Wtf is up with Intelligent Design?

[Simple Mistake]

Undoubtedly you would sit through a lecture on predictions of nostradomus. Perhaps even consider psychic phenomena such as ghosts, telekinesis and such things. Even the CIA has proven the abilities of one ex-cop who apparently saw into a hanger inside Russia. What other creature on this earth could possibly have so much knowledge, so much insight on the workings of the world. None, so where did evolution go wrong?

They are all theories, ID is no different then the big bang. Hey what can I say, Jesus said it best.

Every plant not planted by my heavenly Father will be rooted up, so ignore them. They are blind guides leading the blind, and if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch. -Matthew vs. 15: 13-14

How does all this tie into the paranormal you say? Easy, there is a spiritual war that has been in effect since God has created man. Who can deny the existence of evil? As much as we are loved by God, we are also hated and despised by satan. Of course satan loved the old days when we lived under God's law. All men were guilty under the law, even the greatest prophets, so we were separated from God. Jesus covers our sins by his own blood, only by his grace are we saved. God also gifted us with the Holy Spirit.

He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world at large cannot receive him, because it isn't looking for him and doesn't recognize him. But you do, because he lives with you now and later will be in you. - He will tell you about the future. He will bring me glory by revealing to you whatever he receives from me. John vs. 14: 15, John vs. 16: 14-15

Now do I think nostradomus is psychic? Certainly not, his writings are purely possible events that could take place. He made probable predictions with multiple outcomes. Basically he covered all his options and wrote very obscure things. Of course not all visions are from God, I'm sure he was motivated to write what he did. It'd be like going to Vegas and putting a chip down on all the numbers... of course your going to be right when the ball stops.

So what does all this have to do with Intelligent Design?

Yes ID is backed by most Christian believers who would love schools to be unbiased against possibilities. I will teach my children but I don't believe in forcing it on yours. I do feel it is unfortunate; your children are as deserving as mine.

Separation of church and state was meant to protect our government from powers such as the old British Catholic church. This had great influence over the people and rejected any other form of religion other then what was catholic.

So our great and wonderful forefathers gave us guaranteed protection from being ruled by the church. They would be very ashamed to see how far those words have been carried. It was the intent that we should be looking at, not the definition.

Our great nation is being re-wrote not by our president, but by Supreme Court justices who rule on precedence. Precedence on precedence, Bush is at least putting the power of our supreme courts back into good hands that aren't so willing to topple the constitution. Judges that judge on the intent of our fore fathers, rather then what other judges have determined to be right or wrong.

In God we trust. That is what makes our country so great. We are a Nation founded on Christianity. How much does our father in heaven love us? Look at all the gifts he has given us. Think about it, we are the envy of every nation(except Canada, but the cold might affect their thinking).

All I'm saying is I'm afraid our Government which was founded and created by God fearing, Jesus loving bible toting people (which most of you seem to hate for no reason) is in danger of losing our relationship with God.

Oh well, I could go on forever, and I'm sure the nasty replies of scientism will come pouring in shortly.

Just remember, I didn't start this thread, just explaining what you asked for. So you can hate me now.

Anyone who rebukes a mocker will get a smart retort. Anyone who rebukes the wicked will get hurt. So don't bother rebuking mockers; they will only hate you. But the wise, when rebuked, will love you all the more. Teach the wise, and they will be wiser. Teach the righteous, and they will learn more. Proverbs vs. 9: 7-9

I'm writing this in hopes that those who are in-between can see both sides of this argument. My hope is that someone will receive this in good faith, and I apologize for "forcing" my Christian values on you unbelievers who so value your Christian free forum. Please discuss another topic where your ignorance is better placed.

Sincerely,
SM



Sorry if I offended anyone!

[Pressure Drop]

Undoubtedly you would sit through a lecture on predictions of nostradomus. Perhaps even consider psychic phenomena such as ghosts, telekinesis and such things. Even the CIA has proven the abilities of one ex-cop who apparently saw into a hanger inside Russia. What other creature on this earth could possibly have so much knowledge, so much insight on the workings of the world. None, so where did evolution go wrong?

ehm no i wouldn't sit through a lecture on predictions of nostradomus
don't believe in ghosts, telekinesis and such things
don't believe you with your CIA thing
evolution gone wrong?? lost me.

Separation of church and state was meant to protect our government from powers such as the old British Catholic church. This had great influence over the people and rejected any other form of religion other then what was catholic.

what ???
i think your getting confused with the spanish inquisition
Britain turned Protestant and installed its monarchy at the top of the church in like 1533 when the catholic chruch refused to allow king henry to divorce.

i think your talking nonsense. Wasn't the constitution ment to be devoid of religion so each man was equal no matter what religion they were?

Something you amended when it was changed to say "under god" ... -_-

[Sarien]

You sure showed me, Anime Avatar Guy.

Where to begin, where to begin.

Separation of church and state was meant to protect our government from powers such as the old British Catholic church. This had great influence over the people and rejected any other form of religion other then what was catholic.

Which was wrong, so they thought it best to seperate church and state, so that no citizen of this republic despite their religion would be oppressed in this great land of the free. This country was made by the downtrodden, for the downtrodden so they wouldn't have to be anymore. That's why France loved us and like gave us a statue and everything.

So our great and wonderful forefathers gave us guaranteed protection from being ruled by the church. They would be very ashamed to see how far those words have been carried. It was the intent that we should be looking at, not the definition.

You're right, they'd be really ashamed of any president that pushed their faith as reasoning behind their executive decisions. For Reference: Read Thomas Paine.

Our great nation is being re-wrote not by our president, but by Supreme Court justices who rule on precedence. Precedence on precedence, Bush is at least putting the power of our supreme courts back into good hands that aren't so willing to topple the constitution. Judges that judge on the intent of our fore fathers, rather then what other judges have determined to be right or wrong.

Wow, at least your name fits. Your simple mistake is in not understanding exactly how our government works, let alone how it is supposed to work. Know how I can tell that? Because you're repeating the party line that judges are somehow "rewriting" the laws of this country. That in and of itself is an entire discussion. Let me save you some time. We have three branches of government. Executive, Legislative, and Judicial. The president is in the Executive branch. He's a big office manager and publicity guy to the world. He's also the commander of the army. He however doesn't get to really "write" what this country is.. just influence it as best he can. Push for some things and try to block others. The Legislative Branch is the one that does the writing you see. Congress, they're the one that come up with the laws and amendments and vote on them based on what their constituents are supposed to want. Yay.
Judicial.. here's your judges. The Judicial branch personnel are supposed to take the laws that Congress makes and get this, interpret them, and enforce their meaning. So what rewriting can they do? None! They don't get to change any laws, simply take what they mean and enforce it. They are in fact bound by each and every letter of every word of every law they are sworn by oath to uphold. Congratulations, you've bought into a bullshit sandwich. How's it taste?

In God we trust. That is what makes our country so great. We are a Nation founded on Christianity. How much does our father in heaven love us? Look at all the gifts he has given us. Think about it, we are the envy of every nation(except Canada, but the cold might affect their thinking).
All I'm saying is I'm afraid our Government which was founded and created by God fearing, Jesus loving bible toting people (which most of you seem to hate for no reason) is in danger of losing our relationship with God.

You won't believe me, because it just shakes your little world, but we weren't a nation founded on Christianity. We were a nation founded on being tired of men not being considered equal.

"The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation." Know who signed that into law? One of the founding fathers you're blathering about. John Adams, in the Treaty of Tripoli. Know who else had concerns about what or who god is or isn't? Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine. There's two more of our founding fathers right there.

I don't really give a fuck if you like Jesus, love Jesus, or suck Jesus off once in a while behind the toolshed. What I do care about is the notion that grows almost like a brain tumor that the United States has any manner of official religion and/or governmental relationship with your deity. It doesn't. Would your god really associate with the pricks in the Federal Government? If he would, then he's a shithead just like the rest of them. Worry all you want about your fabled relationship with the Jesus, but in the meantime there are real actual fucking people made of real actual flesh and blood, living in the real actual country that we live in, that are citizens the same as you. These real actual live citizens deserve the same respect and placement in their government you do, and should not be excluded or run roughshod over by lunatics claiming that God will wrath us because our nation's laws don't offer him up a handjob once in a while.

Without an official religion, everybody gets to play nice and be happy together.
With any official religion, everybody else gets shit on.

Not to mention, can you name a single area of your life that can be considered having been made BETTER by government's involvement? Do you really want government mandates where it's your immortal soul in the balance? Do you really trust them that far?

There is nothing worse on earth than fuckers that just repeat this self serving Jesus will hate us for not loving him on our money or in class bullshit ad nauseum. It's not the laws and government's close relationship with god you doubt, it's your own. If you believed in your own faith and connection with the Jesus, then you wouldn't need external validation and legislation to prove you're doing the right thing.

[Kolar]

Undoubtedly you would sit through a lecture on predictions of nostradomus. Perhaps even consider psychic phenomena such as ghosts, telekinesis and such things. Even the CIA has proven the abilities of one ex-cop who apparently saw into a hanger inside Russia. What other creature on this earth could possibly have so much knowledge, so much insight on the workings of the world. None, so where did evolution go wrong?

They are all theories, ID is no different then the big bang. Hey what can I say, Jesus said it best.

You would never learn or hear about PSI abilities in a class room because there simply is no course or scienctific material on it. You may read about Nostradomus making prediction but not that any of them came true or were real, and only from a history class.

The CIA prove that all PSI abilties are fake and in 1992 hired an outside firm to look over the organizations they were funding since the 60s on this and found it to be 100% complete bullshit. 20 million+ was wasted on it. No further studies by the Govn. have been funded since but many have been trying to coin new terms.

ID is not a scientific theroy because:
1: It does not superseed any other theories in this feild.
2: There is no scientific or mathermatical material to analyze and study the idea or concept of a "higher power" thus the theroy is untestable, it is invalid.

Yes ID is backed by most Christian believers who would love schools to be unbiased against possibilities. I will teach my children but I don't believe in forcing it on yours. I do feel it is unfortunate; your children are as deserving as mine.

Science and the underlying feilds deal with the possabilities and facts of this world. The very nature of science is to be unbiased and objective so when you hear people talking like this you baffle far too many. Teaching your child to not be open minded as science is in accepting new theroies and ideas is your choice but you're limiting them and sheltering them from knowledge and enlightenment.

Our great nation is being re-wrote not by our president, but by Supreme Court justices who rule on precedence. Precedence on precedence, Bush is at least putting the power of our supreme courts back into good hands that aren't so willing to topple the constitution. Judges that judge on the intent of our fore fathers, rather then what other judges have determined to be right or wrong.

Your president has backed every single attempt to push more money and power into the church since he took office. Ruling on precededent while being morally objective allows for people to be judged fairly. He is putting the courts into the hands of people who are on the outside of main stream conseravativism and completely off the map on social issues, so before you want to post bullshit like this get to know these ultra neo-cons. The spirt and general inturpratation of the US constitution is that neither state nor the church should be mixed together ever, that is how they would rule on anything pretaining to it but not on every single case.

In God we trust. That is what makes our country so great. We are a Nation founded on Christianity. How much does our father in heaven love us? Look at all the gifts he has given us. Think about it, we are the envy of every nation(except Canada, but the cold might affect their thinking).

All I'm saying is I'm afraid our Government which was founded and created by God fearing, Jesus loving bible toting people (which most of you seem to hate for no reason) is in danger of losing our relationship with God.

I think you as a good little christian should be a little more concerned and not so egotistical to think that a good number of people actually like you as a nation and as a people. Be more affraid of those who find themselves righteous in everything they do then those who question every move they make.
No one in history said that nor did the bible but you evangelical types and Americans in general like catchy slogans, less thinking... :turned:

[syzygy]

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[Saturn V]

but ID only offers another view on origin

I don't get why evolution is attacked, though. Evolution is a very well tested theory with minor problems.

Also, evolution doesn't explain the origin of life. Evolution explains how traits are passed on and bring forth new species.

Origin of life theories can be found here, all which make more sense than ID.

And to quote Richard Dawkins, "If complex organisms demand an explanation, so does a complex designer. And it's no solution to raise the theologian's plea that God (or the Intelligent Designer) is simply immune to the normal demands of scientific explanation. To do so would be to shoot yourself in the foot."

[Saturn V]

In God we trust. That is what makes our country so great.

Should be, "E Pluribus Unum. That is what makes our country so great."

[Sarien]

read the Bible before you start making your own rules on our faith.

Aww, pooky, did I hit a bit close to the mark?

What, do you think I mind if you love Jesus or something? Here's a hint: I don't care who you love, Jesus or otherwise. What I don't want is your Jesus in my government. Because then my government starts using my money for Jesus related things. No thanks.

Or maybe you're saying that it is your own rules for your faith that you have to infiltrate, and subvert government so that the government of the nation of the whole, reflects the religious association of some?

I don't think that's what you mean, but it's what you're saying. I think that you just don't like your faith being questioned. You get your hackles all up and the only defense you have is to tell me to "read the bible". Yeah, like reading the fucking bible will make me change my mind about anything. Might as well read Jurassic Park. Suddenly I'll just sit up and go "This Jesus cat is awesome, if he perhaps existed! And if he was perhaps the son of god as primitive people dead for milennia seem to claim!"

Give me a little more credit than that. My religious epiphanies came and went a long time ago. I believe what I believe, and ain't it grand how I don't parade it to justify what I believe and try to tell you that believing the same will make you better. I'm just telling you that you're wrong-headed and you need to stop your bullshit. Difference between you and me is, what I believe is my own, and I don't want my government or other people to swallow it like some half assed faith bukkake.

"Watch out, you've got some of my faith in your eye"

[syzygy]

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[Sarien]

the Bible says "your" government exists thanks to "my" God.

Neat. The history books say my government exists thanks to the blood and determination of men who wanted to be free. Americans and their allies alike.

neither do i, but you would rather generalize Christians by what you think we do--not to mention assuming we all agree with each other.

I'm not generalizing christians. I was calling the other dude on his bullshit, and you decided to take a bullet for him.

i never said i wanted religion and government to be mixed. i don't believe religion should be forced upon anyone. the Christians i know only preach to the many so that the few can hear. ignore it if you want, i don't care; we only care about those who want to know.

Then say it along with me. The last place religion, any religion needs to be is officially sponsored by a government that wants to be known as "free".

[syzygy]

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[froedrick]

About the 'preaching' to other people thing. Just a few months ago two mormons (one from salt lake, one from alberta) stopped by my house and asked if I could spare a few minutes. I'm not mean so I said "sure why not, but I don't believe in any religions nor do I particularly believe in god, so I'd prefer if you don't talk to me about that". They said oh no we won't try to change your mind or your views, HOWEVER... and they went into a 20 minute spew on how they knew god existed and wished that I would meet them again at their church and they could help me to discover him.

I don't know about you, but that seems like a pretty slick way of trying to change my views. This kind of thing has happened to me before from a few Pentecostals and the like. I'm starting to get to the point where I won't even entertain the idea of a conversation for fear of getting into a silly argument about the existance of god.

[syzygy]

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[froedrick]

LB's artwork

[DoTheFandango]

HAY U GUYZ. WANNA BE LIKE, SHUTUPZ?

Seriously. This arguement is so played out. The bible thumpers will say that the big man says that he made them and no one else, and the scholars say that we were created by other means. But never the less we both continue. Doesn't anyone think that the can COEXIST? That God created the original being and that we evolved from that?

Or is that wrong?