Religion and Other Things

[Stylez]

Gotta love where this thread has went... -_-

I haven't read anything really since like 2 pages ago or so...

Haha, sorry about that... :P

[Kolar]

I still want someone to answer this with a legitimate response...

Go read up about the Big Bang and M theory, it's all very intresting stuff. The big bang is a model for how everything started and it is still disputed what existed before. M theory is one of the unification theories which brings some good ideas and thought to the matter before the big bang.

Based on some very educated assumptions made by SETI there are at least (in our galaxy) 40 civilizations capable of radio technology. Probably more sense new ideas and discoveries point to that figure being a lot higher, it was orignally conservative anyways. Tone is still crazy.

[Stylez]

Because most people see "God" as some superbeing who specifically created humans as humans (in his own image, in fact), not as evolved animals. They think he's responsible for all things and happenings directly, not just as something who set things in motion. These same people think that humans are some sort of special "only on one planet anywhere in the universe"-type thing.

I'm guessing you're the type that believes we'll all die like any other amimal, with such a dismal fate, with no hope... I'm sure you're also a very pessimistic person...

Religion has caused way more problems than it's ever solved, and is even at the core of some of the biggest problems we have today.

Same could be said about anything we humans tend to get our hands on... We usually make enough problems for ourselves... We certainly do a bang up job on giving excusses and finding reasons to blame others or something else rather than facing responsibility...

Believing in a creating force is one thing, and anyone can have faith in whatever they want to (I'm not about to stop you), but don't use it as a crutch.

And don't tell people how to run their lives... If it's what gets them throughout the day, then so be it... You act like you've gotten everything figured out... Well, answer me this, please do...

What if, what if when you die, there is/was "a" God?

That's it, answer me that... And don't give me some quick immature comment like, I guess I'd be screwed then... Answer it with the intention of actually understanding what feeling that terror of truth would feel like... Like how it would feel not just to talk about beating up someone, but actually being in their face and confronting them, instead of just talking all the time...

[Stylez]

Go read up about the Big Bang and M theory, it's all very intresting stuff. Based on some very educated assumptions made by SETI there are at least (in our galaxy) 40 civilizations capable of radio technology. Probably more sense new ideas and discoveries point to that figure being a lot higher, it was orignally conservative anyways. Tone is still crazy.

Ok, I will try too soon, you must remember, it's over a lot of complex math, so I want to fully understand what I'm getting into... I just know the basis of the Big Bang, never really did research into it... And, yes, Tone is crazy... :P

But answer those questions with a well thought out response of your own, I just need to know what you think on the matter, what everyone thinks on it... I want someone to prove me wrong or atleast try... I'm open for discussion...

[Kolar]

I'm guessing you're the type that believes we'll all die like any other amimal, with such a dismal fate, with no hope... I'm sure you're also a very pessimistic person...

We are special. We know that life is rare, and inteligent life is even more rare then anything. Ties to God and believing in doing his work or will really have caused a lot of problems.

Same could be said about anything we humans tend to get our hands on... We usually make enough problems for ourselves... We certainly do a bang up job on giving excusses and finding reasons to blame others or something else rather than facing responsibility...

That's what Conc meant. We as humans, influenced by religion or our beliefs cause a lot of problems.

And don't tell people how to run their lives... If it's what gets them throughthe day, then so be it... You act like you've gotten everything figured out... Well, answer me this, please do...

What if, what if when you die, there was "a" God?

That's it, answer me that... And don't give me some quick immature comment like, I guess I'd be screwed then... Answer it with the intention of actually understanding what feeling that terror of truth would feel like... Like how it would feel not just to talk about beating up someone, but actually being in their face and confronting them, instead of just talking all the time...

People do believe in god and in many things without believing in a religious doctrine. Religion is not needed for many people yet they still can believe in pecies of Christianity or any other religions. Beleving in small, out of this world ideas has caused problems. If god exists then anything he does inside this universe still has to adhere to the laws of phyics. 7 days as it is said is not enough time for the universe to even cool down enough or for more complex elements to form.

[Stylez]

The question is: Why call it God? Especially if (as 99.9% of people do) you are going to associate the word God with some type of supernatural intelligent entity that is responsible for our creation. If your problem is with spontaneous creation, then let me ask you this: what created/caused the creating force you speak of? Was it just "there"? No matter what belief you hold you must acknowledge that some thing or force existed before the existence of time and space as we know it and has no cause or creator. If you want to call that thing/force God, then whatever...its just a bad use of the word, because it's a word thats associated with a massive amount of other nonsense made up by the human mind throughout the history of man.

6 entries found for god.
god ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gd)
n.
God
A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
A very handsome man.
A powerful ruler or despot.

Why call him/her/it/the thing "God"? Because it is the source from which the people place their faith in, that they read and study and try and understand... They form their opinion on what the word "God" truly means, from one source, instead of many...

That definition is based upon every finding of the word God, through many different perspectives... Doesn't make it right or wrong...

Answer my question(s) above, I'd like to hear your reply on it...

[Kolar]

Ok, I will try too soon, you must remember, it's over a lot of complex math, so I want to fully understand what I'm getting into... I just know the basis of the Big Bang, never really did research into it... And, yes, Tone is crazy... :P

But answer that question/s with a well thought out repsonse of your own, I just need to know what you think on the matter, what everyone thinks on it... I want someone to prove me wrong or atleast try... I'm open for discussion...

I mean read into it as you would read into any subject. Just like picking up a bible, read what you can understand and ask professionals or teachers of the subject for help and guideance. I don't follow the lastest papers or study the subject much so I wouldn't be the best person to give you help on this. I think the Big Bang makes sense, M theory opens up some new questions, gives some answers but doesn't solve everything.

[Stylez]

We are special. We know that life is rare, and inteligent life is even more rare then anything. Ties to God and believing in doing his work or will really have caused a lot of problems.

It may have caused a lot of problems, but it is because of us, man, that let it cause them... Why place the blame on a book/religion? Does the book actually get up and kill people? Do you blame the .44 Calibur Killer's (Son of Sam) dog or the man himself? People find excusses to cause pandemonium amongst human civilization, but others use that one person as an excuss to blame his/her religion or whatever their using him/her for...

Say for example... A man, claiming to be chrisitan, bombs an abortion clinic in the name of God... Then a lot of non-christians in the world will use him as an example to mark their point in certain arguments... All in which I find pathetic and rather misleading to others...

That's what Conc meant. We as humans, influenced by religion or our beliefs cause a lot of problems.

But what I'm getting at is, a lot of the problems may be based on something, but it is man who still started it... Don't crucify something because of the wrong doings others have done... They don't speak on behalf of everyone else...

People do believe in god and in many things without believing in a religious dortine. Religion is not needed for many people yet they still can believe in pecies of critanity or any other religion. Beleving in small, out of this world ideas has caused problems. If god exists then anything he does inside this universe still has to adhere to the laws of phyics. 7 days as it is said is not enough time for the universe to even cool down enough or for more complex elements to form.

You may say you believe in this or that, but what would be the point? The simple fact of putting faith in God is to save your soul... You can say you believe in him, but that alone want save you...

Now, I understand you still have your own opinion of God and religion, and by all means, keep them, but I'm just clearing up what my side of the spectrum is getting at, atleast from my point of view...

And, a day in God's eyes could've meant 1,000,000 days, weeks, months, years, whatever... God knows not of time... That being said, why can't evolution, the big bang, and most of theories, and religion coexist? I'm not saying that is how things went about, but, I'm just giving you food for thought...

[Stylez]

I mean read into it as you would read into any subject. Just like picking up a bible, read what you can understand and ask professionals or teachers of the subject for help and guideance. I don't follow the lastest papers or study the subject much so I wouldn't be the best person to give you help on this. I think the Big Bang makes sense, M theory opens up some new questions, gives some answers but doesn't solve everything.

That's what I meant by, knowing what I'm getting myself into... Meaning, I want to understand it fully, with an open mind, which wouldn't be tonight, because I'm really tired, I had to work both jobs today and still study for a test... I'm pooped... :P

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

And don't tell people how to run their lives... If it's what gets them throughout the day, then so be it... You act like you've gotten everything figured out... Well, answer me this, please do...

What if, what if when you die, there is/was "a" God?

That's it, answer me that... And don't give me some quick immature comment like, I guess I'd be screwed then... Answer it with the intention of actually understanding what feeling that terror of truth would feel like... Like how it would feel not just to talk about beating up someone, but actually being in their face and confronting them, instead of just talking all the time...

When I die (and I will--I accept this fact although I don't consider myself an overly pessimistic person, just realistic), if I face "ultimate judgement" like you would believe, I think I'd do okay. I'm not saying that I don't live my life like there's no consequence--that's retarded. I live my life to make others around myself lives better. Why? Not because I'm afraid of some "afterlife" where I could spend my days on some ring of Dante's inferno, but because I just feel it's a good thing to do.

Because when it comes down to it, who's to say whose God is the "real one"? Are all Muslims going to Christian hell? Probably not. Are all Jews going to Christian hell? Probably not. Can you be that certain in your religion that you're making the right choice?

The point is this--I'm not too worried about how I'll be judged in some afterlife. Why? Because I'm not dead. I figure I'll do the best I've got with what I've got now, and I'll worry about God if I'm standing before St. Peter (or whoever it is--no way for you to tell either). I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

EDIT: So let me ask you a counter question. Say you die and you're judged by some other entity than your Christian God. What would you do?

[Kolar]

It may have caused a lot of problems, but it is because of us, man, that let it cause them... Why place the blame on a book/religion? Does the book actually get up and kill people? Do you blame the .44 Calibur Killer's (Son of Sam) dog or the man himself? People find excusses to cause pandemonium amongst human civilization, but others use that one person as an excuss to blame his/her religion or whatever their using him/her for...

It still leads back to people being influenced by religion. If the religion specificly marks abortion for example are wrong in any case and a man decides to bomb a clinic then yes, the instution that is chrisitanity is responciable for impressing that idea onto him, what he does is entirely up to him. Does that mean all Chrisitans would defend this man to the grave or that they believe he's doing god's work? No and it is not seen like that.

But what I'm getting at is, a lot of the problems may be based on something, but it is man who still started it... Don't crucify something because of the wrong doings others have done... They don't speak on behalf of everyone else...

There are more examples not as complicated as this. The invasion of the Middle East being the shining example. As you can see it has brought out the best and worst of our kind, religion that is but it can not hide from blame.

You may say you believe in this or that, but what would be the point? The simple fact of putting faith in God is to save your soul... You can say you believe in him, but that alone want save you...

The point is to understand and continue to understand Who we are, why are we here, what should we do ect ect.. In your world it would seem that way but you're believing in god so when you die your soul will goto a better place. I don't know if a soul exists or if god does even exists so I am not looking out of fear or to get a sweet deal. I am looking because it is human nature to learn and grow.

And, a day in God's eyes could've meant 1,000,000 days, weeks, months, years, whatever... God knows not of time... That being said, why can't evolution, the big bang, and most of theories, and religion coexist? I'm not saying that is how things went about, but, I'm just giving you food for thought...

As I've said before faith is needed because science will never be able to explain everything here. You have no idea how limited we are as humans. Religion and science can coexist, christianity's ideas on creation can be modified a small bit to fit into the mix, a lot of people actually have done that.

[Stylez]

When I die (and I will--I accept this fact although I don't consider myself an overly pessimistic person, just realistic), if I face "ultimate judgement" like you would believe, I think I'd do okay. I'm not saying that I don't live my life like there's no consequence--that's retarded. I live my life to make others around myself lives better. Why? Not because I'm afraid of some "afterlife" where I could spend my days on some ring of Dante's inferno, but because I just feel it's a good thing to do.

Because when it comes down to it, who's to say whose God is the "real one"? Are all Muslims going to Christian hell? Probably not. Are all Jews going to Christian hell? Probably not. Can you be that certain in your religion that you're making the right choice?

The point is this--I'm not too worried about how I'll be judged in some afterlife. Why? Because I'm not dead. I figure I'll do the best I've got with what I've got now, and I'll worry about God if I'm standing before St. Peter (or whoever it is--no way for you to tell either). I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Good answer, kudos...

[Stylez]

It still leads back to people being influenced by religion. If the religion specificly marks abortion for example are wrong in any case and a man decides to bomb a clinic then yes, the instution that is chrisitanity is responciable for impressing that idea onto him, what he does is entirely up to him. Does that mean all Chrisitans would defend this man to the grave or that they believe he's doing god's work? No and it is not seen like that.

The bible also stats that murdering people is a sin as well... You can't neglect one for another... When you react to something in life, you have to remember every guideline to follow by, not just one... You can be doing something with just cause, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do...

There are more examples not as complicated as this. The invasion of the Middle East being the shining example. As you can see it has brought out the best and worst of our kind, religion that is but it can not hide from blame.

I'd blame it more on the leaders of those factions more so than the religion they believe in... Anyone can use something to their advantage... All they need is someone gullible enough to follow them... The religion doesn't choose you, you choose the religion...

A good analogy of this would be the media... They use the beautiful people to get the average, to not so good looking people, to follow what they say by making them want to be something they shouldn't...

The point is to understand and continue to understand Who we are, why are we here, what should we do ect ect.. In your world it would seem that way but you're believing in god so when you die your soul will goto a better place. I don't know if a soul exists or if god does even exists so I am not looking out of fear or to get a sweet deal. I am looking because it is human nature to learn and grow.

I don't believe in God, I put faith into him... I can't prove he's real, so a belief structure is thrown out the window... But I can tell you, when I wake up everyday, I'm not afraid to die, and that is worth putting faith into something/someone... But I do it through research, I don't put faith into something blindingly...

As I've said before faith is needed because science will never be able to explain everything here. You have no idea how limited we are as humans. Religion and science can coexist, christianity's ideas on creation can be modified a small bit to fit into the mix, a lot of people actually have done that.

Two of those "a lot of people" are me and my sister... :P

We've went on for along time debating on that subject...

[Theif of Time]

(apologises in advance for big post, this covers two pages 0_o)

ou all do know that the word dinosaur wasn't used during those times right?

Not in its current context, no. Dinosaur is derived from latin, and Latin sure was used then. It was only coined when fossils of dinosaurs were discovered.

Typo's would be mistakes whilst typing... That wasn't a mistake, it was the lack of knowledge to remember how to spell a simplistic word...

Everyone, take a quick glance at my name.

To them a "dinosaur" might not of served a purpose for which to talk about, a lot of animals never were mentioned in the bible, why should "dinosaurs"?

If dinosaurs existed in that timeframe, let me assure you they would have been wrote about. Imagine, Jurrassic park meets The Passion of the Christ. But they didn't.

And how does a "Big Bang" go about creating an atmosphere?...

Gravitation. Its not Big Bang.

ou can argue we already have been hit by one billions/millions of years ago, but you don't know that, that's a hypothesis...

I think theres craters of some significantly large meteors. Remember than in the timeframe of the universe, measured in Aeons, Humanity has existed on the earth for a very small time.

Half life ... erosion and great deals of pressure

Pressure has little or no effect on radiation.

why in the hell are we worried about finding it?

By nature we're curious.

Didn't I say, "How we have one of the, if not, biggest stars right next to us"?

Um, WTF?
We do not have a big star next to us, compared to other stars! Its big enough, sure. But its not one of the biggest, if it was... that would be catastrophic.

We have materials durable enough to withstand the heat, why can't we?

Not at the 5000-6000 Kelvin that is hypothesised.
Consider: It is molten. It is also at such great temperatures that most materials would either be in a liquid or vapour phase, we simply cannot get anything solid down there with our current technology. It would either melt, or implode upon itself. And this temperature is not idle speculation. Magma coming from the earths core is incredibly hot. Hawaiian lava is about 1400K. This is around about the melting point of most metals. Considering that this liquid is escaping from beneath the earths crust, a pressure is applied to it when it is below the crust. As it reaches the air, that pressure is relieved and it cools down, quite significantly.

Most theories can't be based upon facts...

Incorrect. They are based upon factual observations, consequent observations contradicting them prove them wrong.

We have metals that a nearly indestructible at even greater amounts of heat and pressure then what you describe the earths core as having... Why can't we?

What? What metals are you speaking of?
Wikipedia says:
" The material with the highest known melting point at atmospheric pressure is graphite, with a melting point of 3948 kelvins. "
Materials tend to lose their strengths far before they reach their melting points. Its possible we could send a lump of graphite to the centre of the earth. Woot.

To say that there never was a creating force is silly. So, why not call this creating force God?

I agree. But why call it God? why not Gods? Why must there be just one?

I'll give those questions a go.
You believe time began some where, correct?
>In short, I don't know. If it began somewhere, that implies it ends. I believe that time is relative as per relativity, but I'm not sure of the existance of an absolute zero of time. Let me ask you a question,
You believe the universe had to of been created some how, correct?
>Yes, I believe it was created. Something happened that brought our existance into what we losely define as reality (perhaps it acquired some quality that I shall simply call "reality"), I believe that it existed before that as a potential universe, and that infinite other universes also exist as potential universes. But they will not exist until whatever it is that makes our universe exist leaves out universe, and travels to one of those other universes.
You believe in the Big Bang Theory?
>I see no reason to disbelieve it. I don't hold it as the absolute truth, however.
Do you believe in interplanetary dimensions?
>Infinite potential dimensions. But this question is very ambiguous. My answer up a couple questions shows what I believe.
Do you believe in Aliens?
>Yes. You're an alien. Anyone foreigner is by definition, an alien. But you mean extraterrestrial. I do believe they exist, somewhere, somewhen. They may even be us.

> How was there even a universe if nothing or no one was here to create it?
That is actually a good question. The answer is, it can't. But it is, or we perceive it to be, so it must be. IMO, it is silly to personify a creator. It created us: it is likely we can never truly know it.

I'm guessing you're the type that believes we'll all die like any other amimal, with such a dismal fate, with no hope... I'm sure you're also a very pessimistic person...

We will die like any other animal. We are simply animals with expanded consciousness. What happens to our consciousness, though? If it can exist without our body... then it is anybodies guess what happens.

BTW, I would recommend the book Science of the Discworld III. Its mainly about Darwin, but it does have its little essays on things such as Unifying theories, the nature of infinity, etc.
(apoligises a second time for big post.)

[Stylez]

I would answer most of those, but, in a nutshell...

Most you have misunderstood where I was going at with them... Which I'm not blaming you, but the stupid internet and lack of tone of voice and other significant things that can go into explaining something...

Also, stop omitting my thoughts with your own, you can elaborate on mine without finding them completely absurd...

Second, there are materials that can withstand that heat... Don't ask me what they are, because I can't remember, google it? I don't know...

.... I can't remember, let me Submit this and answer a few others...