War with Iran

[Jonesy]

BTW, Imam is basically the Islamic version of 'priest'.

Also, everyone knows that the President of Iran just talks a lot of crap. He says it because he can get away with it and it scores points at home. Just as Bush talks about an axis of evil when it was blatently stupid, this guy can get away with calling to wipe Israel off the map because it shores up domestic support.

Ahmadinejad is not talking about "imam", but the 12th Imam. That is a whole different story. Do a bit of research and you will find out. Below are excerpts from a couple of articles that explain it pretty well.

IMHO... these are pretty scary opinions for the President of a country, as potentially dangerous as Iran, to have. It very well could just be a load of verbal diarrhea coming out of the Iranian president's mouth, as you say Epi--but it does, at least, make one sit up and take notice.

12th, imam - the revered saviour of Shia Islam, whose reappearance after more than a millennium in occultation is awaited by believers in a manner similar to that with which Christian fundamentalists anticipate the second coming of Jesus. In Shia Islam, the hidden imam is predicted to reappear in Mecca and herald a new dawn of justice after the world has been torn asunder by violence and oppression

http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,1714431,00.html

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's Shi'ite creed has convinced him lesser mortals can not only influence but hasten the awaited return of the 12th Imam, known as the Mahdi. Iran's dominant "Twelver" sect holds this will be Muhammad ibn Hasan, the righteous descendant of the Prophet Muhammad. He is said to have gone into "occlusion" in the 9th century, at age 5. His return will be preceded by cosmic chaos, war, bloodshed and pestilence. After this cataclysmic confrontation between the forces of good and evil, the Mahdi will lead the world to an era of universal peace.
"The ultimate promise of all Divine religions," says Ahmadinejad, "will be fulfilled with the emergence of a perfect human being [the 12th Imam], who is heir to all prophets. He will lead the world to justice and absolute peace. Oh mighty Lord, I pray to you to hasten the emergence of your last repository, the promised one." He reckons the return of the Imam, AWOL for 11 centuries, is only two years away.

http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/...0341-6320r.htm

so-called 12th imam—the Shiite messiah, better known as the Mahdi, who's supposed to return and lead an apocalyptic revolution of the oppressed over vague forces of injustice.
By some accounts, the new president's first deputy, Parvis Davoudi, recently asked cabinet members during a formal meeting to pledge their allegiance to the Mahdi in a signed letter. And when Ahmadinejad was Tehran's mayor, he reportedly refurbished a major boulevard on grounds that the Mahdi was to travel along it upon his return.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10313618/site/newsweek/

Here's another good article on this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...4/ixworld.html


edit: fixed link

[Squeezer]

The ironic thing is this: The only reason that these middle eastern countries want to bomb us is because we're all up in their shit. So, if we backed out and let them make their silly nuclear power plant and showed a little bit of intellegence in understanding that if we don't give them a good reason, they aren't going to bomb us, then perhaps we could avoide situations like this.

Oh wait.....Bush is still in office. ITMFA!!!!!

[Liquid Blue]

Well if we had stayed out of Iraq, there wouldn't be nearly as much of
a negative attitude towards America when it comes to dealing with the
Middle East. It's all about choosing the right times to actually step
in and talk with the UN about doing something.

Iraq wasn't one of those times, as we all know. I personally think
that hesitation when it comes to giving Iran nuclear power is
one of those times, but our credibility is shot because of what we
did/are doing in Iraq. The same process that is used to create energy
when it comes to nuclear power plants is not that different from
making weapons- so in essence, giving Iran the ability to create
nuclear power plants is also allowing them the chance to make nuclear
bombs.

I don't think they would pop out a bomb in a year or two, but I'm not
totally sure if they are ready for the type of responsibilty that
comes with having nuclear power. With great power, comes great
responsibilty- just because you can make weapons and bombs, doesn't
mean you should. Bush has shown the world what happens when you give
someone power that isn't responsible enough to wield it- the UN (or
anyone with common sense) doesn't want that to happen again. Given the
history of Iran and the surrounding countries..I don't know, it will
just take time and more talks.

[Liquid Blue]

I have no earthly idea why it posted like that.

[WuTang420]

someday someone will realize that we shouldnt criticize what we dont know about. i guarantee there is soooooo much about the situation we dont know, and have no business knowing. i for one am down with trusting the good folks in the department of defense who STUDY this shit ALL day, everyday. if they consider iran a threat im inclined to agree. i mean, ive never been there to know otherwise.
Also, stop hating on Bush. wtf do you think hes gonna do, sabotage his own country? if he says its for the better of USA, cool.

[Zerzera]

http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com/no_bravery.swf :wub:

[genocidal]

I don't know if I would permit myself the same level of naivete as WuTang, but at least he's not being ridiculous like most of the rest of the people in the thread. It's so trendy to be anti-Bush that everyone jumps on the "everything Bush does is wrong" bandwagon - which is hardly the case.

[Zerzera]

true, he done alot of good shit.

[Liquid Blue]

I don't know if I would permit myself the same level of naivete as WuTang, but at least he's not being ridiculous like most of the rest of the people in the thread. It's so trendy to be anti-Bush that everyone jumps on the "everything Bush does is wrong" bandwagon - which is hardly the case.

True, although I don't agree that he's done "good shit". I just agree with the fact that Iran isn't a country that should be given the ability to create nuclear power plants "just like that". Talks and treaties and guidelines need to be worked out- doesn't have to be with America, I'd actually prefer the UN to do it. I say this because of their violent history with Israel, and the president's comments.

The thing is, since Iraq was invaded before this became a huge situation, anything America does now (even wanting to talk with Iran to get them to lessen the hostile attitude towards Israel) will be frowned upon, it will just seem like we're "policing the world" again.

[Zerzera]

[Kolar]

someday someone will realize that we shouldnt criticize what we dont know about. i guarantee there is soooooo much about the situation we dont know, and have no business knowing. i for one am down with trusting the good folks in the department of defense who STUDY this shit ALL day, everyday. if they consider iran a threat im inclined to agree. i mean, ive never been there to know otherwise.
Also, stop hating on Bush. wtf do you think hes gonna do, sabotage his own country? if he says its for the better of USA, cool.

Blind obedience. Beautiful.

What else is there to know? seriously. Iran is enriching Uranium to be used in nuclear power plants, this opens the door for them to making a bomb, the Govnt. of Iran is controlled by extremist who wouldn't think twice about using the technology on their own people much less a neighbouring state.Is it that you just don't care or don't have enough time to have an opinion WuTang420? I mean if all you do is trust elected officals to tell you what's what you tend to get fucked over.

As for Bush, I think he's done enough to show that the economic well being of him self and his friends comes before the safety & security and economic well being of his country and allies. I don't see how anyone could actually like what this man has done in 5 or 6 years in power Genocial, I think everyone has a right to be a little pissed at the man. For someone who has done almost everything wrong in the middle east, to be dealing with an almost nuclear power is unnerving at best. I want the best for the US because Canada is a close ally but I also feel that criticism is a necessary tool. It's not anti-American, un-patriotic or unholy.. or wrong in anyway to do so. Maybe you should stop questioning everyones motives and actually talk to people, all I ever see you do is go at people for having an opinion and praising idiot sheep like 420.

[404 Not Found]

Could someone list the good that Bush has done? Not to be anti Bush, but I was never a fan of hiM from the days he was an owner of the Texas Rangers.

I have had a dislike for the Bush family since George Sr. was VP to Reagan.

The no child left behind = fiasco with education systems in the States.

medicare = twice as confusing and screwed up more now

Social Security = never revamped it, but did allow the Fed to borrow from it and never pay it back. Look for this to be added to your Taxes with the next president.

His Tax cut in his first term = ends up it does not benefit the middle class or poor....helps the rich from paying 1/3 of what they had to pay prior to this tax break. Hmmm Bush and Cheney fall into this tax bracket?

Homeland Security = One f' up after another

Denial of cliamte change = global warming is worse than previously thought... greenland ice is melting, the gulf stream is slowed by 1/3 in a decade, permifrost is melting in russia revealing bogs which relase methane and some scientists believe we may even get a perminant el ninio effect but still some countries (USA) are so far up their asses that they dont see whats comming. Bush denies that these are real problems and will not come to the table in efforts to work with the world on this.


Could keep goin on and on with this...I dislike Bush...obviously.

GWB, should play the part of Pinoccio...this guy has done nothing but lie to everyone for his seemingly private agenda. It's all Ohio's fault anyway...they deserve the unemployment and loss of jobs. F'm

Someone just list 10 positive things that he has done that are beneficial to everyone?

[Kolar]

He's out in 08 or sooner 404 if the Democrats can rightfully impeach him. Normally out going leaders tend to leave office on a bad note (doing something semi-illegal/abusing power) which I think will be getting Tom Delay, Bill Frist, Dick Cheaney, Randy Cunningham, Scooter Libby, Tom Noe, Himself, Jack Abramoff, Adam Kidan, Shaun Hansen, Chuck McGee, Allen Raymond, James Tobin, Bob Ney.... and friends.. off the hook.

I hope until then he doesn't push for unilateral action on Iran because it won't be as easy as driving some tanks into Iraq, it would be a real war and the Iranians will drag it out. After that we will have alianted another population who liked us before we bomb the fuck out of their country. If there is going to be a war or any action it has to be sanctioned by the UN, so China and Russia and other major powers are not pulled into this. Everything else until then is pretty much moot, Bush and his Republicans not going to change in the next 2 years.

[Capital Knockers]

2012. Nuclear threat from the middle east, egged on by stupid western administrations and their ignorance of other cultures (not to mention the lust for power and money). You people don't think it'll come down to it?

Honestly every american here answer me! How much shit do you think the Middle East will take from you? They've been around longer then we have, they won't back down. This war in Iraq - scratch that, any war started by the U.S. in the last 50 years has been bullshit, a waste of money, and has tarnished a good peoples image on the world stage!

Do you not think it'll happen? That there isn't at least one guy over in the Middle East crazy enough to push the fucking button? Keep slapping the bee-hive your going to get stung. Stupid stupid stupid.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

I disagree with the statement that every war started by the US within the past 50 years has been pointless.

While I'll agree that Iraq was a bad idea, I think interventions in Afghanistan and Kosovo were warranted and will ultimately benefit everyone involved. I think that certain things could have been planned better in both military actions, however hindsight is 20/20 and there's no use shoe-gazing about it now.

While some things haven't gone well, it's the sweeping generalizations (like the ones above) and the "fuck you, everything's fucked up because of YOU" attitude that doesn't make anything better. Is the US to blame for everything? Of course not. Is it partially to blame? Of course. But it's just as fucking ludicrous as it was when the Muslim world erupted over the Dutch Mohammed cartoons and started burning US flags--what the fuck? I'll be the first to say that the western world needs to be more accepting of the Muslim world (it has a long way to go), but there's extremism on both sides of the fence.