Abortion

[Theif of Time]

I don't think a majority of the people on this thread are mature enough to discuss the topic.

I think you'd need to have actually gone through the decision making process to have or not have an abortion (Either you personally, or a very close friend, or your partner) to make proper judgements on it.

Up until one of us has gone through something like that, all we have is empty ideology.

[Doc Flabby]

right and wrong is determining which action leads to reduction/elimination of suffering and/or increased pleasure. all things lead to pleasure/pain net balance therefore there is no other logical determination of right and wrong.

That is a utilitarian approach to ethics - actually there are other ways of determining right and wrong.

However arguing from a unitiliarian approach. What about the suffering of the unborn child to take into account as well as that of the parent(s). Also how do you not know that the child if it is born not bring happyness to life of the parent greater than that which they would have had otherwise, of course the inverse of that could be equally true.

I think it comes down to individual judgment in the end. And it is ultimatly and should be the potential mother's choice. Personally i would not want people to have abortions but thats my optionion however I would respect someone's choice to do so because it it a difficult descion and i can see why people would choose that option. Espcially in certain situations, and i definitatly dont think banning it would be benefital in any way.

[SEAL]

But they don't even have real knowledge, .....

And you do?
Understand this: We don't see things as they are; we see things are we are.
This isn't harcore math; it's pure a simple logical thing.

I would have to agree with DoTheFandango, let people make their own desision. Although in the "real world" people, like pandagirl, judge you anyways. Good thing is that people always have opinions about everybody, so the value of those opinions is up to yourself.

[Money]

If there's grass on the field, PLAYBALL!

[syzygy]

...the reduction of suffering is first priority followed by the enhancement of pleasure....

spoken like a true worldly man.

...Although in the "real world" people, like pandagirl, judge you anyways....

i'd have less of a problem reading this if you didn't point out a sole person. the fact is, everyone judges, whether they let it show or not.

"You can't judge a book by its cover."
-Thomas Grey

"You should judge a book by the pages within."
-syz

[Mr. Peanuts]

"You can't judge a book by its cover."
-Thomas Grey

"You should judge a book by the pages within."
-syz

Oh, right, i wouldnt have known what that first quote meant unless you put that second one. thanks

<3 bleakfuture

[syzygy]

it's to make the point that everyone judges, just in a different manner. and one is more acceptable than the other.

[RaCka]

Kill her. Then you don't have to worry about her or the baby.

And then perhaps we'll never see you again, either.

You can solve so much by killing someone.

lmao thanks for literally making me lol over readin something on the computer..

[SEAL]

i'd have less of a problem reading this if you didn't point out a sole person. the fact is, everyone judges, whether they let it show or not.

Good thing is that people always have opinions about everybody

Thank you for thoroughly reading my message.

[Lucon]

right and wrong is determining which action leads to reduction/elimination of suffering and/or increased pleasure. all things lead to pleasure/pain net balance therefore there is no other logical determination of right and wrong. all other determinations such as natural law would be opinion and place wellbeing second or not consider it at all (example: natural law being against homosexuality does nothing but causes suffering for homosexuals who do nothing to anyone else, and thus is unethical, the exact opposite of what it claims to be, Ethics) . since wellbeing level is the ultimate conseqeunce of every thought and action, nothing else exists as objective determination. the reduction of suffering is first priority followed by the enhancement of pleasure. abortion prevents suffering and is therefore ethical and right, in many cases very clearly so, such as genetic abnormalities, rape, unwanted or unprepared for child, potential child waiting for adoption.

- Tone

You're still operating under the assumption that the reduction of pain and the increase of pleasure for everyone is something that should be striven for, for whatever reason. What reason is that? (This is a semi-rhetorical question since there really isn't a reason, which is also why you're incorrect.)

[Lucon]

And you do?
Understand this: We don't see things as they are; we see things are we are.
This isn't harcore math; it's pure a simple logical thing.

I would have to agree with DoTheFandango, let people make their own desision. Although in the "real world" people, like pandagirl, judge you anyways. Good thing is that people always have opinions about everybody, so the value of those opinions is up to yourself.

Most people see things as they are. I think what you mean by that is that people always have biased based on what they already believe, correct or not. However, this conclusion that I came to was without any bias or preconceived notions. That's why I can state it as fact rather than my own view, belief, or opinion.

[syzygy]

Thank you for thoroughly reading my message.

i 'thoroughly' read it, and i still have a problem with that sentence. what you say later doesn't change the fact that you singled someone out.

[K2Grey]

If this is a free enough country so you can post your opinion on what to do on an internet forum, it's a free enough country so that you can post your criticism of someone else's opinion on an internet forum, too.

[Tone]

You're still operating under the assumption that the reduction of pain and the increase of pleasure for everyone is something that should be striven for, for whatever reason. What reason is that? (This is a semi-rhetorical question since there really isn't a reason, which is also why you're incorrect.)

no other logical reason exists. all things lead to pleasure/pain. if someone says "the meaning of life is to find god", then its the pleasure of finding god and the pain of being lost. if someone says the meaning of life is to "spiritually learn and evolve" then its the pleasure of spiritually evolving and pain of being behind" if someone says "the meaning of life is to ________ then its the pleasure of ________ and pain of _________". applys to any and everything in life. In the end, nothing exists but pleasure/pain therefore the most direct route to increase happiness and decrease suffering is the most ethical, rather than creative beliefs which leads to a wellness level anyway (often not a good wellness ratio). all the mater and energy around you and inside you simply in the end leads to an experience of many states, emotions, which in turn can be reduced to the duality of pleasure and pain.

[PH]

If I was alive and capable of kicking your mother in the stomach when she was pregnant with you, Tone, I would have done it.