see a court case, do you always agree with the verdict given? Same thing here sort of...

Read this, this is basically what I'm trying to say, in a more elongated nutshell...

http://wilstar.com/theories.htm

[Kolar]

you're turned off to science because the nature of human understanding. It is always changing what we know, what we asume. How do I know the universe is expanding? I personally don't because I don't study the subject, I don't think you do either so I would suggest neither of us are educated or informed enough to talk about it without refering to texts. Work through it and come back, disprove it and take it to the scientific comunity if you want, that is how things work with respects to theories. The fact is it is what we know currently to be true but could change the next day. That feild of unsertanty is always getting smaller. I think we both on the same page here, I'm just not going to dumb it down any further for you.