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**Pressure Drop** · 12-11-2005, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by froedrick

About the 'preaching' to other people thing. Just a few months ago two mormons (one from salt lake, one from alberta) stopped by my house and asked if I could spare a few minutes. I'm not mean so I said "sure why not, but I don't believe in any religions nor do I particularly believe in god, so I'd prefer if you don't talk to me about that". They said oh no we won't try to change your mind or your views, HOWEVER... and they went into a 20 minute spew on how they knew god existed and wished that I would meet them again at their church and they could help me to discover him.

I don't know about you, but that seems like a pretty slick way of trying to change my views. This kind of thing has happened to me before from a few Pentecostals and the like. I'm starting to get to the point where I won't even entertain the idea of a conversation for fear of getting into a silly argument about the existance of god.

I got tricked like that once. it was a world cup match i was watching in 1998 and these 2 old ppl turned up and said "oh i see your watching the football we won't be long can you spare a few minutes" Being brought up to respect my elders i said Okay, even though i wanted to watch the match. Then after about 5 mins i was really regretting it becuase they were talking about some church and jesus and about some personal experience and whenever they asked me something it was just "no i don't believe in that or i've no interest in going to your church" and they took another 10 minutes before giving up and leaving after making me miss 15 minutes of the football :/

It really pissed me off becuase they knew they were interrupting me, i showed no desire to engage them in conversatoin about jesus but was being polite so i was kept there for 15 minutes while i missed the match. Afterwards i decided that i was just going to be ignorant to anyone trying to convert me from now on as they take advantage of common courtesy.

I now come across as a bastard to those religious ppl with clipboards or that come around the door but i'm not wasting my time listening to drivel. They aren't intrested in my views and i'm not interested in theres so there is no point talking or more likely being talked too.

**Simple Mistake** · 12-11-2005, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by Sarien

Wow, at least your name fits. Your simple mistake is in not understanding exactly how our government works, let alone how it is supposed to work. Know how I can tell that? Because you're repeating the party line that judges are somehow "rewriting" the laws of this country. That in and of itself is an entire discussion. Let me save you some time. We have three branches of government. Executive, Legislative, and Judicial. The president is in the Executive branch. He's a big office manager and publicity guy to the world. He's also the commander of the army. He however doesn't get to really "write" what this country is.. just influence it as best he can. Push for some things and try to block others. The Legislative Branch is the one that does the writing you see. Congress, they're the one that come up with the laws and amendments and vote on them based on what their constituents are supposed to want. Yay.
Judicial.. here's your judges. The Judicial branch personnel are supposed to take the laws that Congress makes and get this, interpret them, and enforce their meaning. So what rewriting can they do? None! They don't get to change any laws, simply take what they mean and enforce it. They are in fact bound by each and every letter of every word of every law they are sworn by oath to uphold. Congratulations, you've bought into a bullshit sandwich. How's it taste?

You won't believe me, because it just shakes your little world, but we weren't a nation founded on Christianity. We were a nation founded on being tired of men not being considered equal.

"The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation." Know who signed that into law? One of the founding fathers you're blathering about. John Adams, in the Treaty of Tripoli. Know who else had concerns about what or who god is or isn't? Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine. There's two more of our founding fathers right there.

I don't really give a fuck if you like Jesus, love Jesus, or suck Jesus off once in a while behind the toolshed. What I do care about is the notion that grows almost like a brain tumor that the United States has any manner of official religion and/or governmental relationship with your deity. It doesn't. Would your god really associate with the pricks in the Federal Government? If he would, then he's a shithead just like the rest of them. Worry all you want about your fabled relationship with the Jesus, but in the meantime there are real actual fucking people made of real actual flesh and blood, living in the real actual country that we live in, that are citizens the same as you. These real actual live citizens deserve the same respect and placement in their government you do, and should not be excluded or run roughshod over by lunatics claiming that God will wrath us because our nation's laws don't offer him up a handjob once in a while.

Without an official religion, everybody gets to play nice and be happy together.
With any official religion, everybody else gets shit on.

Not to mention, can you name a single area of your life that can be considered having been made BETTER by government's involvement? Do you really want government mandates where it's your immortal soul in the balance? Do you really trust them that far?

There is nothing worse on earth than fuckers that just repeat this self serving Jesus will hate us for not loving him on our money or in class bullshit ad nauseum. It's not the laws and government's close relationship with god you doubt, it's your own. If you believed in your own faith and connection with the Jesus, then you wouldn't need external validation and legislation to prove you're doing the right thing.

Wow exactly what I expected. Pardon me if I didn't dwelve into political ramblings of exactly what precedence is. No, I missed the republican party debates on TV while I was in the middle east standing guard in 2004. My vote wasn't even counted. You know exactly how precedence works but you refuse to explain it? Well I refuse to argue this with you, because of your mixed facts and your hatred of God.

You win.

Thank you for that delightful response and intelligently worded and well thought out argument.

Good day.

Oh and I got this avatar off a google for "avatar" I liked it because of the broom sweeping. So she's cleaing my avatar box until someone gives me a cool one.

Alot of people have been turned off from God by people, but ultimately by their own choice.

**syzygy** · 12-11-2005, 02:37 PM

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**Vykromond** · 12-11-2005, 04:28 PM

RE: Sarien

The problem with having states' rights be supreme is that at some point most of the residents are going to leave the state, and then their local our-biology-class-teaches-Jesus policies are going to seem mighty antiquarian. Since this is largely a debate about educational policies in public schools, I would say that it most definitely falls under the purview of federal law.

**Sarien** · 12-11-2005, 05:13 PM