itt: evolution and trolling

[Kolar]

Milosh a lot of this is no better then those claiming the Koran tells us the speed of light and other crack pot stuff.

[DoTheFandango]

pi is three

[Jeenyuss]

sometimes i thrust my hips so my flaccid dick slaps my stomach, then my taint, then my stomach, then my taint. i like the sound.

[Epinephrine]

This stuff is too hard to understand, and since I don't want to really think about it or believe what others have observed, it's just easier to say that god did it and be end with it... ah what a rosy feeling that creates.

Milosh, you are simply trying to ignore that sometimes stuff just happens, and that is the way it is.

Why is anything the way it is. Why is my desk arranged exactly the way it is? Considering the number of objects, the number of atoms involved, my desk could be arranged in any number of ways approaching infinity. But yet it is arranged this way. Why is it like this? I can't believe that it actually happened, perhaps my desk does not exist.

This is basically what you are saying. You deny that you are searching for an end point, but yet all your questions pre-suppose an endpoint.

Who cares why we are on a planet that for some reason is so good for exploration. Never mind that there could be billions of other planets we could all be on which are just as good. Never mind that there could be billions of other ways we could have developed where we would be just as well equiped. You only list the concepts and ideas that you know exist, but how about all those ideas that you do not know about? You do not know what you are missing unless you are missing it. Why do we just have an eye that can see the visible spectrum, when seeing infrared would be so useful? Why don't humans have sonar like bats when that would be really cool? There are a zillion possibilities of how things could be different, and yet things are the way they are.

None of this points to the fact that there is any sort of intelligent designer, it just shows that it is the way it is.

My desk is arranged the way it is, because... it is.

Stuff happened and is how it is, because... it is.

[milosh]

I'm seriously just not sure how to respond to you in an intellectual manner anymore, Epinephrine.

EDIT: But heck let me give it a try anyway...

You see, you are right that your desk contains many millions of atoms and an array of objects that also contain millions of atoms which are arranged into certain positions at certain locations. If you put down a stapler on your desk the probability that it will land in the exact position you set it down is probably a million to one, but every time you put it down on your desk it will still be a stapler on your desk with the same probability of being in that position as its actual location. Perhaps this probability shifts a bit because you put it behind your monitor which is harder to reach and thus less probable; it doesn't matter.

Your example of probability is a very poor one as you're using a system which occurred by design(yours). The probability that you would have placed all the items on your desk in the exact arrangement again given a second chance is indeed slim as you have stated, but it doesn't even begin to compare with the probability that if you threw all of the items at the desk(with no intention of placement) they would land in the exact arrangement. It's so improbable that it's not just unlikely; It is impossible.

Your argument presuming that we aren't designed because we don't harness all the abilities of nature is also flawed. Is it proof for the non-existence of a creator because we cannot see the entire light spectrum or because we can only hear a certain range of frequencies? Is it proof for the non-existence of a creator because we do not have wings, use sonar, breathe under water, or do any of the millions of amazing things accomplished by life we observe on this planet? This is no argument at all!

[DoTheFandango]

sometimes i thrust my hips so my flaccid dick slaps my stomach, then my taint, then my stomach, then my taint. i like the sound.

insta-sigged.

[Fluffz]

I'm seriously just not sure how to respond to you in an intellectual manner anymore, Epinephrine.

Yes, this seems to become a problem.

The probability that you would have placed all the items on your desk in the exact arrangement again given a second chance...

what second chance are you talking about? since when is there a second universe we compare this one against? If there were your point might be worth thinking about but there isnt, what you said is irrelevant and Epis point remains true.

[milosh]

what second chance are you talking about? since when is there a second universe we compare this one against? If there were your point might be worth thinking about but there isnt, what you said is irrelevant and Epis point remains true.

Sigh, simply remove those five distracting words from the statement and its logic remains.

Your example of probability is a very poor one as you're using a system which occurred by design(yours). The probability that you would have placed all the items on your desk in that exact arrangement is indeed slim as you have stated, but it doesn't even begin to compare with the probability that if you threw all of the items at the desk(with no intention of placement) they would land in the exact arrangement. It's so improbable that it's not just unlikely; It is impossible.

Fixed.

[Jerome Scuggs]

if there is a god it isn't a christian god, the notion of a universal/objective concept having a very subjective personality is, how do you say it, illogical

remember the limits of your own consciousness: humans perceive and think the way we do because we're human. concepts like "planned" and "designed" are very human terms.

purpose stems from nothing more than human thought. once again, though, "purpose" is a purely human term that stems from our sentience and consciousness. people who see a "purposeless" life without god are failing to see that the very act of living is in of itself a "purpose" if you use it to its most exacting definition.

edit: btw epinephrine wtf man, how can you say what you say and then defend government coercion

[Fluffz]

...the probability that if you threw all of the items at the desk(with no intention of placement) they would land in the exact arrangement(1). It's so improbable that it's not just unlikely; It is impossible.

So either i am god or you question the existence of my desk. Because i just threw stuff at my desk (not realy) and it landed in an exact arrangement.

(1) There is no first and second arrangement, you just admitted we talk about the first arrangement and said the logic remains.

[Jeenyuss]

man epinephrine is a doctor, worse yet an asian doctor. of course he knows everything. jesus fuck. thread die/

[Galleleo]

guys wtf? I don't read the forums for 3 days and we have a 3 page thread on religion?

[castromarx]

man epinephrine is an anime nerd, worse yet an asian anime nerd. of course he knows everything. jesus fuck. thread die/

lolz jeenyuss.

[Zerzera]

[*]How did matter get so perfectly organized?

What exactly is so perfectly organized about this matter?

[Doc Flabby]

What exactly is so perfectly organized about this matter?

The human brain is designed to find order in chaos even when there is no order. Its specifically designed to notice patterns and create associations between these patterns.

The only things that have "order" in this world are constructed by humans. "order" is a mental contruct itself, what is "ordered" to someone might look like a jumbled mess to someone else

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics which is a popular model in atomic theory is all about the lack of order in atoms. Its all about probablities.


Now why ID is a bad theory

I'm more than happy to accept your belief that a higher being created this planet and everything on it, but I cannot accept ID as a good scientic theory, its not. It fails at being a theory. The reason why it fails is simple. It answers all the questions.

A theory which does not lead to more questions and more theories is useless to the progress of science. If you can explain everything as "because the intelligent designer made it like this", it does not allow you to learn anything new about the world.

If someone said to you...
"Why does that plane fly?"
And you said "Because the designer made it that way?" you may be right,
but it wouldnt tell you anything about how that plane flys.
You would learn nothing, which is why ID is bad theory. it gives us no new knowledge.

If a decent alternative theory to evolution is developed i would be happy to consider it. The theory of evolution DOES have flaws but the ID theory does not attack those flaws. Theories dont have to be right to help extend our knowledge. Even if evolution is proved wrong it still has allowed us to learn alot about the world.

The mistake believers in ID have is they think that a theory can be "right", this just simply isnt possible. Every scientists aim is to prove a theory wrong. The purpose of science is not to be bothered if something is "right" or "wrong" but to extend our knowledge of the world.