Literature

[CrvenBan]

I can see why they laughed at you.

I can see why you would fit well into that class with other pretentious look-down-on-people bookmoths.

I had done that paper 4 years ago, so I don't have the details, which is why I gave Face an example of how he could aproach things, that's why I said "random shit like that"...which is also why you, had you been able to think outside of that little box of yours for once, would pick up on it and not try to prove me wrong, since 1. I already knew it was wrong, and 2. even the "real" interpretation of the work would be wrong, but that is the whole point of it: you're trying to have fun in a course you couldn't care less about.


Face, read writer's biography, try to find some events in his life that would allow you interpret the book in the ways other than the "standard" ones. And then watch people trying to prove to you that you're an idiot :grin:




Edit: Gen, I don't know if I should tell you to stop being so literal about stuff people say, or to stop being so anal about interpretations. Which one makes a better pun ?

[Zerzera]

I agree with Crven. Literature is all about interpretation and the freedom of doing so, and if you just want to have fun with it, go for it.

In school I had to reach our own Dutch literature, which I totally detest. But I understood that it was mandatory, and I had a great time voicing my opinion on Dutch literature.
You can probably do the same with Beowulf.

[Facetious]

Dropping in to say that Beowulf is great

Oh, it's great, okay. Thanks.

Unless I could take John Grisham 101, I really can't see myself liking any literature class. I just hate anything where the point of it is the language, not the plot. I find the classes themselves somewhat interesting, as the teacher pointing out certain passages that are important and how they relate to the time period or whatever is of some interest to me. However, just reading page after page of flowery language is completely meaningless to me. The fact that it's translated is irrelevant, really.

I could try to make interesting points but that would obviously take more effort just to make my grade in the class worse. I've never found a liberal arts professor that wants anything but regurgitation of what they say.

[genocidal]

same diff. I did read Beowulf in old english. It sucked. I had to memorize the first 15 lines in old english...fucking gay. Actually, now that I think about it, I think it was full of endnotes and footnotes saying what the text actually meant.

But yeah, it was a real strain to read them both.

So you can read this?

Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,

[Vykromond]

The fact that it's translated is irrelevant, really.

Actually translations, even in closely related languages such as Old English and SAE, are of paramount importance- try reading two very different translations of the same book and you'll see.

Have you tried the Heaney translation of Beowulf? I think it's the one I encountered first and still the 'best' (at least in terms of down-to-earthness) for what you're looking for. Here's the bit I think you were complaining about, in Heaney's text:

"When he heard about Grendel, Hygelac's thane
was on home ground, over in Geatland.
There was no one else like him alive.
In his day, he was the mightiest man on earth,
high-born and powerful. He ordered a boat
that would ply the waves. He announced his plan:
to sail the swan's road and search out that king,
the famous prince who needed defenders. "

Here on the other hand is Charles W. Kennedy's translation:

"Then tales of the terrible deeds of Grendel
Reached Hygelac's thane in his home with the Geats;
Of living strong men he was the strongest,
Fearless and gallant and great of heart.
He gave command for a goodly vessel
Fitted and furnished; he fain would sail
Over the swan-road to seek the king
Who suffered so sorely for need of men.
And his bold retainers found little to blame
In his daring venture, dear though he was;
They viewed the omens, and urged him on."

Do you see how the use of translation in the second could alienate a modern reader and make them think "lal i h8 dis stufi crap" whereas the first is crisp, clean, and modern-sounding?

(Quotes from http://www.beowulftranslations.net/)

[Galleleo]

I seem to have thrown all my High School stuff away, but yes I did have to read Beowulf (not the whole book) in Old English and also others old and middle English stuff. We had an English teacher who made his own books for our class and wasn't your average English teacher. He taught us English too, not American. We got a whole lot of history stuff the first year, from old English to middle English to modern English.

Now you can believe this, or you can chose not to, honestly, I don't care.

[genocidal]

I seem to have thrown all my High School stuff away, but yes I did have to read Beowulf (not the whole book) in Old English and also others old and middle English stuff. We had an English teacher who made his own books for our class and wasn't your average English teacher. He taught us English too, not American. We got a whole lot of history stuff the first year, from old English to middle English to modern English.

Now you can believe this, or you can chose not to, honestly, I don't care.

Okay, I don't believe either you or Squeezer read it in Old English at all. Just look at what I posted. To say you used endnotes liberally is even an understatement. It's like saying I don't speak Chinese but I read The Art of War fairly easily because it had endnotes.

EDIT: Okay, if you can read Old English with endnotes then you'll be able to get at least 3/4 of this without the use of endnotes. Please translate:

ofer ealde riht, ecean dryhtne,
bitre gebulge. Breost innan weoll
þeostrum geþoncum, swa him geþywe ne wæs.
Hæfde ligdraca leoda fæsten,
ealond utan, eorðweard ðone

[CrvenBan]

No fucking way either of those 2 read it in Old English without first learning it - it's totally different language

[Galleleo]

O
ofer ealde riht, ecean dryhtne,
bitre gebulge. Breost innan weoll
þeostrum geþoncum, swa him geþywe ne wæs.
Hæfde ligdraca leoda fæsten,
ealond utan, eorðweard ðone

Should be something along the lines off: (though I could be wrong)

Above old right, eternal ......
broken ....., his breast swell
.... ....., not known to him
.... firedragon (or fiery dragon), too fast (for) people
destroyed with fire, ..... ......

It has been a couple of years, and I doubt this is really correct.

[DoTheFandango]

riht means right as in a lawful right, not as in a turn right. Basically, you just outted yourself using a dictionary.

Geno, I had a side-by-side translation for my Humanities class. We hardly ever used the old-english text, as it is basically a Latin + German + Anglo-Saxon mess of consonants and diphthongs.

From what I remember from the Old English text, this is my translation:

The lord had broken the old law, and his breast had him… do something dark?

Old english definitely doesn't stay with you like Latin.

[Galleleo]

I know that, and where does Above old right imply to turn right? Old right would imply a right towards lawful right, or if you will rights of men/women. Not a right as in turn right, or at your right hand.

[genocidal]

Excellent

Above old right, eternal ......
broken ....., his breast swell
.... ....., not known to him
.... firedragon (or fiery dragon), too fast (for) people
destroyed with fire, ..... ......

against ancient law eternal Lord
had bitterly angered; inside his breast welled
with thoughts of gloom, such was not usual for him.
The fire-drake had the fortress of the people,

Nice try bud, but even with the aid of an Old English translator, which I know you used, it's more difficult than you thought. You were probably thinking of Middle English (which still requires some use of translator/endnotes) or even Victorian English (like Shakespeare). Old English is a different language.

EDIT: I'm too mean.

[Facetious]

Actually translations, even in closely related languages such as Old English and SAE, are of paramount importance- try reading two very different translations of the same book and you'll see.

Have you tried the Heaney translation of Beowulf? I think it's the one I encountered first and still the 'best' (at least in terms of down-to-earthness) for what you're looking for. Here's the bit I think you were complaining about, in Heaney's text:

"When he heard about Grendel, Hygelac's thane
was on home ground, over in Geatland.
There was no one else like him alive.
In his day, he was the mightiest man on earth,
high-born and powerful. He ordered a boat
that would ply the waves. He announced his plan:
to sail the swan's road and search out that king,
the famous prince who needed defenders. "

Here on the other hand is Charles W. Kennedy's translation:

"Then tales of the terrible deeds of Grendel
Reached Hygelac's thane in his home with the Geats;
Of living strong men he was the strongest,
Fearless and gallant and great of heart.
He gave command for a goodly vessel
Fitted and furnished; he fain would sail
Over the swan-road to seek the king
Who suffered so sorely for need of men.
And his bold retainers found little to blame
In his daring venture, dear though he was;
They viewed the omens, and urged him on."

Do you see how the use of translation in the second could alienate a modern reader and make them think "lal i h8 dis stufi crap" whereas the first is crisp, clean, and modern-sounding?

(Quotes from http://www.beowulftranslations.net/)

Yeah I was reading the Heaney version. My point was more that I hate even the Heaney version so much that even a worse version could barely be any less enjoyable. Of course, that was before I read that second version. That is, in fact, much worse.

[DoTheFandango]

I found the copy we used in Humanities on Amazon, and I think you should all check it out:

Here.

It's alot like those shitty "translated" Shakespeare books with "Shakespearean" English on one side and an abomination of a "Modern English translation" on another -- except this one has a legitimately difficult to decipher language on one side, and has a scholarly text on another.

[404 Not Found]

Does this literature class dwell on just the act of reading Beowulf? Or does the class discuss the significant reason as to why this piece of literature marks a historic point of literary writings?

If the class is solely geared towards just reading the story, due to it being a part of English Literature, then the teacher is doing an injustice to why this story has such importance.

I read this in High School Senior year in an elective English Lit. Class. We read it twice...once through w/o having a clue as to what the hell we just read & then we re-read it again after discussing the historical nature and significance of why this was a starting point of English Literature.

Boring as it was...it made sense after the fact...not that I have had any use for this other than a required read for a class. It did have one impact on me years ago and that was seeing live bands play at a place called "Grendel's Lair"...always reminded me of reading the story.