HeavenSent is bigoted

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Okay, this thread isn't about PETA. Paul can rest his weary head. (It's all love, Paul, just not the penis-to-butthole kind. We should all be worried about what two adults do in the privacy of their own home.)

No, you've just decided, "Hey there's a Christian i can bash for his beliefs... let's try and push his buttons."

Actually, I just decided to out a hypocrite.

It was your options that were narrow minded. I stated my choice and has it's been with past posts, unless it's what you're looking for, it's unacceptable.

How is it narrow-minded of me to allow other people to make decisions for themselves? I'm not saying that you can't believe in Jesus and God all you want. Shit, for all I care, you can believe that Jesus rode a purple unicorn and delivered Jolly Ranchers to all the Martian boys and girls while playing a trombone. I truly do not give a fuck what you believe, but I do care when you try and force those beliefs on other people. I'm not saying you have to change. Go on and be the best little Christian you can be!

How 'bout the thought of parents that have to tell their kids why Sally & Tom have 2 mommies or 2 daddies? How 'bout the child being ridiculed in school because he/she has a couple of queers for parents? This is the kind of burden i'm talking about. It's not fair to the child.

I agree--it's not fair to a child that society is so incredibly bigoted when it comes to same-sex unions. But whose fault is that? A lack of education is no excuse. But you're part of the problem here--by using terms like "queers," you're putting the horse before the cart and claiming that just because it's "accepted" that same-sex is "wrong," that we should just continue to reinforce and insulate children from homosexuality. Families should be about unconditional love--I think we can agree on that fact at least. So who fucking cares if that love is from two men, two women, or a woman and a man? Biology dictates reproduction, but it doesn't dictate love.

You can believe whatever you want. The fact of the matter is that you started this... off topic no less.... Moreover, seemingly looking for validation on your own opinions. Validating is for the insecure.

Validation is actually for the scientifically-minded, but whatever. You go ahead and believe that I'm the "queer-loving" pagan who burns babies because I like how burning baby flesh smells.

Make up your mind, is it my PERSONAL beliefs or is it my Christian viewpoint. If it's my Christian viewpoint, which it is, then it wouldn't be personal.. it'd be a collective understanding on a spiritual philosophy, shared by all that subscribe to the same.

I wouldn't call it the all-encompassing Christian viewpoint, though. If you notice, you're the only one here spouting intolerance, yet there are undoubtedly LOTS of other Christians on this message board. You're skewing a doctrine of love and understanding towards your own intolerant (PERSONAL) viewpoints. As far as I know, the word "fag" never showed up in the bible.

No for those that give a shit, it's HeavenSent with nothing better to do at the moment than to entertain the TRUE HATER.

I'm not a player, I just fuck a lot.

Again, you're the one reaching for some validation. Common sense is good enough for me.

But it's NOT COMMON SENSE. If it were common sense, then there wouldn't be an entire science developed around studying it, would there?

Hey asshole, Christian hater. The only thing you got on me is your preconceived ideas of Christians in general. There's a lot of evil people out there claiming to be Christian and throwing the things that God really cares for out the window, while promoting all kinds of rules, rituals and traditions that confuse the truth and discourage true seekers of God's comforting relationship.

I'm not a Christian hater at all. I grew up in a Methodist household, and I know a LOT of Christians who are really great people and who have a really great handle on the basic tenets of Christianity. Most of them don't have this rampant hate for others that you seem to have, and most of them believe that every person has the right to make their own decision when it comes to their own lives. Every once in a while though, someone takes up a doctrine of hate under the banner of "Christian values" and claims that everyone who doesn't agree with them is a "Christian hater." It's those people I can't stand. It's the same as labelling people against the Iraq war as "un-American." It's bullshit. To quote Bachem Mucuno:

It allows the Administration to absolve itself of responsibility for its own flawed policy. It’s no different than if you sent a classroom of 2nd graders into a burning building, and when anyone objects you throw in their face that they "don’t support our 2nd graders"

HAHA For everyone pointing their finger at me, there three more fingers pointing back at them. HAHA Like i really care what what your kind think. Truth is all that matters in this world, and you and your kind will be instructed in the next life to get with the Godly program or cease to exist. It's your choice.

Maybe you should take this opportunity to really THINK about what you're saying. If the Bible and the teachings of Jesus are about loving your fellow man, then why all the hate? Why all the didactic rhetoric? What makes you think that (assuming heaven exists) I'll somehow get ejected from entering the pearly gates for caring about humanity on a whole while your hate-mongering ass will strut in with a pimp cane?

[Jerome Scuggs]

Just because I'd like to take this to another thread as well:

Unfortunately he speaks for a good majority of them. This 'moral' majority has to stop bringing this issue into politics because as much as they might believe some super deity tells them to oppresse, segregate and in some cases hurt and kill some "mentally ill" people or that social control is the Government's top priority; it is unconstitutional, illegal and an a front to our freedom as much as is chaining up all the black people or throwing all Chinese people into labour camps. We have a long history of brutal, sick and disgusting oppression in our society. I think it's time to end it, this isn't the 1950s or the 1500s.

This sort of thing annoys me (not your reply, but the truth within it). I was on our school's Teenage Republican club, vice-president, and everyone in it with the exception of a few, were pretty stupid and ignorant. Whereas I like to justify my stances on abortion with real, solid facts - these guys were like, "GOD SEZ" left and right. And that annoyed me, because searching for a real, plausible reason isn't hard at all, just takes some logic.

I'm going through, once again, a Kierkegaard-esque phase, so excuse my bitching

[tugs]

i think what worries me most is the possibility that people don't consider christianity as a possibility for themselves because that would somehow turn them into people that go and force "god's will" on others.

sometimes i think that someone should be put in isolation for their whole childhood, then given a copy of the bible, koran, origin of species :P whatever, just to get an objective judgement of these religions.

no, maybe that's a stupid idea

[Jrahen]

too much drama go take a shower or something.

[DoTheFandango]

Just because I'd like to take this to another thread as well:

This sort of thing annoys me (not your reply, but the truth within it). I was on our school's Teenage Republican club, vice-president, and everyone in it with the exception of a few, were pretty stupid and ignorant. Whereas I like to justify my stances on abortion with real, solid facts - these guys were like, "GOD SEZ" left and right. And that annoyed me, because searching for a real, plausible reason isn't hard at all, just takes some logic.

I'm going through, once again, a Kierkegaard-esque phase, so excuse my bitching

Teenage Democrat club isn't much better Jerome. It's a bunch of hippies who have no better ideas then to "do something about it".

Sons of bitches.

[HeavenSent]

I think this should go in TRASH TALK

oh and i'm flattered btw. :wub:

[ÆNIMA]

Honestly Concrete, not that I have anything against you, or against Heavensent (which I don't). I feel like the fact that you dedicate an entire post and say, at least 20 minutes was dedicated to making someone else look bad doesn't make you look any better.

I would also like to pose the question, seeing that you care for humanity as a whole, is publicly unmasking a hypocrite as opposed to privately doing so really the best way to go about making things better? Perhaps to change the ways of the hypocrite instead of turning everyone against him could have better results. Allow me to give an example, excuse me if it's poor.

(and I beg you, if you feel this was not the case, consider it as a fictional circumstance to avoid further digression)

Thomas Jefferson took steps to stop slavery. It is, and probably was very well-known that he owned over 100 slaves. Slavery wasn't abolished in America until a little under a century after his death. Most of us can at least fathom how persuasive the man was, but slavery persisted and it may have had something to do with the fact that he was acting very hypocraticly and people knew it.

So, also considering Heavensent, which would have been better for humanity, a) all people would know that an advocate for something that many considered good was a hypocrite and thus, that good thing is delayed.
b) the hypocracy remain concealed while the advocate sins in his own claims
or c) the hypocrit cured.

I think that this sheds light on my point of view, that we shouldn't criticize others, we should just help everyone become a little better, even if it's as slow as one person at a time.

[tugs]

too much drama go take a shower or something.

advice about to be taken.
man i'm sickly greasy right now.

heavensent i love you, rest of you i love you too. that's all

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Aenima, while I agree that the title of the thread is quite a bit provacative, I didn't make this thread to make HeavenSent look bad. I made this thread because it was a conversation started in another thread, and I felt we had already derailed that thread enough--it rightfully needed to be moved somewhere. It's a touchy subject, and I can fully understand (and welcome) conversation about it.

But when the first response I get comes back full of "fag," "queer," "gay ass," and all sorts of other epithets, I tend to get a little ruffled.

Is it best to unmask a hypocrite in a public forum? I believe so, yes. You see, if someone gets to spout hate in a public forum, I feel like I should get to strip that argument in that same public forum. Otherwise, people see one side of an argument and tend to assume that that one side is the "right" side.

[Sarien]

If you have a choice of a child being raised in an abusive, yet hetero, household, would you choose that over a loving homosexual household?

I would choose none of the above.

So, is that a vote for abortion? Or do you just not want to admit that where Daddy puts his pee pee in Other-Daddy is not relevant to whether or not you were clothed, well fed, well educated, and well taken care of throughout your formative years?

Yes, but it shoud not be called marriage. Marriage is for a man and a woman.

Marriage is a vow before God that this union will love and cherish, 'til death, d[o] us part.

God says homosexuality is a perversion and an abomination before Him.

Why would law-making, God fearing people wanna temp[t] God to anger and be responsible for bringing God's wrath on this nation for such complacency?

Gays that go before God to proclaim their union are like chidren smiting their parents.

So for the past several decades, we've had men and women getting legally married without making any such vow before god. They have gotten married at a justice of the peace, at city hall, by a witch doctor, by ship captains, and best of all.. BY COMMON LAW. Look up what a common law marriage is for a real noodle twister. Why haven't people been getting all up in arms about why those shouldn't be called marriages? Just because the participants happen to be man and a woman? So you should either work it out, because either you just want to exclude the gays, or you want to exclude all secular marriage. Which is it?

Let me see if I can work this law thing out, because this is a good one. Not just good, this one is GREAT.

You don't want laws that allow things your God doesn't like because then your God might just whip up a fury of rage and smite the whole country.

It isn't just laws that would make it mandatory for your God's will to be circumvented for you, a law that would make it not legal to go to church for instance?

Instead you don't want laws that even give other people the choice for themselves, and you your own choice? Wouldn't it make a difference when you're standing before your God in your afterlife, and saying "Look Lord, these other people were all violating your word, but not me, I stuck to it. Out of my own free choice and love for you."

But let's go on around the corner. What about the Old West, in the USA. What was that? The next best thing to Anarchy. People could make all kinds of choices, and the last I heard, Tombstone Arizona hadn't been bombarded by fiery meteors. There are other pockets of Anarchy around the world even today. Anarchy makes pretty much every choice wide open for everyone. I don't see God smiting them. It isn't about what choices you're allowed to make, it's about what choices you DO make, for yourself and your family.

I went back and looked at your posts from that PETA thread. I could say lots of derogatory things about you, but I'm not. You've made an error in your logic that I'm really glad to point out, in the hope that you'll re-examine and think about it.

[Sarien]

I think this should go in TRASH TALK

It might, but seeing as how the author of the thread is another forum Super Mod, I won't be the one to make the call to move it there, and I somehow doubt that neither will any of other forum mods.

Conc is a big boy, and smart enough to know the tone of the thread he's started. If it's just a "We Hate HeavenSent, c'mon and join the club" thread, he'll move it there of his own accord. He isn't afraid of the Trash Talk forum.

If you look past the name of the thread, as I did, you'll kind of see there's a deeper discussion than just that, though. It might start with you being a bigot, but it's going to go somewhere else entirely.

[Money]

Oh My God

[ÆNIMA]

I can see this thread eventually being entirely dedicated to the argument considering homosexual marriage, as it was my first inclination to reply to you, Sarien, about some of the things you said. But instead of doing so, I decided to see if you and I are thinking the same or not:P

[ÆNIMA]

BTW Conc, thanks for clarifying what was obviously a little cloudy in my mind (as I had not looked at the PETA topic until now).

I suppose that my own response to my question wouldn't be shewed. I think honestly, "curing" the hypocrite of his sin is ultimately the best option, because not only can the whole benefit, but the individual as well.

Realisticly given the circumstances here, such a result cannot be, or is really difficult to be realized. Not simply because I've known Paul before to be a little hard-headed, so to speak, but because of where we find ourselves...on a bulletin board. Opinions, I feel, can be changed, but lifestyles and personal doctrine is a great challenge.

[DoTheFandango]

Fuck this noise. Who are YOU to play legislator HeavenSent? I want you to go to a poor pregnant woman, who can barely fend for herself -- let alone another mouth, that is seeking abortion and tell her she is being forced to keep this baby.

Then I want you in 18 years from now, when this woman is in the same financial situation she was in 18 years ago, tell her that you made her life better. Then I want you to look at this kid and say that you did something good for his family.

Fuck that shit right there.