Hey Asian guys, got a question.

[Rion.]

Interesting... I'm a white guy and I've always found Asian girls really attractive. Not in a 'fetish' kinda way, but I mean even in primary school, we'd sometimes have school visits from 16ish year old Japanese people, and I always thought that the girls were really pretty. Similarly, I have a thing for redheads. :wub:

I read that Curse of the Asian Man page and it was kinda... How to put it... Insightful. As a guy I can't really comment, and I don't know many Asian guys, but the one Chinese guy I got to know pretty well was awesome. ^-^

[Liquid Blue]

That's what you don't understand. There are plenty of asian guys in the asian media that are cool and whatever. It's just that the standards of 'cool' and what is 'desirable' is different in Asia than it is in North America. So either asian guys BECOME white, or they aren't 'attractive' to most non-asian women in North America. Not to mention that the 'asian accent' in speaking English isn't exactly considered sexy by any means, even by other asians

Unless we asians decided to completely abandon our heritage (ignoring the fact that physically they are already not what western women are looking for in general) there's not much to pick from and so every extra asian girl that has a white boyfriend is one less girl to choose from.

As for the guy who said that blacks don't get the same respect in the media you're so completely and absolutely wrong. Think Denzel Washington, Halle Berry, Beyonce, and so on and so on.

How can you talk about either asians become white or they aren't seen as attractive in North American culture, and then talk about how Denzel Washington and Halle Berry are representing black people and black culture? Beyonce? You're kidding right? Light skin, straightened hair? Her speech patterns, clothing, etc etc these days are straight up white girl. She's lightly darker than some spanish chicks, has straight hair, and talks like a white woman her age, with just a lower voice.

Denzel Washington, Halle Berry? Think of the roles they have had in the past 10 years, and replace them with white actors. Would you notice a difference in 90% of those movies? No, not really. Finding roles for black males that don't end up as stereotypes is just as bad as it is for the asian community. Black females? Almost non-existant in North American culture, unless it's a movie catered to black people specifically.

Denzel's past recent roles off the top of my head- training day, man on fire, (that movie where he got framed for murder in the south and went on revenge) , etc etc

Notice a trend? Black males usually get portrayed as angry, seeking revenge or violent. I've seen Washington in a play (make one by shakespear), and a few other positive roles, so I know he doesn't only pick these action-oriented roles. It's the main stuff that's give to him.

Halle? Die another Day, Swordfish, X-Men (come on, she acted white in that too), etc etc.

With Black females, it's not so much of a stereotyping thing, it's just that alot of movies and scripts don't have stand out roles for them.


Of course then you could go off topic about what exactly makes a role white or black, and how is one role or stereotype more racial then another, but I won't go down that road if you won't. Just trying to say the examples you used for Black people are the exact thing you're saying that asian people would have to do.

[Epinephrine]

How can you talk about either asians become white or they aren't seen as attractive in North American culture, and then talk about how Denzel Washington and Halle Berry are representing black people and black culture? Beyonce? You're kidding right? Light skin, straightened hair? Her speech patterns, clothing, etc etc these days are straight up white girl. She's lightly darker than some spanish chicks, has straight hair, and talks like a white woman her age, with just a lower voice.

Denzel Washington, Halle Berry? Think of the roles they have had in the past 10 years, and replace them with white actors. Would you notice a difference in 90% of those movies? No, not really. Finding roles for black males that don't end up as stereotypes is just as bad as it is for the asian community. Black females? Almost non-existant in North American culture, unless it's a movie catered to black people specifically.

Denzel's past recent roles off the top of my head- training day, man on fire, (that movie where he got framed for murder in the south and went on revenge) , etc etc

Notice a trend? Black males usually get portrayed as angry, seeking revenge or violent. I've seen Washington in a play (make one by shakespear), and a few other positive roles, so I know he doesn't only pick these action-oriented roles. It's the main stuff that's give to him.

Halle? Die another Day, Swordfish, X-Men (come on, she acted white in that too), etc etc.

With Black females, it's not so much of a stereotyping thing, it's just that alot of movies and scripts don't have stand out roles for them.


Of course then you could go off topic about what exactly makes a role white or black, and how is one role or stereotype more racial then another, but I won't go down that road if you won't. Just trying to say the examples you used for Black people are the exact thing you're saying that asian people would have to do.

You're proved my point actually. The fact is, black actors CAN play 'white roles' because being black is finally starting to be pretty normal in America, normal enough that they are interchangable. Normal enough so that black people are sexually desirable enough so that they can play roles previously reserved for white people because the general public actually want to acknowledge them in these roles. Meanwhile being 'asian' still means kung-fu guy or obligatory geek/scientist type guy in movies.

The point is, being black in America can mean a lot of things... anything from being Halle Berry to being 50 cent. I urge you to find lots of black women who wouldn't find Denzel attractive and then find lots of white women who woudln't think the same. Perhaps my examples aren't wide ranging enough. Do you ever see an asian Snoop Dog going around getting chicks to go naked for them? Do you ever see asian music stars out there like 50 cent, Kayne West and JayZ? Because they can mean a lot of things, black people are seen as much more 'cool' and sexually desirable than asians in the media and in the general western population.

Asians don't seem to have anything at all beyond kung-fu skills and an uncanny ability to 'study non-stop' as people in this thread keep describing us as. For some reason we can't just be 'normal people'. Try and find women (any women) who actually think Jet Li with his pockmarked face, or Jackie Chan as actually attractive and you won't. Sure they can kick some ass, but seen as sexy? I hardly think so.

Actually the thing is, I actually wonder if black women feel the same way as asian men do. I seem to personally see much more black men with white women then the other way around, but perhaps I'm just not noticing enough.


As for my comment on asians abandoning their heritage, it's a fact that most asians in North America are first or second generation immigrants. Blacks have been here for centuries. There's not much for them to abandon, because they ARE people from here. It's not like they brought hip hop from the old country, they made it here, and last I noticed, a lot of non-black people love much of the culture that blacks have pioneered in North America too. Meanwhile asians just got here, and for a lot of us, it's not as simple as just fitting in perfectly, but it takes a bit of active effort to be sufficiently 'white' enough to be desirable. If we're just ourselves, we're seen as overly geeky and scrawny, while black guys are seen as great dancers with huge dicks and muscular bodies.

[RATTY...]

You sound so angry Epi. I was gonna say something smart, but I forgot

[pv=nrt]

lotsa asian chicks do porn, that's a step to whiteness.

[Liquid Blue]

I agree with some of what you said, and disagree with the other parts.

You're proved my point actually. The fact is, black actors CAN play 'white roles' because being black is finally starting to be pretty normal in America, normal enough that they are interchangable. Normal enough so that black people are sexually desirable enough so that they can play roles previously reserved for white people because the general public actually want to acknowledge them in these roles. Meanwhile being 'asian' still means kung-fu guy or obligatory geek/scientist type guy in movies.

My point was that in order for the black female actresses to play roles that can be interchangeable with white actresses, they have to adopt or already have physical traits with white women (light skin, straight hair in Beyonce's case, etc). Black guys for the most part get roles that involve violence or revenge, or some other stereotype of the black male like you had said. To truly say they are interchangeable, show them in a romantic comedy that has a white female lead, or as a heroic vailiant leader instead of a leader consumed with revenge or bloodlust.

The point is, being black in America can mean a lot of things... anything from being Halle Berry to being 50 cent. I urge you to find lots of black women who wouldn't find Denzel attractive and then find lots of white women who woudln't think the same. Perhaps my examples aren't wide ranging enough. Do you ever see an asian Snoop Dog going around getting chicks to go naked for them? Do you ever see asian music stars out there like 50 cent, Kayne West and JayZ? Because they can mean a lot of things, black people are seen as much more 'cool' and sexually desirable than asians in the media and in the general western population.

Sure plenty of black women find Denzel attractive, but really how many other famous black actors are his age that aren't deemed attractive by the black female population? Not only do they have clear complexions and white teeth, but they are also seen as popular and sucessful, which adds to the attraction factor. And I don't think there will be as many women as you suggest that will openly say Denzel is attractive. Well, let me rephrase, I doubt they would say he is attractive than any other white actor. They might say he's " alright, ok or whatever, but I don't think they'll admit him to being as hot as Brad Pitt, George Clooney or whoever is in his age range. Snoop Dogg, 50 cent, JazyZ and all the others have the element of danger and wealth associated with them, which is why they get chicks to do they things they do. Danger because most white families still frown on interracial relationships and of their past exploits, and as you can see their pockets are stuffed with money. Those 2 things, coupled with being seen on tv are the reason they are thought of as "cool" and "sexually desireable ".

Asians don't seem to have anything at all beyond kung-fu skills and an uncanny ability to 'study non-stop' as people in this thread keep describing us as. For some reason we can't just be 'normal people'. Try and find women (any women) who actually think Jet Li with his pockmarked face, or Jackie Chan as actually attractive and you won't. Sure they can kick some ass, but seen as sexy? I hardly think so.

I agree with you on this, and I think it's the stereotypes like the ones you mentioned which are hurting asian males in terms of landing multi-racial "poon-tang". Physical features aren't the only thing that attract women (Donald Trump, Hugh Hefner, Jay-Z, etc), money and the association with dnager work also. Kung-Fu and action movies are seen as a gimmick moreso these days than actual danger, and most asians I see in the public eye don't care that much about money, so they simply have to exude manliness through other efforts. That's the main thing about most actors that are seen as sexy these days- which qualities of a man do they represent the most. Money, Strength, alot goes back to basic instinct and how much the man can provide for/defend his family.

Actually the thing is, I actually wonder if black women feel the same way as asian men do. I seem to personally see much more black men with white women then the other way around, but perhaps I'm just not noticing enough.

Yea I agreed with you on this/mentioned it in my earlier post.

As for my comment on asians abandoning their heritage, it's a fact that most asians in North America are first or second generation immigrants. Blacks have been here for centuries. There's not much for them to abandon, because they ARE people from here. It's not like they brought hip hop from the old country, they made it here, and last I noticed, a lot of non-black people love much of the culture that blacks have pioneered in North America too. Meanwhile asians just got here, and for a lot of us, it's not as simple as just fitting in perfectly, but it takes a bit of active effort to be sufficiently 'white' enough to be desirable. If we're just ourselves, we're seen as overly geeky and scrawny, while black guys are seen as great dancers with huge dicks and muscular bodies.

lol yea.

[Epinephrine]

You sound so angry Epi. I was gonna say something smart, but I forgot

Nah the thread was getting off to a bit of a tangent, so maybe the opinions were getting more and more extreme. I was still trying to answer the original question which was why do asian guys frown on white guys dating asian chicks and I hope I helped to show how things are from OUR perspective. One thing though, for asian guys who have no interest in non-asian girls, I think they really don't care if asian girls go out with white guys, becuase those girls are too 'white' to begin with anyway. Actually in a way, the asian girls that white guys find attractive usually have different qualities from what asian guys usually look for in girls.

[Blanke]

Meanwhile being 'asian' still means kung-fu guy or obligatory geek/scientist type guy in movies...Asians don't seem to have anything at all beyond kung-fu skills and an uncanny ability to 'study non-stop' as people in this thread keep describing us as. For some reason we can't just be 'normal people'. Try and find women (any women) who actually think Jet Li with his pockmarked face, or Jackie Chan as actually attractive and you won't. Sure they can kick some ass, but seen as sexy? I hardly think so.

Do you know why we haven't had a breakthrough in the movie industry and thus the media? We haven't had the breakthrough Asian actor who exemplifies much of the first generation Asians in the United States. Jackie Chan and Jet Li, don't get me wrong, they're great martial artists and do well with what they have, but they are over the age limit to have a great influence on the younger generation. As soon as there's a gorgeous asian guy acting his way up Hollywood, then Asians will start to be looked at in a new perspective.

Honestly, I see lots of ricers and the stereotypical asians. If we had more who were athletic, if you will, then people would look at them differently. I'm not trying to brag or anything, but I'm in good shape and get lots of attention from both girls and guys. (i'm asian)

[Epinephrine]

Do you know why we haven't had a breakthrough in the movie industry and thus the media? We haven't had the breakthrough Asian actor who exemplifies much of the first generation Asians in the United States. Jackie Chan and Jet Li, don't get me wrong, they're great martial artists and do well with what they have, but they are over the age limit to have a great influence on the younger generation. As soon as there's a gorgeous asian guy acting his way up Hollywood, then Asians will start to be looked at in a new perspective.

Honestly, I see lots of ricers and the stereotypical asians. If we had more who were athletic, if you will, then people would look at them differently. I'm not trying to brag or anything, but I'm in good shape and get lots of attention from both girls and guys. (i'm asian)

That's the thing... being attractive in asia really has nothing to do with being athletic... that's a western conception of beauty. Look at all the famous people in Asia, none of them are athletic... it just doesn't really matter.

So if you're saying that to be noticed, asians need to be athletic, then I'll tell you that you can't really be that asian anymore if you want to really be accepted which kind of sucks. (meanwhile asian girls don't really have to do anything they're not already doing and plenty of white guys like em:P)

Just curious... how tall are you? You're not 5'6 are you? (average height for most Chinese/Japanese)

[Blanke]

That's the thing... being attractive in asia really has nothing to do with being athletic... that's a western conception of beauty. Look at all the famous people in Asia, none of them are athletic... it just doesn't really matter.

So if you're saying that to be noticed, asians need to be athletic, then I'll tell you that you can't really be that asian anymore if you want to really be accepted which kind of sucks. (meanwhile asian girls don't really have to do anything they're not already doing and plenty of white guys like em:P)

Just curious... how tall are you? You're not 5'6 are you? (average height for most Chinese/Japanese)

I'm 5'10", and about 175 lbs (not completely fat, although i was fat at one point). My younger brother, two years my junior, is already taller than me, although he is lanky. The only reason that I'm larger than him (muscle-wise) is that I work out regularly, while he spends all of his time on the computer and gaming. I'm not saying he's the stereotypical asian, because I have had my share of gaming and anime.

I don't believe that being physically fit is necessarily a Western conception of beauty, although it may be more emphasized than other cultures. Remember Darwin's little phrase, "survival of the fittest" (actually, i think someone else coined that term, but i don't remember who)? Those who mate in life are always ones who are most similar physically.

Ostriches mate for life. The alpha male and female always build a big nest, and let other not-so-dominant couples add their eggs to it. Although the alpha male and female do take care of all the eggs, they still put more special attention towards their own.

Likewise, courting the female in the animal kingdom is always a ritual mostly dependent on the male's ability to survive. Okay, not really, but females look for the male who could help create the best possible offspring.

I'm not saying that Asians need to be athletic, although being athletic wouldn't be detrimental and it wouldn't mean that you're not asian anymore, but no one can deny that physical attributes play a big role in seeing someone for the first time. "Love at first sight" and "make a good, first impression" hint towards the role the body plays in society. Also, would being an athletic asian mean that you're not really asian anymore? Maybe you just haven't seen it yet. I'm sure you're aware how many immigrants come for a new life and that many of them are suffering from malnutrition. From my experience, all the immigrant parents who have reared first generation asian americans say that the kids here are much larger and much healthier.

Like you said, asians haven't been here forever, and we surely haven't been eating well on a grand scale like the majority of americans have who have lived in the U.S. for the past century.

[RATTY...]

I'm a bit over 5'9, but I use to say 6'0

[Epinephrine]

I'm 5'10", and about 175 lbs (not completely fat, although i was fat at one point). My younger brother, two years my junior, is already taller than me, although he is lanky. The only reason that I'm larger than him (muscle-wise) is that I work out regularly, while he spends all of his time on the computer and gaming. I'm not saying he's the stereotypical asian, because I have had my share of gaming and anime.

I don't believe that being physically fit is necessarily a Western conception of beauty, although it may be more emphasized than other cultures. Remember Darwin's little phrase, "survival of the fittest" (actually, i think someone else coined that term, but i don't remember who)? Those who mate in life are always ones who are most similar physically.

Ostriches mate for life. The alpha male and female always build a big nest, and let other not-so-dominant couples add their eggs to it. Although the alpha male and female do take care of all the eggs, they still put more special attention towards their own.

Likewise, courting the female in the animal kingdom is always a ritual mostly dependent on the male's ability to survive. Okay, not really, but females look for the male who could help create the best possible offspring.

I'm not saying that Asians need to be athletic, although being athletic wouldn't be detrimental and it wouldn't mean that you're not asian anymore, but no one can deny that physical attributes play a big role in seeing someone for the first time. "Love at first sight" and "make a good, first impression" hint towards the role the body plays in society. Also, would being an athletic asian mean that you're not really asian anymore? Maybe you just haven't seen it yet. I'm sure you're aware how many immigrants come for a new life and that many of them are suffering from malnutrition. From my experience, all the immigrant parents who have reared first generation asian americans say that the kids here are much larger and much healthier.

Like you said, asians haven't been here forever, and we surely haven't been eating well on a grand scale like the majority of americans have who have lived in the U.S. for the past century.

Arg please don't comment on evolutionary biology if you don't really know how it works. Fitness isn't defined by how 'athletically fit' you are. It's a measure of fecundity, basically how many kids you have is how 'fit' you are. If fat people had more kids than thin people, then evoluntionarily, being fat would have a higher fecundity, and thus in evolution those people would be more 'fit'.


As for asians being athletic. Atheletic asians look different from atheletic white people. White people who never work out look different from asians who never work out. White people who DO work out, look different as well. Besides, why should asians have to work out just to get white girls when white guys who don't do much working out at all get white girls AND asian girls much easier?

Obviously if you're tall, very good looking and very atheletic girls will like you. It's not about that. It's about the average asian not fitting what the physical description of what the average white girl is looking for. It's about the average asian girl fitting the physical description of what many white guys would look for. And then it's about the added detremental effects of stereotypes and culture which work against asians living in North America.

And no, I really don't think most asians really do care about having the perfectly chissled and 'athletic' body. It's a western conception of beauty which began with the Greeks and those Greek statues, it doesn't exist at all in the history and culture of Southeast Asia.

[Liquid Blue]

Sounds like a negative outlook on the asian man's place in North America. Life isn't fair, skinny asian geeks can't get hot white girls (not that I see skinny white geeks getting hot white girls either), tough luck. I don't think being fit is abaonding your culture or way of life, sticking to one way of life and eating habit is partly how stereotypes come about in the first place. In order to break the bad stigma and stereotypes associated with asian males, changes must occur. You don't have to be skinny and well-mannered/quiet to stay strong in your cultural identity, it's ok to work out just like it's ok to not only do Kung-Fu in movies. I don't see how you can want change to occur but frown on asian guys working out. Some skinny teenagers complain about their acne, small frames or some other thing that might prevent them from getting girls- some teenagers decide to do something about it. Just like somene quoted before, you just have to flow with it, work on any negative faults you might have. Not just to get girls but to improve yourself as a whole. If you don't think working out will be an improvement to you, fine. I just disagree that working out is a deviation from your culture and background.

[Arikel]

Obviously if you're tall, very good looking and very atheletic girls will like you. It's not about that. It's about the average asian not fitting what the physical description of what the average white girl is looking for. It's about the average asian girl fitting the physical description of what many white guys would look for. And then it's about the added detremental effects of stereotypes and culture which work against asians living in North America.

I think that that summarizes almost everything... almost... except for the fact that it only deals with the physical side of the issue. I think you can say something similar about the intelectual part... :kamikaze: but as always you can't make sweeping generalizations about something like this.

[Facetious]

(not that I see skinny white geeks getting hot white girls either)

thats a pretty decent point. ive found that while looks are important when it comes to getting sorority girls, i have friends with many different looks and body-types that have gotten very attractive girlfriends. a lot of girls seem to look for confidence and sense of humor over a guy that works out all the time thats a total douchebag. i find it hard to believe that most girls would choose a boring, nerdy white guy who worked out a lot over a skinny asian guy who found a style that worked for him, and was outgoing, confident, and funny. could it be that its not the physical attributes thats keeping asians from dating white girls, but rather the societal pressure to be quiet, remain in the background, and study?