Israel / Lebanon Shit storm

[Izor]

Odd that so many from the States can throw stones at Israel for the actions taking place, yet I do not see 1/2 of the anger or resonance from the words here pointing on how the U.S. has created 9/10's of these problems to begin with. Before anyone from the States spouts off at Israel, look at GWB and his stupid f'n false war(s)! We went to war based upon 100% false information.

No need to read past this, more irrelevant bullshit about our politics, which have nothing to do with the current conflict.

"Military" targets such as:

* Bridges (Hey, let make it so people have no way to move to get their food)
* Civilian Airports (Yea, i bet hizbollah smuggles in their katyusha rockets in their carry-on luggage...)
* All Major Roads (Which will result in no way to escape the israeli bombs. Even those trying to escape in, say, a minibus, will get bombed by israel--who will just assume you are a terrorist)
* Power Plants (We all know that civilians don't need electricity, it's alright if they live in the dark for weeks)
* Bombing an entire block in a HIGH density area of the nation's capital, with a 500lb bomb, because a hizbollah bunker might be underground one of those buildings. (You'd think that an army with a $9 billion dollar budget could have a more covert way of doing something like this, such as by perhaps sending in a small team to detonate their way in--instead of trashing the nation's capital (and most populated) city)

Same thing I tell everyone; I'd love to see how you fight a war. What specifically do you WANT Israel to fire their bombs at? Since I point it out all the time, I'm sure you must know by now that the militants are using civilians as 'human shields'. Warfare has always had people knocking down bridges. It's a simple tactic to hold back the enemy and stop their supplies. My grandfather served in WW2 as an engineer for patton, and dealt specifically with building bridges that got knocked out, and clearing trees that were cut down in the road to block them. The only difference there, is that usually the Germans would be right next to the bridges setting up charges for a while, so civilians knew better than to be near it. That would be possible to do, but then you would whine about Israel invading Lebanon, so its a lose-lose situation.

Israel destroying Lebanon's infrastructure would be like the United States turning back Canada's clock by 20 years by destroying their powerplants and airports, and killing 300+ civilians, because of terrorists who fired rockets across the US/Canada border (which caused a total damage of a couple dozen deaths, and some shattered glass over the timespan of weeks/months)

This is a stupid comparison for 2 reasons.

1) We get along with Canada, obviously if we got a random attack from them we would know their government/people were not to blame. and would cooperate in dealing with the threat.

2) If we were getting attacked by a terrorist group from within Canadas borders for the past 6 years, you're god damn right we would send them back to the stone age, and guess what else? The attacks would stop

We actually know the opposite -- The less you watch Fox News the closer to the truth you will find yourself.

thats why I wrote that part as a joke

[Squeezer]

Izor, 404's statement is right on. The reason for all this friction in the middle east is this: Israel. We created the problem by sticking a country in the middle of a bunch of other countries and telling them to deal with it. If we didn't feel sorry for the Holocaust Jews and give them "The Promise Land" described in every religion, this conflict wouldn't even exist. Then, if we wouldn't have further inflamed things by giving Israel every piece of military equipment they could ever want, then they would be on the same plain as the rest of the middle east, and would be fighting a fair fight. Instead, we support them in every way, and piss off the rest of the middle east. Countries like Lebanon and Iran can't directly attack the US, because we're too far away, and far too big of a bully to be starting shit with. So, what do they do instead? They attack America's lapdog. If you can't get Scott Farcus, then attack Grover Dill instead (guess what movie that's from).

[Chao.]

Izor, 404's statement is right on. The reason for all this friction in the middle east is this: Israel. We created the problem by sticking a country in the middle of a bunch of other countries and telling them to deal with it. If we didn't feel sorry for the Holocaust Jews and give them "The Promise Land" described in every religion, this conflict wouldn't even exist. Then, if we wouldn't have further inflamed things by giving Israel every piece of military equipment they could ever want, then they would be on the same plain as the rest of the middle east, and would be fighting a fair fight. Instead, we support them in every way, and piss off the rest of the middle east. Countries like Lebanon and Iran can't directly attack the US, because we're too far away, and far too big of a bully to be starting shit with. So, what do they do instead? They attack America's lapdog. If you can't get Scott Farcus, then attack Grover Dill instead (guess what movie that's from).

I agree. In fact,

I'm just trying to let you know the reasons for those attacks over the years. (I realize not every single one was a religious bout, but the majority were) The UN/US/whoever even allowing a country to be formed for the sole purpose of protecting Jewish people is wrong to me anyway. Yes, I feel sympathy for those in the holocaust. Yes, I know how wrongly these people have been treated by others in history. That doesn't make it ok to pick out a spot on the map, and, as the victors of WW2, tell them it's for those of the Jewish faith. It would be a bit shortsighted (like the idea of Israel itself) to believe no retaliations would come.

[gran guerrero]

actually 404, India and Pakistan is not peaceful neighbors, they been fighting quite alot. Just not as extensive as Israel-Palestin/Lebanon.

[Izor]

Great points of view. You are attempting to justify terrorist attacks on Israel, based on the fact that it was wrong for us to create the nation of Israel in the first place. Supposedly your stance here is to take the jews in Israel and move them to somewhere that has no political claim..like Antarctica? That surely would make up for our actions after WW2!

One thing I dont get though: you're willing to go back 60 years or so to place the blame on the US but when I say that civilians dying is something that has happened in warfare all throughout history, that point doesnt matter, even though Israel clearly isnt aiming rockets with intent to kill as many civ's as possible.

[Chao.]

Great points of view. You are attempting to justify terrorist attacks on Israel, based on the fact that it was wrong for us to create the nation of Israel in the first place. Supposedly your stance here is to take the jews in Israel and move them to somewhere that has no political claim..like Antarctica? That surely would make up for our actions after WW2!

Who is to say that the jewish people in any way deserved a nation for their protection after WW2? I don't mean to sound insensitive, but Israel was not a "must" in any way.

[Troll King]

NO THEY ARE NOT justifying the attacks. Stop taking twenty leaps of logic on an argument and assuming that, just because they don't agree with yours, they must be siding with people you're against. Stop arguing against what you think they're saying and actually LOOK AT WHAT THEY'RE SAYING.

[Hakaku]

Hakaku,
"My parents have been to Israel, I've studied World Religions & Cultures, so don't tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about".

Totally different thing, to live your life in Israel and adept to the culture and living the belief. Its basically the same as saying, I've studied cars and how to drive a car. But yet I have never driven one single car. Sure, I know about the cars and how to handle em alright. Sorry for ranting, but I've been soo irritated over several things these past weeks. Two different things to have knowledge of something, but lacking the experience to give the whole. So basically to understand this situation, you'd need to be at many places at the same time. In EU, FN, USA etc etc, being a citizen of lebanon, a soldier of lebanon, a citizen of Israel, soldier of Israel, etc etc. You get my point, I hope you do, since you are smart boy.

Of course, you can listen and read media, believing the media that it is 100% true what they say, thinking that they know the fullview of the whole situation.

I know I don't live in Israel, and I know that that was not completely relevant the rest of the thread. But when someone says "how people see things, and write things, that dont even know." You can't tell me I don't know, I may not know 100% of Israel's side, but neither do I know 100% of Hezbollah's side. Henceforth, I don't emphasize on either political groups. When you do live in a country, you tend to take your country's side, since it's where you live, I can't blame FarScape for feeling a lot for Israel. But if the world sides with Israel and says that there's a humanitarian crisis in Lebanon (meanwhile Hezbollah still hasn't lost support of power) but does nothing, it's nature to protect the innocent. So all I'm trying to do is to make points more clear, by defending innapropriate claims such as linking al-Qaeda to Hezbollah.

Neither do I listen to the media, I just quote it to support my points (or else I'll just sound stupid).

[Izor]

NO THEY ARE NOT justifying the attacks. Stop taking twenty leaps of logic on an argument and assuming that, just because they don't agree with yours, they must be siding with people you're against. Stop arguing against what you think they're saying and actually LOOK AT WHAT THEY'RE SAYING.

Sure they are. If you have come to the conclusion that that land is rightfully the arabs', then you logically conclude that they have the right to defend it. There is no 'jump' there.

But since you want me to look at what they're saying and go about it that way, I will.

The reason for all this friction in the middle east is this: Israel. <unimportant rant>

Here, we have an asshole blaming Israel for themselves being attacked by Hezbollah.

I agree. <quotes his own unimportant rant from page 1>

Here, we have an asshole agreeing with him.

I dont see any way you can take these statements other than "It's Israels own fault for being there when they dont belong" but please TK do enlighten me

And Hakaku, just stop posting you're too ez.

So all I'm trying to do is to make points more clear, by defending innapropriate claims such as linking al-Qaeda to Hezbollah.

Neither do I listen to the media

How would you know that al-Qaeda is not linked to Hezbollah, without (key word) listening to many news stories about the two groups, and forming your opinion from them? Are you a part of either organization so you have inside information?

[genocidal]

Leaps and bounds.

[genocidal]

Black and white.

[Hakaku]

lol Izor, I try not to prejudgement facts. So when someone brings up the fact that e.g. Hezbollah and al-Qaeda are linked, or that the Japan-US war was the same as this, I just use random thoughts+word of mouth stuff and then look it up to support and correct things I say. I don't watch media and then come here to rant about it (unless it really brings up a point).

[Troll King]

Saying that the way Israel was created caused problems is not justification for terrorist attacks. It means he understands why they're upset but that doesn't mean that he thinks they should commit terrorist activities. For example, I can understand why someone would be upset that his wife cheated on him with the mailman, but that doesn't mean I'd condone him if killed the two of them over it. You aren't even looking at Squeezer's post in context. He's not saying that the Israeli's are the sole cause; he's saying that the way that Israel was set up was the issue.

[RATTY...]

Izor is just an ignorant fat little guy who has nothing left in life than going into the military.

That's why he supports Israeli, if war didn't exist, then dumb people like izor who can't study and has no direction in life would have nothing to do in life.

You were in the military? Thats cool I guess, I just dont know many military people that share your views. Also talk to me in 6 months after I'm done boot camp, ty.

6 months? No wonder the american military is so horrible. Most of your casualities are from friendly fire, from your own people. It's not the other side that kills you the most, it's your own dumb people. My older cousins said that the american soldiers were dumb, I guess it's true if they let people like Izor in.

I'm going the 14th August into the military, I got into the "hunter infantry" (jegerinfanteriet). The hardest battalion, only place who qualifies to "fallskjermjegere" Norway's elite troops if you're good enough.

12 months, then maybe down Afghanistan or Kosovo, Sudan/Dafur/etc is too dangerous. I'm gonna shoot dirty americans like you down there and call it friendly fire. Good luck if you end up there

And then back to study.

[Kolar]

this is getting a little out of control. Beyond all the racism the QS kids are bringing up and others trying to find the blame or fault in either side I think the larger issue here is that neither Lebanon, Hezbollah and and Israel (plus most of the West) ALL do not want to work with the UN or other allies to come to a cease fire. Lebanon for supporting Hezbollah, Hezbollah for not disbaning and being a puppet to Iran, Israel for not working with the UN and bombing questionable targets, the US Admin. and Harper for believing anything good can come from this conflict.
No one group or Government is innocent here and no one has more of a right to exist or a more of a right to own the land. All of that is moot to the peace process.