What's happened?

[Krusnik]

I don't think technology has changed us a lot. Sure when I was a kid, Cops and I were outside playing hockey or building snow forts. Today kids are inside on their computers or watching TV. I wouldn't give up those memories for anything and I feel bad knowing that kids won't have them, all they'll have is some stupid game they'll get bored of or addicted to.

I partly dissagree with this, not all kids that watch tv, and play games are getting deprived of good memories with friends. Me, and my buds still have good times, we often hang-out, and do alot of activities. Despite having friends on msn, and mmo's with online gamin Parent's are partly to blame for this. They allow their kids to be on these games, and use the tv all day without spending any time outside.

[Pressure Drop]

i still want to see this utopia that was the world before the internet.

There has always been people that have been bitter violent and lonely, making rash generalizations about how technology is either causing this or spreading it seems purposeless.

people were saying the same things about the printing press, cinema but in all honesty stories of old weren't exactly all happy and many were tradgedys.

I don't believe technology is cuaseing ppl to be cynical, there has always been cynical ppl and there always will be too.

it is easy to question the moral degradation of society and how things are now so much worse than they used to be. But that has all been said before.

By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, journalism keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.

You could still agrue that the often biased newspapers of today meerly reflect the ignorance of the community as a whole and yet that was written over 100 years ago.

[Liquid Blue]

It's not just causing people to be cynical, I think the internet and the media in general has lead us to disconnect from one another on a personal, human to human interactive level. Like others were saying above, 3 decades ago you didn't have the internet as an entertainment venue, or as an avenue of escape from your life All you could do was hang out with your neighbors, play some board games maybe- hell even up to the 80's, the closest you could get to closing yourself off was holing up in your room with your atari or whatever and jamming to some music. Families ate together, there were less cars all over which meant less reasons for your family members to be out of the house doing who knows what.

The whole stigma about bad news = ratings, or that people like and are only interested in violence or danger on the news, has warped the whole career, the entire outlet of information. Maybe it was always lke that, maybe news stories even in papers back before tv came out were full of horror and pain- but with news stations being able to cover more ground, cover more stories from around the world, I think it's overwhelemed us on some subconcious level, or at least it's starting to. People are afraid of eachother almost instinctively now, all the stories of rapists, robberies, pyro's, all the war, the death. You're right, humans have been doing this for thousands of years- but have we ever had such a clear picture of it, such an overwhelmingly negative picture painted for us-daily, before?

I have to do some animating in a bit, but for the moment I just want to say that I think a lack of parenting coupled with negative news from the media and the internet as a source of escape, have played a big part in what I believe to be a breakdown in our society, be it graudal or rapid.

[Pressure Drop]

Society evolves, it changes that is what happens. It has always done so and will always do so untill Humanity becomes extinct. That much is obvious but when i read that our society is "breaking down" it makes me question that. That term is used far to much when in fact you mean society is moving away from what you'd like it too be.

This moving is not always a bad thing, we now live in a society that is much more tolerant and there are alot more freedoms and equality in sex, race and religion. Is it perfect? no course there is still a big element of these things about, but it wasn't so long ago that Women couldn't vote and blacks weren't allowed into restaruants with white ppl at all.

You could view the internet as a filthy thing breaking down society through no one communitcating in person and as a vassel for illiegal kiddy porn
Or you could hail it as a revolution in communication allowing me to try and express my views to someone such as yourself where i'd never have met you to interchange views, so we are both broadening our horizons and the scientific community can publish research papers allowing instant access to others in that field.

You got to look at things a bit more subjectively and realise that modern media and technology are just a tool used by humans, this will lead to some trying to exploit it, others trying to abuse it and others trying to use it to better human kind. As i said it was the same for the printing press, society is still around

[Ashlee]

I have to do some animating in a bit, but for the moment I just want to say that I think a lack of parenting coupled with negative news from the media and the internet as a source of escape, have played a big part in what I believe to be a breakdown in our society, be it graudal or rapid.

Well, when did that start, the lack of parenting?

[DoCk>]

All technology does is speed up the exchange of information. Disasters and horrors have been occuring since the beginning of time - things aren't different at all. You just see them faster.

You should instead blame mass media, especially the major networks, for overhyping stories of strife, disaster, and misery. Why? Because people are people and humans like staring at accidents as they drive down the road. Morbid curiosity drives network popularity.

The savior of our times is the Internet. The whole point to the internet is you see what you want to see. You can find whatever you're looking for out on the Internet. Your view of the world is your own and you can make of it what you wish. People will be people - and with the Internet you can quickly find people who are more like you than different.

When you look on the internet, what do you see? Think about it for a while and you'll find a reflection of yourself and your own views.

Anyhow, society has been breaking down since the beginning of time. Why hasn't it broken down yet? It's my personal feeling that our modern age is the most enlightened ever. Be happy you weren't born in the middle ages.

[Subjugation]

Holy shit, that was a pretty fucking good post. I hadn't really thought of the internet in those terms before.

[Liquid Blue]

Awesome, I love seeing this topic get so many varied and insightful answers. It's always good to see a topic that actually makes you think about and consider your opinion/stance on something.

Society evolves, it changes that is what happens. It has always done so and will always do so untill Humanity becomes extinct. That much is obvious but when i read that our society is "breaking down" it makes me question that. That term is used far to much when in fact you mean society is moving away from what you'd like it too be.

I agree that society has always evolved but when I said breaking down, I was implying that the amount of negative information passed through the media is too much, there is too much of a focus on the horrible aspects of like, which has emotionally stunted and shut off some people. Is society moving away from what I'd like it to be? Yes, but I can't see how you would describe the breakdown of society any other way, seeing as how you wouldn't recognize anything as a breakdown, if it fits your idea of how things are supposed to go.

This moving is not always a bad thing, we now live in a society that is much more tolerant and there are alot more freedoms and equality in sex, race and religion. Is it perfect? no course there is still a big element of these things about, but it wasn't so long ago that Women couldn't vote and blacks weren't allowed into restaruants with white ppl at all.

I agree, not all our steps forward have been in vain or been twisted to negative means.

Or you could hail it as a revolution in communication allowing me to try and express my views to someone such as yourself where i'd never have met you to interchange views, so we are both broadening our horizons and the scientific community can publish research papers allowing instant access to others in that field.

This is also true but the same technology used to allow us to share our views also allows people a crutch for their social interaction (hey let's spend all our time in MMO's and online forums), and a pandora's box of misguided information and paranoia (Tone, and the many tin-foil hat sites that you see on the internet). Now don't get me wrong, I know technology is always a two-edged sword, and with the right (or at least moderately acceptable) family/ friend prescense, you won't fall into the "jaws of the internet", or become a hermit in your room. I just wonder if all those school shootings, and horrible acts of violence which are being done by kids (maybe I've just seen to many and they have been happening all the time) are copycat wannabes looking for attention, or a bigger threat, an underlying cry for help from our youth.

You got to look at things a bit more subjectively and realise that modern media and technology are just a tool used by humans, this will lead to some trying to exploit it, others trying to abuse it and others trying to use it to better human kind. As i said it was the same for the printing press, society is still around

True, I need to start doing this.

Well, when did that start, the lack of parenting?

Hmm.. I can't be sure when, to tell you the truth. I want to say early 90's, what with more moms going to work than before, being a "keylatch kid" or whatever they called us (both parents worked, I came home from school and had my own key to get in my house). I don't think I turned out to be some internet sociopath ready to shoot up a school, but I don't know about the kids that grew up after I did. Maybe it's the whole " you think the generation after you is the worst" thing going on.

All technology does is speed up the exchange of information. Disasters and horrors have been occuring since the beginning of time - things aren't different at all. You just see them faster.

You should instead blame mass media, especially the major networks, for overhyping stories of strife, disaster, and misery. Why? Because people are people and humans like staring at accidents as they drive down the road. Morbid curiosity drives network popularity.

Yea that's what I'm driving at Dock, we see these disasters faster and more often now, and I wonder if it's beginning to affect us on a whole at some level. After reading your post, I think you're right and feel the blame lies more with the mass media than really the internet itself (I didn't put enough blame on them in the beginning).

Don't you ever wonder if morbid curiosity drives network popularity because it's all we see anymore? Like I was talking about for my speech ideas, television companies are experiencing "follow the leader" syndrome, and have been for some time.

It's my personal feeling that our modern age is the most enlightened ever. Be happy you weren't born in the middle ages.

Well yes, the middle ages sucked ass by all accounts that I've read/learned in history class. But with this jump in technology I guess the darker side of our human race has become more obvious, and it's not so pretty to look at.

[Facetious]

i think in a lot of cases, negative attitudes are a good thing. with the technology we've developed, without some doubters, the religious right would run us into the ground even faster than they currently are. i think it may be false to assume people before us were happier in the first place, and if they were, id have to say it was because they were more religious. sure, they worked in a factory, but they had jesus!

on the factory note, i think it makes a difference what kinds of employment people find. in our country, the jobs that are most rewarded financially tend to be the jobs where people dont actually make or create anything (at least as far as lower-tier jobs, obviously company founders, ceos, etc get paid a lot). ive found jobs are more rewarding when youre building or doing, not moving paper around for some vague monetary gain. however, it takes a strong person to find satisfaction in a construction job when you know your lazy-ass manager is making twice as much as you to essentially do nothing, the i.t. guy who supports your managers computer makes twice as him for doing even less, and the manager of that i.t. guy makes twice as much as him for doing the least.

[Liquid Blue]

Asked this question on another board, found a response that supports mine- so I'll c/p it here! :grin:

I must say, that is a good observation. Even when people see something like this usually the typical response is to not address it. If no one else speaks out on it than there must be nothing wrong, but it only takes one voice to allow those who feel the same to speak out on it.

There is no real simple answer that encompasses why this is the case, but there are a few things I wish to add to your observation. I see groups of people everyday who walk by each other yet have not the slightest idea who each other is. Example, in college I see similar faces all the time but I do not know anything about them. This disconnection from people can lead to a sense of solitude even in a crowded area. The media just perpetuates that sense of disconnection by treating those stories that happen as though it was to some distant far away people that you will never contact. The constant advertising that takes place perpetuates the sole concern for oneself and not the concern for others. Most advertisements are self oriented, which makes the concept of being self-less a foreign idea.

In my opinion this idea of being engrossed in oneself as oppossed to those around you has caused a lot of disconnection, and this leads to the loneliness and bitterness that you have witnessed. We are in a way taught to strive for self improvement (which is a good thing), but it is done in a way leading to being unaware of those around you. All the symptoms that you spoke of may be a crying out for connection or being noticed.

In the past with the hardships that took place there was a unifying effect that it had on people. The great depression although was a horrible time of struggle brought people together to help each other. There were exceptions even then where some people were trying to exploit others, but overall the people were connected in their struggle. Nowadays it seems to me that people feel their struggle to be mainly individual, and therefore the lack of bond between others does not arise.

Many things can just add to this effect of disconnection, but that is my overall idea as to why things like you described occur. I just want to point out that it was a good idea to start this thread, and I thank you for your openess in sharing something that you have seen to the rest of us.

[Pressure Drop]

WARNING: i ramble something shocking in this post after rereading it


look to be honest this disconnection from one another and the "break down" your looking for is less to do with modern technology and more to do with societies attitude as it moved from a rural background to a big city one.

When people live in very small communities they usually get to know one another however in a big city this is completely impossible. You might see the same faces but are you really going to say hi to the 500 ppl you see on a regular basis in university, its not very practical.

You get used to walking by or buying things from people without acknowledging them more than saying please and thanks and instead only really acknowledge your friends. In order for us to function in a big society it is necessary to cut yourselves off from ppl, everyone will do it to a certain extent. You'll walk by thousands off people without even looking or thinking about them, if you did you'd probably go mad. It is a given in the society that it would take to much time and effort if everyone was going to have small talk to the random cashier at some store.

People are a varied bunch and have very different interests. I once had a Maths teacher at college who was wild into "the history of maths" and he would include it in his lectures and talk to ppl about it every day on the way out the door. He never seemed to realise that not everyone found it as riveting as him that they used to put some mathematicians heads on some stamps. There will always be people who take things to the extremes, where most people can appreciate the beutay of a wild colourfull bird others will want to learn every latin name for every bird and see every bird in there country and tick it off a list. Whilst most of the population can go out for a social drink or once in a while place a bet or play poker others get terrible addicted to them.

I really think your blaming the tool rather than the people for playing to much computer games or talking to much and caring to much on forums etc... You can't blame the birds for the obsessive bird watchers. While the internet is alot different you still got to question parenting and will power of the individual before the games etc... Though i do concede there is almost peer pressure to become addicted to a game like this to the young and nieve as ppl compete and boast for ?usage and the general population call each other EZ NEWBIE etc... though peer pressure is part of society and it is probably best to learn to ignore it from the idiots of TW rather than ppl at school getting you hooked on crack


I'm not happy with the media or a lot of society but it is too easy to bash the media for any means. The fact is people don't have to buy the media and yet most is for profit, they print these stories because they sell ... Many people want to read the latest celebrity whore fucking all around them whacked out on drugs. If they are sensationalizing the stories, is it because they want you to become captivated so you don't turn over during a break?

Rather than blame it on technology i think it is more prudent to question the role of the media in our society, yes it probably should be free from state control but should it have a strict independent governing body? be for profit? should it be run by a mix panel that represents the community and different political ideas? should it be more responsible and less scaremongering over things like Avian flu? or should it be allowed to do what ever it pleases?

The media is a very powerful tool and that is why control over it is such a contentious issue and in our Democratic Capitalist system the media has to be free, but it seems ok for a right wing business man to take control over a vast section and use it to subvert his ideas on the general public simply because he was rich .?. (Rupurt Murdoch if anyone was wondering)

[Liquid Blue]

look to be honest this disconnection from one another and the "break down" your looking for is less to do with modern technology and more to do with societies attitude as it moved from a rural background to a big city one.

When people live in very small communities they usually get to know one another however in a big city this is completely impossible. You might see the same faces but are you really going to say hi to the 500 ppl you see on a regular basis in university, its not very practical.

I don't think it has so much to do with the attitude when moving from a rural background to a big city one. My college for example, is quite small, over the past 2 and a half years, I've seen the same 50-60 people, while at most colleges you see 50 people per class, or per hour. Does that mean we all know each other? No, I can honestly say that I don't know the personal business or lives of more than 10 people that go to my school, and again these are people I've seen almost every day for a number of years. I'm not saying you need to know everyone's life story, or that you need to say hello to 500 people- simply that we need to get rid of the "avoid eye contact " mentality. You know what I'm talking about, if you make eye contact with a stranger, you quickly look away, some people avoid eye contact to prevent strangers from talking to them or starting conversations. It's really not about saying hi to everyone, but how comfortable you are with saying hello to someone you don't know, or being greeted by a random stranger on the street.

You get used to walking by or buying things from people without acknowledging them more than saying please and thanks and instead only really acknowledge your friends. In order for us to function in a big society it is necessary to cut yourselves off from ppl, everyone will do it to a certain extent. You'll walk by thousands off people without even looking or thinking about them, if you did you'd probably go mad. It is a given in the society that it would take to much time and effort if everyone was going to have small talk to the random cashier at some store.

I don't think it's necessary to cut yourself off from everyone else in order to function in a big society. There is a difference in staying focused on your work and cutting yourself off in order to function. That makes us sound like we need to be robots, cogs in a machine in order to operate. You can stay focused on your work and still smile or greet someone warmly at your job, I didn't mean to imply that you needed to chat with every stranger you see. I think you're misunderstanding my meaning and only seeing the extreme of what I'm trying to get at here.

There will always be people who take things to the extremes, where most people can appreciate the beutay of a wild colourfull bird others will want to learn every latin name for every bird and see every bird in there country and tick it off a list.

I really think your blaming the tool rather than the people for playing to much computer games or talking to much and caring to much on forums etc... You can't blame the birds for the obsessive bird watchers.

Again I'm not only blaming the internet, and I'm not only blaming the media, and I'm not only blaming the parents. I blame the two latter (media+parents), and am saying that some are rushing to the internet to find solace, to fill the gap created in their lives.

While the internet is alot different you still got to question parenting and will power of the individual before the games etc...

I did that earlier, and Ashless asked me to elaborate, which I did after that.

I'm not happy with the media or a lot of society but it is too easy to bash the media for any means. The fact is people don't have to buy the media and yet most is for profit, they print these stories because they sell ... Many people want to read the latest celebrity whore fucking all around them whacked out on drugs. If they are sensationalizing the stories, is it because they want you to become captivated so you don't turn over during a break?

Of course I'm going to blame the media, people buy the media through cable subscriptions and buying the newspaper. They want to be informed, entertained, which the media does to an extent- but it also focuses on the violence, the gore, all the bad stuff way to much in my opinion. That's life though, I know this- just wish it could be slightly different somehow.

Rather than blame it on technology i think it is more prudent to question the role of the media in our society, yes it probably should be free from state control but should it have a strict independent governing body? be for profit? should it be run by a mix panel that represents the community and different political ideas? should it be more responsible and less scaremongering over things like Avian flu? or should it be allowed to do what ever it pleases?

Spreading fear and inciting paranoia are my two biggest problems with the media, it already has a powerful role in our society and I don't believe it's living up to the responsibility that comes with such power. The media is already in it for profit, otherwise you wouldn't see 85 CSI shows, boobies/sexual themes and anime.

The media is a very powerful tool and that is why control over it is such a contentious issue and in our Democratic Capitalist system the media has to be free, but it seems ok for a right wing business man to take control over a vast section and use it to subvert his ideas on the general public simply because he was rich .?. (Rupurt Murdoch if anyone was wondering)

Men in power are going to want more power, and will get it by any means necessary. They see the influence that the media has, and twists it, distorts it and controls what flows through it in order to boost their own agendas.

[404 Not Found]

We seem to have become a world that is interdependent upon one another, due to the means of mass transportation and electronic news coverage.

People in different areas of the world 20 yrs ago did not have anything to go upon other than the newspapers and local TV news stations. Technology itself has opened the eyes of many to see what is happening in each corner of the globe with reports of catastrophic & political events within in minutes. This was not at everyones fingertips a decade or two ago.

Go back 20 yrs and think about it. Cable TV was coming into its own. The net was not the net, but alot of private BBS servers. You where the shit if your family had cable and a TV in every room....and the bonus was to have a VCR player with every TV.

I do not think that all has changed so much, except that the world has become a smaller place since the communications and means of news/entertainment...and games like TW have come into the picture.

You could blame Insurance companies and lawyers for a mass amount of changes that effect the kids of today in the States. Swim clubs cannot have high diving boards anymore due to insurance. Public Schools have decreased the amount of monies and classes for physical educatiuon/health/arts and sciences, just so that one test can be upheld with the GW Bush No Child Left Behind law. Public schools no longer have a wood shop or metal shop in fear that children will cut off their hands. So now they graduate and cannot even tell you the difference from a regular screwdriver and a phillips head. I had to take a class, as well as everyone in my day, Home Economics when I was 11...kids today do not have this. I can say from my experience in seeing the kids that graduate today, that they cannot even boil water, make an egg or let alone, iron a shirt!

In regards to the States, we are breeding a generation of idiots that could not even write a assignment/paper by hand. When I was in college, everything had to be written by hand and grammar counted! no spell check!!!!!

Technology has taken away the finer things that made culture what it was and is leaving it in a state of...just push a button to fix it mentality.

I would only make one change to society where I live and that would be to not let children use computers. Teach them how to write with there hands, as well as make sure they can use there hands for other tasks other than hitting an "Enter" button. teachers are half at fault as they do not want to decifer the kids handwriting, so they want them to type it!

So many ill's in society today and if I could blame three things...Technology, Lawyers & Insurance Companies.

You wanna make a good living here in the states in the future...learn how to use your hands and become and electrician, plumber or machinist! they are gonna rack in the bucks since the kids of the future are such mental retards! not all of them, but alot!

[Facetious]

i cant say that i would have been in any way better off writing by hand. i have absolutely horrendous handwriting, and if id been forced to write all my assignments by hand, i would have put significantly less time into them. i would especially not understand this if computers existed and they were making me write by hand for no reason.

[404 Not Found]

But if more time from an early start had been placed on handwriting, perhaps the difficulty and a better understanding of grammar could be achieved.

Not to say it would be a save all by having people write all there papers, but it would help. I know that my nephew and shall I dare to say "step-son" have horrible handwriting and they both could care less. As for there time spent doing other things? hmmm X-Box, play station, watching TV....these are some of the activities that are being missed when they have to actually do homework and man do they cry about it. F'um...they should only bring back the draft and see what useless individuals they are.

Reminds me of the Simpsons epsiode...omg...I am quoting a cartoon! When Marge makes Itchy & Scratchy less violent, the kids stop watching and it seems that for the 1st time in there lives they go outside and do something other than sit on there ass. I would definately be amazed to see a playground filled with kids today. We use to have some awesome street hockey games back in my day, yet the only hockey you see is a kid playing a video game. Not that this answers anything as I am totally disheveled today, but I thought I'd offer a reply and a gripe of todays society.


BTW...Nice win this past weekend Facetious!...am glad to see ya beat Exotic's team no offense to Exotic, yet he was high in the rankings...needed to level out the FFL playing field!