Bush Admits We Aren't Winning Iraq War

[Xog]

When I finally get deployed to Iraq and I return, I am going to literally hunt that motherfucker down and torture him.

[Kolar]

You're not going to convince people here Eph that this war was entered into properly, that Bush and the neoconservative plan had nothing to do with why we're there and that reconstruction of Iraq is anything but a farce. Something had to change before the Americans invaded but world consensus, maybe even of your Western allies, should have been taken into consideration before moving to invade. Bush has done more to divide his traditional allies in North America and Europe, more to divide his own nation by rushing to push the military option. You and I know it would have come to that regardless of anything else going on but by rushing it and jumping over the UN he has made a fucking bad situation worse.

You can't sugar coat the civil war going on there and attempting to do so is only an attempt to manipulate the truth on the ground, while the media will always cover the negative happenings first, if you have 1,000 people dying a month from car bombings alone what the fuck would it take to admit that the country is slipping out of control, that things are not getting better? You have had over a million people leave the country, we're empowering the Shia militias by supporting the Iraqi military and we have no plans, nothing but political posturing and planning from the Administration until 2007, maybe until the Democrats take over in 08.

[Lizard Fuel]

I think you'll be hard pressed to support that "dirtbag" stance. Regardless of what you think of the war, the fact that they are putting their lives on the line in your country's name means they deserve more than a pithy statement made with little to no statistical backing.

Statement made by little or no statistical backing eh? How much more proof do I need? I work side by side with hundreds of them? Ive been to war and back twice with them? In fact, I have 3 soldiers I am responsible for and 3 of them are dirtbags that will someday hold the rank I currently have because the army wont have anything better to put in the position. Its merely my opinion, I made it clear that this was not a stereotyping of ALL soldiers.

Xog, who is this "motherfucker" you plan on hunting and torturing?

[Pummel]

[Troll King]

Statement made by little or no statistical backing eh? How much more proof do I need? I work side by side with hundreds of them? Ive been to war and back twice with them? In fact, I have 3 soldiers I am responsible for and 3 of them are dirtbags that will someday hold the rank I currently have because the army wont have anything better to put in the position. Its merely my opinion, I made it clear that this was not a stereotyping of ALL soldiers.

Xog, who is this "motherfucker" you plan on hunting and torturing?

Fine. You're not stereotyping all soldiers, just a majority of them. In that case, I'll just say that you're not a complete ass; you're only mostly an ass.

[Lizard Fuel]

well thats fine. You are allowed your opinion just as I am. Just remember you wouldnt have that right if It wasnt for me and those that paved the way before me. So your welcome

[Troll King]

Yes, clearly, between the two of us, I'm the one who doesn't sound thankful for those men and women who you consider to be "mostly" dirtbags.

[Ephemeral]

You're not going to convince people here Eph that this war was entered into properly, that Bush and the neoconservative plan had nothing to do with why we're there and that reconstruction of Iraq is anything but a farce. Something had to change before the Americans invaded but world consensus, maybe even of your Western allies, should have been taken into consideration before moving to invade. Bush has done more to divide his traditional allies in North America and Europe, more to divide his own nation by rushing to push the military option. You and I know it would have come to that regardless of anything else going on but by rushing it and jumping over the UN he has made a fucking bad situation worse.

You can't sugar coat the civil war going on there and attempting to do so is only an attempt to manipulate the truth on the ground, while the media will always cover the negative happenings first, if you have 1,000 people dying a month from car bombings alone what the fuck would it take to admit that the country is slipping out of control, that things are not getting better? You have had over a million people leave the country, we're empowering the Shia militias by supporting the Iraqi military and we have no plans, nothing but political posturing and planning from the Administration until 2007, maybe until the Democrats take over in 08.

I am not trying to change anyone's mind, I have opinions and like to run mouth. I run my mouth because I often learn that way, challenging (read as arguing with) people who have views much different than my own. A good debate, for me, is a great thing.

Yes I think you are right, it is true that having a strong dictator running a country brings more order than a country struggling with split parties fighting for empowerment.

I understand your point about the current administration but am leary of the "maybe until the Democrats take over in 08". Am I missing something? I have not heard ANY idea/solutions from the Democrats regarding the war. I see few ideas in this thread. I have heard them talk about 'change', but I have not seem anything that looks like a plan. If you have the time, please point/link me to any plans/ideas/solutions that you have seen.

[Kolar]

I understand your point about the current administration but am leary of the "maybe until the Democrats take over in 08". Am I missing something? I have not heard ANY idea/solutions from the Democrats regarding the war. I see few ideas in this thread. I have heard them talk about 'change', but I have not seem anything that looks like a plan. If you have the time, please point/link me to any plans/ideas/solutions that you have seen.

They're no better on putting a time table or any type of plan out there. I am worried that Bush may not be listening to anyone, even in his own circles about changing their policies and tactics in the Middle East. So that up to and beyond the 2008 election we will still be dealing with chaos in Iraq and possibly dealing with another American instigated conflict with Iran or Syria. Hopefully in 2008 the American people will finally vote out these neoconservatives so we won't have another Iraq.

[DoTheFandango]

I don't think anyone's disrespecting the army as much as they are disrespecting you. The armed forces are the bravest men in the world. Lord knows I would never volunteer myself for that. But the thing is, ignorance is bad, no matter what your occupation is. I don't know who was right about Iraq, but you gotta admit that this war sucks from any end of the spectrum.

[gran guerrero]

there is a war on terror, but there was never war declared on iraq, so there is no iraq war, it's just a iraq conflict.

and mind you i'm not for it seeing as i'm muslim and i fear for iran being next on USA's hit list.

being that im iranian

[Squeezer]

You wanna end the war? Push a bill through the senate that reinstates the draft for ALL men and women between the ages of 18-22. Then watch as all these senators panic when their kids get called to active duty.

I can't remember the exact stat, but in WWII, more than half of the eligable sons of Senators and Congressman served their country. Now, of all the eligable sons and daughters of congress, only one serves. ONE!

They have no problem with sending other people's children to die, but when it comes time to give to the cause....Sorry, my son can't go fight.

[FarScape]

Do a little check on who put and supported Saddam in power in the 1st place...can you guess? The U.S.A.! Who helped place the Shah of Iran in Power prior to the Islamic Revolution? the U.S.A., Who put Noriega in power as dictator...again...the U.S.A. The U.S. has had its hands involved in everything prior to present when it comes to the crap in the Middle East and South America.

Now the U.S. wants to give monies to Fattah in order to undermine Hamas. I am not one who is in favor of Hamas as I am sure your not either Farscape, but what will lead to another round of mistrust towards the U.S. is that we supported the free democratic elections of the Palestinians, yet as soon as Hamas won, the U.S. has a problem with this. The U.S. wants a new election and many more if the government that is not to the U.S.'s liking is not the winner. I guess that is what a real free election and democracy and freedoms for peoples are about?

The U.S. also had intention of invading Iraq long before 9/11, Do yourself a favor and read up on the declassified documents relating to this. 9/11 was a great excuse to rally the peoples of the nation to invade Iraq. The U.S. was blinded by the actions of its own government.

Post-Saddam Iraq:
The War Game

"Desert Crossing" 1999 Assumed
400,000 Troops and Still a Mess

National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 207

Introduced by Roger Strother

Posted - November 4, 2006

The U.S. has been very hypocritical in almost every stance, dating back to the treaties with the American Indians. This government is far from being a government for the people and by the people. It's a nice facade and nothing more when you look at the amount of negative crap that has transpired in covert actions against the peoples of the world and it's own nations peoples.

well, almost every war in the world was supported by the big nations (russia, usa, france and UK).

my own country supported parties who became terrorist groups, just to take out another parties who were in place.
the world sucks, dont blame USA for it.

and im not questioning if USA invading iraq was good or not, im just pointing the fact that saddam hussen was shit dictator anyway, and everyone should be happy about the fact he is off. the iraqies are happy... tho the chaos really ruined their hopes

[Subjugation]

Just to get a little bit back on topic, Mr Bush has now said he wants to send in more troops. Right after his "fact finding" committee of Generals told him to gtfo of Iraq and there was no "winning" option left.

Ok, so back when we needed more troops he wouldn't send them because he didn't want to look bad, and now that it's too late, he's going to give them the troops they asked for 2 years ago?

It's so frustrating that I actually am amused by this bullshit.

[Zerzera]

if It wasnt for me and those that paved the way before me. So your welcome

Didn't you just say you chickened out of Iraq because it was a shit hole? "I am a soldier, but if I don't like a war, I leave"

Your bullshit about shooting civilians because they don't support your country is totally retarded. You invade a country and expect the people to bend over for you? You should try shooting them all, see how nasty it can get.
Now you tell us that your army is full of dirtbags, why would a civilian pick the side of those retards then? And more important, how could these people be the judge of someone's life?

Your attitude alone already aggravates me, imagine you invading my village. I would stab you the moment you turn your back at me.