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USA court states torture is expected, prisoners are not 'persons'

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  • USA court states torture is expected, prisoners are not 'persons'


    In Voiding Suit, Appellate Court Says Torture Is To Be Expected
    By Greg Gordon
    McClatchy Newspapers


    Washington - A federal appeals court Friday threw out a suit by four British Muslims who allege that they were tortured and subjected to religious abuse in the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, a ruling that exonerated 11 present and former senior Pentagon officials.

    It appeared to be the first time that a federal appellate court has ruled on the legality of the harsh interrogation tactics that U.S. intelligence officers and military personnel have used on suspected terrorists held outside the United States since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

    The detainees allege that they were held in stress positions, interrogated for sessions lasting 24 hours, intimidated with dogs and isolated in darkness and that their beards were shaved.

    The three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit ruled that the detainees captured in Afghanistan aren't recognized as "persons" under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act because they were aliens held outside the United States. The Religious Freedom Act prohibits the government from "substantially burdening a person's religion."

    The court rejected other claims on the grounds that then-Attorney General John Ashcroft had certified that the military officials were acting within the scope of their jobs when they authorized the tactics, and that such tactics were "foreseeable."

    "It was foreseeable that conduct that would ordinarily be indisputably ..seriously criminal' would be implemented by military officials responsible for detaining and interrogating suspected enemy combatants," Circuit Judge Karen LeCraft Henderson wrote in the court's main opinion.

    Judge Janice Rogers Brown dissented with parts of the opinion, saying that "it leaves us with the unfortunate and quite dubious distinction of being the only court to declare those held at Guantanamo are not ..person(s).'

    '..This is a most regrettable holding in a case where plaintiffs have alleged high-level U.S. government officials treated them as less than human," Brown wrote.

    After being held for more than two years, the four men were repatriated to Britain in 2004, where they were freed within 24 hours without facing criminal charges, said Washington lawyer Eric Lewis, who represented them along with the New York-based Center for Constitutional Rights.

    Three of the men - Shafiq Rasul, Asif Iqbal and Rhuhel Ahmed - say they traveled to Afghanistan from Pakistan in October 2001 to provide humanitarian relief but were seized by an Uzbek warlord in northern Afghanistan the next month and sold to U.S. troops for bounty money. The three said they were unarmed and never engaged in combat against the United States.

    The fourth, Jamal al Harith, said he'd planned to attend a religious retreat in Pakistan in October 2001 but was ordered to leave the country because of animosity toward Britons. When he tried to drive a truck home via Iran and Turkey, he says, his truck was hijacked at gunpoint and he was handed over to the Taliban, who jailed him and accused him of being a spy. When the Taliban fell after the U.S.-led invasion, he was detained and transported to Guantanamo.

    The detainees filed suit in October 2004 against former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, former Air Force Gen. Richard Myers, who was the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the time, and nine other senior military officers. They allege that the Pentagon officials violated the Alien Tort Statute, the Geneva Conventions, the religious freedom law and the Constitution with their harsh treatment.

    In upholding a lower court's rejection of all the claims but those under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, the circuit court said that the interrogation tactics, which Rumsfeld first authorized in 2002, were "incidental" to the duties of those who'd been sued.

    "It is an awful day for the rule of law and common decency," said Lewis, the detainees' attorney, "when a court finds that torture is all in a day's work for the secretary of defense and senior generals. . . . I think the executive is trying to create a black hole so there is no accountability for torture and religious abuse."

    Lewis said his clients intended to ask the Supreme Court to overturn the ruling.
    a sad day in america
    Praise "Bob"

    la música

  • #2
    The way I see it, it's terrorists fighting versus other terrorists.

    Terrorists doesn't mind violating human rights, and is not above using torture.

    No surprise here.
    Da1andonly> man this youghurt only made me angry

    5:ph> n0ah will dangle from a helicopter ladder and just reduce the landscape to ashes by sweeping his beard across it

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Noah View Post
      The way I see it, it's terrorists fighting versus other terrorists.

      Terrorists doesn't mind violating human rights, and is not above using torture.

      No surprise here.
      The thing is though, the Bush administration is fighting a war against terrorism, a war against people who explicitly violate human rights. Thus there is an inherent contradiction if that same administration is seen to be using the same immoral methods they outwardly criticise and wage wars against. It's all very well to say 'oh it's just terrorists fighting terrorists' - but who's meant to hold the moral highground here? Who's meant to be the worlds super power, the gaurdian of the world?

      Yet, despite my avid support for the western democracy and fair handed constitutionalism, I feel a pang of indecision on this issue. Religious extremism coupled with 21st Century technology has allowed terrorism to pose a real threat to America and Europe, and I feel that in some cases special treatment is required (although admittedly this is a vague definition.) It comes down to the old paradox, 'Do you torture one person to attain information that could save thousands?' - the answer in my case is yes, however unconstitutional.

      But in practical terms, these guys clearly weren't terrorists and were no threat to the USA or western institutions (the contrary is actually true.) Therefore there exists a dividing line between the justifiable unconstitutional methods made in light of genuine extremism and the practical, judicial and rational processes required for truth to be obtained.

      Tough call. Being British and a supporter of human rights, I'd say that interrogation camps such as Gauntanamo Bay are too extreme and constrain liberties to an unreasonable extent. Proper, legal methods (however beaurocratic) are the only respectable alternatives.

      What one also has to consider are the cultural repercussions of openly having such camps. Is this going to send out a good message to all those Islamist fanatics? Is this going to abate the claims made by Wahhabists that the West is Anti-Muslim? Is this going to stop the countless suicide bombers? Is it going to set a good example, highlighting America's free and egalitarian political-culture? No, it's going to do the opposite, it's going to affirm these beliefs and it's going to give terrorists more political ammunition. Ironically the antithesis of what it's trying to achieve.
      Last edited by MetalHeadz; 01-14-2008, 06:06 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        yha but havent u heard of fire vs fire? jesus.
        Originally posted by turmio
        jeenyuss seemingly without reason if he didn't have clean flours in his bag.
        Originally posted by grand
        I've been afk eating an apple and watching the late night news...

        Comment


        • #5
          Total bs. BTW what was the vote with the judges... was it 3-0 or 2-1?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jeenyuss View Post
            yha but havent u heard of fire vs fire? jesus.
            i think Jesus was more of a turn the other cheek kinda guy.

            Let's combat this cliche idiom with some more! Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind! Two wrongs don't make a right! Find a penny pick it up, and all the day you'll have good luck!

            Comment


            • #7
              they should be hanging upside down, why the fuck do they get to sit down, pathetic
              DICE TWLJ/TWLB SEASON 8 CHAMP
              DICE TWLB SEASON 10 CHAMP
              DICE TWLB SEASON 11 CHAMP
              DICE TWLB SEASON 13 CHAMP
              DICE TWLJ/TWLB SEASON 15 CHAMP
              DICE TWLJ/TWLB SEASON 16 CHAMP

              1:waven> i promised myself that the only way id ever roid
              1:waven> is if im going to prison
              1:waven> no one gonna try to rape me

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by megaman89 View Post
                they should be hanging upside down, why the fuck do they get to sit down, pathetic
                LOL agreed

                Comment


                • #9
                  this is just the first step in advocating the same policies in america's own jail system
                  Praise "Bob"

                  la música

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    human rights is more for civilized countries anyway.
                    You ate some priest porridge

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bolt View Post
                      this is just the first step in advocating the same policies in america's own jail system

                      good point, or also everywhere on the streets too. tasers are now used on drunk drivers if they dont respond in enough time, on students who ask the wrong questions, on men who are deaf and ca't hear instructions so they must be hostile. All real stories. Over 200 taser deaths since June 07, according to fox news.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Zerzera View Post
                        human rights is more for civilized countries anyway.
                        i kno u r but wut am i

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Vatican Assassin View Post
                          according to fox news.
                          ff
                          Maybe God was the first suicide bomber and the Big Bang was his moment of Glory.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by genocidal View Post
                            i kno u r but wut am i
                            My remark was a bit too cynical I guess, please forgive me. I guess the judge just didn't dare to burn his fingers on this one.
                            You ate some priest porridge

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Vatican Assassin View Post
                              good point, or also everywhere on the streets too. tasers are now used on drunk drivers if they dont respond in enough time, on students who ask the wrong questions, on men who are deaf and ca't hear instructions so they must be hostile. All real stories. Over 200 taser deaths since June 07, according to fox news.
                              a friend of mine got tazered a few months ago for "assaulting a police officer." he was drunk as hell, passed out, and the police try questioning him. so he gets up in a stupor and knocks one of the cops gloves off. the officer then pulls out his tazer gun and stuns him three times. my friend is then arrested and charged with assaulting a police officer. he said all he remembers is being waken up by a tazer and begging them to stop and telling them he did nothing wrong.
                              Praise "Bob"

                              la música

                              Comment

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