Religion and Other Things

[Stylez]

(apologises in advance for big post, this covers two pages)

Not in its current context, no. Dinosaur is derived from latin, and Latin sure was used then. It was only coined when fossils of dinosaurs were discovered.

Bah, why'd you make me do this...

Ok, here it goes...

Because the origin of a word is derived from another ancient text doesn't mean it was still current during those times... We have tons of words today that we hardly ever use and/or know about...

Everyone, take a quick glance at my name.

He mispelt the word "uncertainty" with "unsertanty"" or something like that... That's completely different...

If dinosaurs existed in that timeframe, let me assure you they would have been wrote about. Imagine, Jurrassic park meets The Passion of the Christ. But they didn't.

You don't know that... And, technically, they were, if you would like to call a Behemoth and Leviathan, dinosaurs...

Gravitation. Its not Big Bang.

You misunderstood me... I wanted to know how an atmosphere, along with other things, were created through a Big Bang...

I think theres craters of some significantly large meteors. Remember than in the timeframe of the universe, measured in Aeons, Humanity has existed on the earth for a very small time.

You think, you don't know... Nor do I... So, neither us could say...

Pressure has little or no effect on radiation.

Misunderstood me on this as well... Pressure has something to do with the formation of the objects and the things it is made of... Radiation can't accurately determine something like that...

By nature we're curious.

By curious, we are evil... Curiosity killed the cat...

Um, WTF?
We do not have a big star next to us, compared to other stars! Its big enough, sure. But its not one of the biggest, if it was... that would be catastrophic.

I said one of the biggest... I look up outside, I see that it's big, enough said... :P

Ok, so I didn't know that one... ^-^

Not at the 5000-6000 Kelvin that is hypothesised.
Consider: It is molten. It is also at such great temperatures that most materials would either be in a liquid or vapour phase, we simply cannot get anything solid down there with our current technology. It would either melt, or implode upon itself. And this temperature is not idle speculation. Magma coming from the earths core is incredibly hot. Hawaiian lava is about 1400K. This is around about the melting point of most metals. Considering that this liquid is escaping from beneath the earths crust, a pressure is applied to it when it is below the crust. As it reaches the air, that pressure is relieved and it cools down, quite significantly.

Answered this one...

Incorrect. They are based upon factual observations, consequent observations contradicting them prove them wrong.

Factual observations, yes, but the theories themselves can't be facts...

What? What metals are you speaking of?
Wikipedia says:
" The material with the highest known melting point at atmospheric pressure is graphite, with a melting point of 3948 kelvins. "
Materials tend to lose their strengths far before they reach their melting points. Its possible we could send a lump of graphite to the centre of the earth. Woot.

There are ways to build things to withstand certain elements, we don't just have to send a piece of meterial to the earths cores, we can build a device, surrounded by a cooling unit or something, I have no idea, nor do I care, I was just answering a question...

I agree. But why call it God? why not Gods? Why must there be just one?

And why not just call him God? Because I have faith in my religion, you should try it sometime...

I'll give those questions a go.
You believe time began some where, correct?
>In short, I don't know. If it began somewhere, that implies it ends. I believe that time is relative as per relativity, but I'm not sure of the existance of an absolute zero of time. Let me ask you a question,
You believe the universe had to of been created some how, correct?
>Yes, I believe it was created. Something happened that brought our existance into what we losely define as reality (perhaps it acquired some quality that I shall simply call "reality"), I believe that it existed before that as a potential universe, and that infinite other universes also exist as potential universes. But they will not exist until whatever it is that makes our universe exist leaves out universe, and travels to one of those other universes.
You believe in the Big Bang Theory?
>I see no reason to disbelieve it. I don't hold it as the absolute truth, however.
Do you believe in interplanetary dimensions?
>Infinite potential dimensions. But this question is very ambiguous. My answer up a couple questions shows what I believe.
Do you believe in Aliens?
>Yes. You're an alien. Anyone foreigner is by definition, an alien. But you mean extraterrestrial. I do believe they exist, somewhere, somewhen. They may even be us.

> How was there even a universe if nothing or no one was here to create it?
That is actually a good question. The answer is, it can't. But it is, or we perceive it to be, so it must be. IMO, it is silly to personify a creator. It created us: it is likely we can never truly know it.

The purpose behind those questions was to put them together and formulate your idea from there, not split them up into individual questions...

We will die like any other animal. We are simply animals with expanded consciousness. What happens to our consciousness, though? If it can exist without our body... then it is anybodies guess what happens.

That's what I meant, ass... :P

BTW, I would recommend the book Science of the Discworld III. Its mainly about Darwin, but it does have its little essays on things such as Unifying theories, the nature of infinity, etc.
(apoligises a second time for big post.)

I'll look into it...

[Kolar]

The bible also stats that murdering people is a sin as well... You can't neglect one for another... When you react to something in life, you have to remember every guideline to follow by, not just one... You can be doing something with just cause, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do...

There's also the rule of law. It has influenced people to act out these things. You can not deny that. The goal of this is to change those ideas, not to blame people and do nothing. I wish tolerance was preaced more often and social issues were confronted then personal and political issues like abortion.

I'd blame it more on the leaders of those factions more so than the religion they believe in... Anyone can use something to their advantage... All they need is someone gullible enough to follow them... The religion doesn't choose you, you choose the religion...

The church lead it and allowed it because killing other Christians was a sin but killing mulsims wasn't, by church law. Religions can be held responcable for what they teach and do as an organized group. If you tell anyone that chritanity wasn't respoanble for this they'll laugh at you. Any group and their teaching methods/documentation can and will be criticized if they produce people who would comit acts of violence and terrorism. At the same time the hope and intent is not to trash or discredit a religion, only to help them change their methods and philosophies.

I don't believe in God, I put faith into him... I can't prove he's real, so a belief structure is thrown out the window... But I can tell you, when I wake up everyday, I'm not afraid to die, and that is worth putting faith into something/someone... But I do it through research, I don't put faith into something blindingly...

I'm not afraid to die eventually (I still have 60 or more years to live..). The possiablity of dying and there being nothing is pretty small to me but if that's how it is then that's how it is. I wouldn't believe in anything out of fear.

[Saturn V]

Ugh, a lot has happened since I was last here. It seems things are still going on the same, though.

Random Situation1: Oh this debate is taking so long, you suck, I win!
Random Situation2: It just works, end of discussion, go die....
Random Situation3: I hate your opinion, fuck off...
Random Situation4: I had a legitimate response to reply with, but I didn't want to put you to shame...

That's pretty much how I feel (except for number three). As you can see, this type of topic never gets anywhere, especially on the forums of a spaceship game.

I've had this type of debate many, many times in real life. It never goes anywhere there, either.

However, reading your posts make it seem like you're too scared to accept anything as true, like you might get hurt or something. Why?

[Stylez]

However, reading your posts make it seem like you're too scared to accept anything as true, like you might get hurt or something. Why?

Not get hurt, but am very skeptical... If I put faith into something, I want to know why I am and you all are helping me in your own ways...

[Tone]

say, i wonder what god will say or think when man plays god and corrects its flaws with the use of biotechnology. it seems man will do better than god, fix bugs, update, and create human v 2.0 sometime in the forseeable future. i wonder what god would think about unnatural life spans and unimaginable levels of profound wellbeing.

[Stylez]

Can we all just say, TONE SHUT UP!

I'm sorry, but I will never answer your replies... You don't debate with anyone, you just use them to further your inane views of things... I wont help you out either...

You waste of oxygen...

[Saturn V]

You misunderstood me... I wanted to know how an atmosphere, along with other things, were created through a Big Bang...

Our atmospshere is the result of geologic processes. Several good books available about the subject.

[Stylez]

There's also the rule of law. It has influenced people to act out these things. You can not deny that. The goal of this is to change those ideas, not to blame people and do nothing. I wish tolerance was preaced more often and social issues were confronted then personal and political issues like abortion.

Eh, true, but it's still an excuss...

The church lead it and allowed it because killing other Christians was a sin but killing mulsims wasn't, by church law. Religions can be held responcable for what they teach and do as an organized group. If you tell anyone that chritanity wasn't respoanble for this they'll laugh at you. Any group and their teaching methods/documentation can and will be criticized if they produce people who would comit acts of violence and terrorism. At the same time the hope and intent is not to trash or discredit a religion, only to help them change their methods and philosophies.

The religion can be, doesn't mean it should... Like I said, the words of the bible are meant to help, they don't do the killing, the people who misuse the word, does...

I'm not afraid to die eventually (I still have 60 or more years to live..). The possiablity of dying and there being nothing is pretty small to me but if that's how it is then that's how it is. I wouldn't believe in anything out of fear.

You don't know that, you could die in, now! Ha, j/k

But yea, I have no more of a clue than you do, I'm just as lost as you are on this, I'm just speculating around is all...

Sorry, I'm a little out of it...

[Kolar]

The religion can be, doesn't mean it should... Like I said, the words of the bible are meant to help, they don't do the killing, the people who misuse the word, does...

It should be if what it teaches leads people into comiting murder or comitting acts of terrorism. Remember the goal is to change and bring light to the possiablity of change, not to discredit people or institutions.

Excusses are one thing but inciting, encouging and setting up the belief struture that lead people to invade the Middle East and only leaves you with the fact that it was a holy war, it was Chritianity's doing and it is not something to be proud of or something to mess around with here. The majority of people did it for their religion.

Edit: I don't think Chritians speculate about things. You believe in an after life, in god, pure good and pure evil, souls and a lot more. This is not speculation to Chritians, it is real.

[Stylez]

It should be if what it teaches leads people into comiting murder or comitting acts of terrorism. Remember the goal is to change and bring light to the possiablity of change, not to discredit people or institutions.

Excusses are one thing but inciting, encouging and setting up the belief struture that lead people to invade the Middle East and only leaves you with the fact that it was a holy war, it was Chritianity's doing and it is not something to be proud of or something to mess around with here. The majority of people did it for their religion.

Edit: I don't think Chritians speculate about things. You believe in an after life, in god, pure good and pure evil, souls and a lot more. This is not speculation to Chritians, it is real.

Where in the bible does it tell someone to go kill for the sake of God? Anyone can take anything in life and make it into whatever they want, with careful planning and an imagination...

You're completely misconstruing the situation... People may do it because of the religion, doesn't mean the religion is at fault here... No where in the bible does it tell someone to kill for God... You have to have knowledge and understanding when you read something... The majority of christians aren't just out killing numerous people... Plus, the people in the Middle East who are fighting the religious war aren't doing it just because of their religion...

Until you actually open up the bible for yourself and read it and study it, you'll never have any ground on which to speak of this subject... You, yourself are just speculating on reasons why someone might be doing this or that and it isn't right... Certainly when you really have no knowledge pertaining to the matter... It's like if I told you that you couldn't play a certain video game because of an article I read in the paper about it having violent features about it, yet, never really sitting down and watch you play it or play it for myself... Not the best analogy, but I tried... :P

And how in the hell are you going to think for me or anyone for that matter? To some people it may be real, to others, they may just hope it is... You're being stereotypical of millions of people here...

[Kolar]

If the bible effects someone and they go kill a person the methods and documentation can be critizied. I'm saying that if a religion believes in something strongly like abortion or rightfully owning a land and a religion impresses that idea beyond the limits, without showing or reminding them that people are just people, they're not evil or anything. Do you see what I am saying? Although the text and beliefs may be one way and curtainly not all people believe in that the ideas can be taken too far, loop holes can form..


What people do and how they interpret things is their own but what religious leaders and the texts say also can be held acountable for not being clear enough or not making things like killing is a sin, clear enough. Just think about it, if this didn't happen how would anything change? Drop the bullshit analogies and stop the stupid ass lines as if I'm thinking for you. Christians know this stuff to be real, there's no speculation and there's no comming to other conclusions ever. I'm not gonna trash what they believe here but that is what Christianity is and this is how the world is, acoutablility. Any person or group can be held acountable, religion is no different.



Edit: So to make it clear, religions can be held responsible for leaving things up to interpretation, taking subjects to far so they make acts out to be purely evil, anyone doing it is not subject to law or worthy of "redemption" (dehumanizing said people) and in the past encouging acts of violence. Wheather the holy war was used by people or not for political gain doesn't matter, it wasn't condemned by the church and they sure as hell didn't want it to stop. It wasn't lead by any one political leader but by the church because it was seen as all of them even Kings were under god in this. All of this is meant to help people learn and not do this ever again, nothing more. Their teachings, moral judgment and thoughts on this failed and they kill thousands of people. Do you think they'll ever do it again knowing it was their fault?

[Escalate]

Im with Conc. If there is a God and he sends good people to hell for the simple reason that they didn't believe in him, then fuck him, I'd rather roast with the devil, at least hes not a hypocrite.

[Tone]

Can we all just say, TONE SHUT UP!

I'm sorry, but I will never answer your replies... You don't debate with anyone, you just use them to further your inane views of things... I wont help you out either...

You waste of oxygen...

i had a quick debate with you where you asked me some questions, i answered them, then asked you a question and you threw a tantrum. remember about how i very clearly answered your questions, then very clearly asked about the bible as an exclusive path to god and then remember how you responded with one angry sentence, something about being a sociopath? dont you tell me to shut up for making clear posts of real issues while the rest are in boring quote by quote break down wars of useless crap

[Tone]

if you live in a remote area and have either much less access to, or its much less popular, or you never even heard of the bible, then you are just unlucky. it depends on where you are born and stuff, good luck about avoiding hell and finding god.

[Stylez]

Im with Conc. If there is a God and he sends good people to hell for the simple reason that they didn't believe in him, then fuck him, I'd rather roast with the devil, at least hes not a hypocrite.

Well, he did create this world for us, wouldn't you think giving him thanks and atleast worshiping him one day of the week would be asking to much? And the devil is a hypocrite... He promises lots of things, but he'll never come through with them... And you wont be with the devil, you'll be all alone, in complete darkness, burning... Stating it from a christian perspective...

But do what you do man... Hopefully the bible will be wrong, if not, well, you get the picture...