ever wondered what the statue of liberty would look like with a religious twist?

[Sarien]

Didn't happen that time either, unless someone gave Joseph a turkey baster.

[geekbot]

Sarien, why are you so angry at the world?

[Squeezer]

How is 'The virgin will be with child' vague? It's not like that happens every day is it?

Lets just say you wanted to be famous, but you have no means of becoming famous, except for the fact that you're intelligent enough to trick others into believing you're the messiah. Then, lets say you convince your mom to go along with the whole thing. Wa-lah! Now you can claim you're the messiah, and mother dearest can live her life in fame.

Or, perhaps Jesus was crazy. I mean, think about it; if someone were to come up to you today and claim to be the messiah reincarnated, you would think him mentally ill. Hell, there's a guy downtown that holds a sign claiming he's Jesus, and everyone knows he's insane. Maybe it was the same with Jesus during that time.

Besides, after all the Church's editing done to the bible, we can't really be sure what witnesses saw Jesus do, and what the church wanted Jesus to be seen doing.

[Troll King]

And that's where all religious discussions come to a dead stop. You either have faith or you don't, arguing any more will change nothing. If you have faith and you believe, then that's good enough. Ditto if you don't believe. If you keep asking for some level of proof or truth then this will go on forever because, at some point, faith has to play a role. To press on without understanding that is missing the whole point of religion.

[Squeezer]

And that's where all religious discussions come to a dead stop. You either have faith or you don't, arguing any more will change nothing. If you have faith and you believe, then that's good enough. Ditto if you don't believe. If you keep asking for some level of proof or truth then this will go on forever because, at some point, faith has to play a role. To press on without understanding that is missing the whole point of religion.

So why not put faith in things that can be proven, without a doubt to be true.

Faith is a silly security blanket.

[Troll King]

Because that's not what faith is. Faith is by definition belief without the need for proof. Look it up in the dictionary yourself. If you put such little stock in faith, then apply it to areas outside of religion. If you girlfriend tells you that she will never cheat on you and you demand absolute proof that it would never happen instead of having faith in her then you deserve to be dumped. At some point faith plays a role, and that's especially true with religion. To say that faith is a silly security blanket just proves my last point: that you are missing the whole point of religion.

[Squeezer]

Because that's not what faith is. Faith is by definition belief without the need for proof. Look it up in the dictionary yourself. If you put such little stock in faith, then apply it to areas outside of religion. If you girlfriend tells you that she will never cheat on you and you demand absolute proof that it would never happen instead of having faith in her then you deserve to be dumped. At some point faith plays a role, and that's especially true with religion. To say that faith is a silly security blanket just proves my last point: that you are missing the whole point of religion.

How am I missing the point? I understand the point fully, and got to listen to all the points for four years. I used to have a religion teacher that would say the same thing when backed into a corner. "You either believe, or you don't believe." Believe me, I get it.

Faith is a silly security blanket. For me, personally, I KNOW that my girlfriend wouldn't cheat on me. There's a big difference. Faith is a silly security blanket for people that don't definatively know something.

[Superted]

Then, lets say you convince your mom to go along with the whole thing. Wa-lah! Now you can claim you're the messiah, and mother dearest can live her life in fame.

Like tell her where you want to be born for example?

Or, perhaps Jesus was crazy.

Jesus could be either one of three things. Either he was crazy, evil or telling the whole truth. If he were crazy would he preach good teachings that we still hold too today? If he were evil, would he have died for his evil scheme? Whatever that may be.

Again it's all down to our faith. I believe in God etc and so I look at the teachings with that in mind. You have faith in the big bang and evolution (I assume) and so you look at what's written with that in mind. We tend to percieve it based on our original beliefs and accept all arguments for it while disregarding most that are against it (even though some of us try to be open minded). We all have faith in something Squeezer, it's part of being human. You can't escape it.

[Troll King]

How am I missing the point? I understand the point fully, and got to listen to all the points for four years. I used to have a religion teacher that would say the same thing when backed into a corner. "You either believe, or you don't believe." Believe me, I get it.

Faith is a silly security blanket. For me, personally, I KNOW that my girlfriend wouldn't cheat on me. There's a big difference. Faith is a silly security blanket for people that don't definatively know something.

How do you know? Do you have her under 24/7 surveillance? Do you have absolute proof that it will never ever, under any circumstances, possibly happen? When you say you "KNOW", I call that faith in your girlfriend and the belief that she would never do something like that. That's why it's called being "faithful". Can you prove that that will never ever happen, without a shadow of a doubt? No. Faith isn't a security blanket for people that don't definitely know something. Faith is believing something that can't be proven.

As for not how you're missing the point: you're asking people to support their religion without citing faith as a reason. The problem is that religion is based entirely on faith. Without faith, there's no such thing as religion. You're basically saying: "ignore what you believe and just look at the facts." But when the topic is religion, you can't throw it out the window. That's where these discussions will ultimately reach a dead end.

[Sarien]

Sarien, why are you so angry at the world?

Because it's Tuesday.

[Squeezer]

How do you know? Do you have her under 24/7 surveillance? Do you have absolute proof that it will never ever, under any circumstances, possibly happen? When you say you "KNOW", I call that faith in your girlfriend and the belief that she would never do something like that. That's why it's called being "faithful". Can you prove that that will never ever happen, without a shadow of a doubt? No. Faith isn't a security blanket for people that don't definitely know something. Faith is believing something that can't be proven.

As for not how you're missing the point: you're asking people to support their religion without citing faith as a reason. The problem is that religion is based entirely on faith. Without faith, there's no such thing as religion. You're basically saying: "ignore what you believe and just look at the facts." But when the topic is religion, you can't throw it out the window. That's where these discussions will ultimately reach a dead end.

I'm just gonna agree to disagree with you homie.

[Troll King]

Which was my point: once it comes down to a matter of faith, you can't really continue any discussion.

[Pearl Jam]

Naive, she wrote.

I'm just gonna agree to disagree with you homie.

You were speaking of excuses used when backed into corners...

[Clump]

actually, i did wonder -_-

[Jeenyuss]

actually, i did wonder -_-

did this thread quench that curiousity?