A Soldiers Christmas

[Noah]

All these soldiers (except Finnish and I believe Norwegian?) choose to be a soldier.

This is correct, we are considering to drop it now, and fewer and fewer are taken in without them accepting it. I for one support it, being 1 year in the army teaches you alot.

[Ayano]

And Ayano, let me point out again, that the only reason the Taliban exists in the ways it does now, and the only reason Saddam was in power in the first place was because of the US and their funding and training and weapons delivery and what not.

My god, I threw in the Taliban as an example, there is a multitude of different things I could have put in their place such as 'militant' or the popular 'insurgent'.

The Taliban exists because of the Russian invasion on Afganistan, and would have prolonged with or without support as they were religiously, not necessarily politically motivated at that point. The funding is ludicris, but it only expediated their progress and the overall goal to 'contain communism'.

If the Taliban didn't exist, tension in the middle east would still have generated another strongly fundamentalist cult.

[Hero*]

We all know Canada won WWII, fuck faces.

[Fluffz]

The administration that makes this decision is to blame, not the servicemen that answer the call.

and i thought your crusade was to spread freedome and free will, my bad.

[Ayano]

and i thought your crusade was to spread freedome and free will, my bad.

Your press brainwashes you, and here I thought you were capable of cognitive logistics. Did they get an interview with the same guy who cried freedom fries?

[Geio]

I don't agree with fighting for what the politicians tell you to fight for. I've been in the army, I'm a medic, and I'd happily go out for my country if it was something I personally believed had to be done for my country. On the flip side of that I wouldn't join in on an attack on Sweeden because our leader said so.

You obvously shouldn't belong in the Army then, You know as well as I know then that no matter what "YOU" want to do, if that call comes through the wire, and explains that you and your unit have to be in Sweedish lands by 0600, ready, and armed. You are telling me that you would disobey a direct order coming from your commander and chief? In our country we call that 'treason' I think. Im not sure. Some poeple in my Unit said that in Iraq. Our Generals and what not were kindly able to give the poor guy a discharge with 'Failure To Adapt'. The guy just plain out said he couldn't shoot another man for reason's in which the goverment wanted them shot. I understand his opinon. Nor does this exclude that fact he shouldn't have enlisted knowing that someday he could be out in that very same spot of interest.

[Zerzera]

Who is to blame, the armies that attacked under the assumtion that they were attacked or the planners that falsified the information? Also take note that this is Nazi germany, and this was an age where Information wasn't as freely exchanged as it is now.

A human being is responsible for his own actions.
You are saying that a soldier's job is to fight for his nation. So that means all his actions are justified?

I should respect the German soldier in the second world war -he fought for his country!-, or the suicide bomber who kills himself for his nation and beliefs. But I can't.

You think you respect soldiers, but you don't, you only respect your own soldiers. You respect them because they happen to fight for the same values as you.

You are being nothing but a nationalist, who feels no remorse for people with different values.

[Geio]

And Ayano, let me point out again, that the only reason the Taliban exists in the ways it does now, and the only reason Saddam was in power in the first place was because of the US and their funding and training and weapons delivery and what not.

Gall, Sorry to burst your information bubble that's not the only reason. It's like cartoons, or movies. They're will always be a good vs. bad. It's proven, If the taliban wasn't there, it would be some other form of terrorists.

[Ayano]

...
You are being nothing but a nationalist, who feels no remorse for people with different values.

You are far gone, I end this argument as you heartless. I'm proud of my nation yes, but I don't support everything it does or commits its resources to. I'm about as proud as you are pround of being Scandinavian? or finnish, or english, or french. You feel no sense of responsibility? I fear for any relationship you get into if any.

Edit: Am I proud of the atrocious acts the military have done? No, but for the dutiful soldier, they deserve their countrymen's respect

[Kolar]

Kolar, if you respect the average Joe more/equal than you respect someone who is risks his or her life to serve your city, your province, your country; then you sir represent the self centered and undignified. They spit on the firemen under the guise that they're lazy; speak vulgar of the police that are always so 'corrupt'. They have no sense of other aside from what immediately affects their life, everything else is an entity beyond themselves. They are a part of nothing beyond these lines and care only for what they feel improves their situation.

Actually Ayano I don't order the value of life by what a person's occupation is. I commend anyone wanting to serve their country but with the current situation with NATO and the current Administration south of the boarder again showing the kind of respect and admiration for the Canadian or US Military like that in WW2 is not such a good idea for everyone right now.

I have no problem with the soldiers on the ground and do not want to see any harm come to them, but at the same time they can be used and abused by those in power and just the same the military can become its own problem given enough space.

Earlier I said the political situation can not be separated from that of the soldiers doing their duty. The Neoconservatives have fused the well being and survival of the soldiers with that of the political situation. "Support the Troops" basically means support the political and military mission, and if you don't support the mission then you hate the soldiers protecting your family, your land and your life. So it's a mess of course and the fuckwits in power love brewing this kind of animosity in the political arenas because it gives at bare minimum some political capital to work with. I don't think we need to be trapped into that kind of world, I think in 2007 we can do better.

[Fluffz]

http://faithjustice.wordpress.com/20...or-and-martyr/

[Ayano]

http://faithjustice.wordpress.com/20...or-and-martyr/

If you're trying to generalize, you phail.

[Zerzera]

You are far gone, I end this argument as you heartless. I'm proud of my nation yes, but I don't support everything it does or commits its resources to. I'm about as proud as you are pround of being Scandinavian? or finnish, or english, or french. You feel no sense of responsibility? I fear for any relationship you get into if any.

Edit: Am I proud of the atrocious acts the military have done? No, but for the dutiful soldier, they deserve their countrymen's respect

I never said I wouldn't allow you to respect your soldiers. They are very likely to fight for your country benefits.
I just stated I can't, and tried to explain why. You said you hope I would fucking die.
I noticed you got emotionally involved in this discussion, and there's nothing wrong with protecting your values, but there is no wrong or right in this matter. It's just a matter of what you think is right and what is not.

I might be delusional to think that a world without soldiers would be a world without war, but you are delusional to think that supporting soldiers will make the world any better, especially when their superiors are using them for wrong causes.

[Noah]

You obvously shouldn't belong in the Army then, You know as well as I know then that no matter what "YOU" want to do, if that call comes through the wire, and explains that you and your unit have to be in Sweedish lands by 0600, ready, and armed. You are telling me that you would disobey a direct order coming from your commander and chief? In our country we call that 'treason' I think. Im not sure. Some poeple in my Unit said that in Iraq. Our Generals and what not were kindly able to give the poor guy a discharge with 'Failure To Adapt'. The guy just plain out said he couldn't shoot another man for reason's in which the goverment wanted them shot. I understand his opinon. Nor does this exclude that fact he shouldn't have enlisted knowing that someday he could be out in that very same spot of interest.

We have conscription here, we have no choice. I'd choose not to if it were up to me, but I still had an awesome experience. If I had chosen to be there, I would also accept that such a thing could happen. There's a difference there. I hope that atleast you and I can talk in a reasonable manner.

[Geio]

Yeah man thats totally fine. Im a resonable man. I'm also open to many other views other than mine. I like to discuss matters like these. It is what interest's me. You can pm me in game if you would ever like to go into detail about things, Ill be gladly to explain my expereinces and listen to yours aswel. Cheers