Religion and Other Things

[Escalate]

He created this world for us? Look at this world. For hundreds of millions of people this world itself is hell. I wouldn't worship something that created this and I wouldn't worship something that demanded that it be worshipped.

[Stylez]

If the bible effects someone and they go kill a person the methods and documentation can be critizied. I'm saying that if a religion believes in something strongly like abortion or rightfully owning a land and a religion impresses that idea beyond the limits, without showing or reminding them that people are just people, they're not evil or anything. Do you see what I am saying? Although the text and beliefs may be one way and curtainly not all people believe in that the ideas can be taken too far, loop holes can form..

If you read the bible, you'll understand it... It's not hard, it's like reading any other book... There's parts that give metaphor's for certain meanings, but nothing that you can't understand with some thought... The more important commandments are things that stand in literal terms and are written in straight forward literation's...

You can keep blaming the bible or any religion, but in the end, it is still man who decides his or her own fate... If you choose to kill someone, that is a risk you're taking... If you want to pervert the word to conform to your lifestyle, then God wont have any mercy on you...

God said that any man/woman that says/thinks they are mightier than God himself will have his/her name erased from the book of life...

What people do and how they interpret things is their own but what religious leaders and the texts say also can be held acountable for not being clear enough or not making things like killing is a sin, clear enough. Just think about it, if this didn't happen how would anything change? Drop the bullshit analogies and stop the stupid ass lines as if I'm thinking for you. Christians know this stuff to be real, there's no speculation and there's no comming to other conclusions ever. I'm not gonna trash what they believe here but that is what Christianity is and this is how the world is, acoutablility. Any person or group can be held acountable, religion is no different.

The bible clearly defines that killing someone is a sin... This is where reading the source of your debate comes in, you have no clue on how many times in the bible it has stories and/or commandments to not kill anyone, no matter the reason... Now, someone might misinterpret it, but that is mainly because they want to... Anyone can come up with a different conclusion, why do you think there are so many different denominations today?

People do nothing but speculate on religion their entire life, because really, you don't have choice, you have nothing more than a book and your faith to rely on... So yes, I'm not a saint, but I do have faith in God, but I speculate on things all the time...

Edit: So to make it clear, religions can be held responsible for leaving things up to interpretation, taking subjects to far so they make acts out to be purely evil, anyone doing it is not subject to law or worthy of "redemption" (dehumanizing said people) and in the past encouging acts of violence. Wheather the holy war was used by people or not for political gain doesn't matter, it wasn't condemned by the church and they sure as hell didn't want it to stop. It wasn't lead by any one political leader but by the church because it was seen as all of them even Kings were under god in this. All of this is meant to help people learn and not do this ever again, nothing more. Their teachings, moral judgment and thoughts on this failed and they kill thousands of people. Do you think they'll ever do it again knowing it was their fault?

Do you believe television, music, and videogames are the cause of most the violence in todays society? Because you're implying the same thing about religions...

I said it once and I'll say it again... The religion, itself, doesn't encourage anyone, the people who use it for their own purposes do... It's up to you to understand and choose who and what to listen to... Me? I choose to listen to myself, read the bible myself, and understand it from my point of view... Don't get me wrong, I take in what others say, but I only apply things they might say that I might not of thought of before and might of made sense to me...

Do humans still have wars, regardless if it's a religious war? Yes, they do... Because through generations, people will forget, and not understand how it felt to be in that situation, thus history will always repeat itself...

[Stylez]

He created this world for us? Look at this world. For hundreds of millions of people this world itself is hell. I wouldn't worship something that created this and I wouldn't worship something that demanded that it be worshipped.

It's only a bad place if you make it that way... He gave you the opportunity to experience life and yet, you spit in his face...

Maybe he doesn't exist, I don't know, but I do know I wont have to stand in front of him one day and explain myself to him, that's if he does exist...

[Tone]

in revealations, the bible says that no one will be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast on their hand or forhead, which is 666. the bible is of course talking about the future cashless society we will live in where implanted RF chips are like debit and credit. by the way, bar codes on items all have 666 embeded in them on purpose.

[Kolar]

Groups can still effect people but what a person does after being effect is still their own doing. You can't only blame one or the other. The bible is open to inturpretation by everyone who reads it and sometimes less importants is placed on rules or laws because almost everything is in conflict, nothing fits right. It all doesn't matter, religion exists, it effects people and all that does matter is how we examine teaching methods and texts when something happens.

The problems are messed up and confused but you can not say religion doesn't have a hand in effecting people. As a Christian everything is set in stone. God exists, he loves you, you get into heaven for following 2,000 year old book and everything to you and other Christians makes sense. I think you're confused about who and what you are. I don't see any point in continuing this, for fuck sakes you're trying to tell me Christianity had nothing to do with the Crusades.


And yet by leaving the door open to inturpretation, marking people as evil they've allowed it to happen. It isn't what the wanted but it did. Change, that's all people want, not more excusses. It's funny "history repeating its self", this is what I am trying to tell you. If religions are not blamed for rightfully having a hand in murder, slavery, tourture and everything else then WE as HUMANS CAN NOT LEARN. I don't think you're listening to me anymore anyways but think about it, if Christianity didn't exist would gay people still be attacked? would the crusades have happened? What other social problems are caused by it? I'm not saying the message is wrong, people can believe what they want but good intentions have fucked the Planet Earth far too many times to count.

[Saturn V]

in revealations, the bible says that no one will be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast on their hand or forhead, which is 666. the bible is of course talking about the future cashless society we will live in where implanted RF chips are like debit and credit. by the way, bar codes on items all have 666 embeded in them on purpose.

Revelation.

[Saturn V]

Kolar, save your breath. Reason isn't found here.

[Theif of Time]

Stylez, by one of your previous posts I assume that you believe that the existnce of the world as it is (so that everything is right for us to exist) proves that it was created by a divine purpose. I'd like to hear your reasoning, because I believe that we can live here because we have adapted to the environment, (this kind of thing happens: people adapt to high altitudes, different diets, etc.) rather than the environment created for us. If I apply a creator in there somewhere, I find it a much more elegant solution for the creations to be able to change, and thus Live in a wider variety of environments.

[Escalate]

It's only a bad place if you make it that way...

Tell that to the kids in 3rd world countries born into lives of disease infested starvation. Or the people born severely handicapped or disabled, or born with diseases that are soon to kill them. Did they make it that way? I'm not talking about myself here, my life is fine. I'm talking about the world God created.

[Theif of Time]

It's only a bad place if other people make it that way, or natural disasters make it that way. Or the weather, or luck, or fate...

[Stylez]

Tell that to the kids in 3rd world countries born into lives of disease infested starvation. Or the people born severely handicapped or disabled, or born with diseases that are soon to kill them. Did they make it that way? I'm not talking about myself here, my life is fine. I'm talking about the world God created.

What's funny is, those kids are happy with their lives more so then we our with our own... Even with all our possessions and money, we still aren't satisfied... You say you're just fine with yours, then why say what you did in the first place? There has to be something wrong with your life for you to just come off saying something like that...

[Escalate]

What's funny is, those kids are happy with their lives more so then we our with our own... Even with all our possessions and money, we are still aren't satisfied... You say you're just fine with yours, then why say what you did in the first place? There has to be something wrong with your life for you to just come off saying something like that...

I'm very satisfied. But I don't believe you when you say that the 3 year old kid starving to death, born with HIV, that lays around in a mass of flies and maggots in a makeshift "hospital" in Africa is happy with his life.

I said what I said because it's an argument against the existence of a kind hearted and merciful god, and this is a discussion on that topic.

[Troll King]

Stop it already. The one thing these threads have proven time and time again is that most of us here are not capable of having this discussion. And I'm referring to people on both sides of this discussion when I say that. We're either not informed enough to have a proper discourse or our arguments are too clouded by our personal biases.

[Theif of Time]

They're happy because its all the know, they think that the suffering (starvation, disease, etc.) is natural, a part of life.
Well, it is, but to the extent that they suffer it?

I had a friend who was adobted out of an orphanage in Romania. He never knew his parents, he only recalls a bit of life when he was over there, but I can tell you he likes it a lot better here than he does there. In the first few days he was over here, he tasted pizza for the first time (his adopted mother says it was the first time he'd had so much food) and literally scoffed it down. (of course, he got a bit sick afterwards...)
I know its not the same, as he hasn't been living in a third world country his whole life, but he's had more first hand experience at it than me (and I'll wager more than any others here)

[Escalate]

Stop it already. The one thing these threads have proven time and time again is that most of us here are not capable of having this discussion. And I'm referring to people on both sides of this discussion when I say that. We're either not informed enough to have a proper discourse or our arguments are too clouded by our personal biases.

The discussions are for entertainment value only. As long as everyone wants to participate and no one is being hurt I dont see why we should stop just because we arent convincing one another.