Auto Bailout DE-NIED

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The european arms of the big 3 are great. Producing quality cars and parts and are profitable. They have been pretty much subsidising the american side. My critism and real question is why the american side of the business has not followed the profitable business model of the european side, escpially considering americans buy more cars.

They don't NEED to do the research they have all the designs and engineering in europe already they can just copy that shit over.



You're missing the real problem: the foreign cars ARE BETTER

If they REALLY had a problem with the unions chapter 11 would be their best option...It would provide them a great opertunity to renegociate all the contracts...In fact i'd start by sacking the board...However it would mean they might lose there private jets which they flew out in to ask for your money :P

Hell even in the same company they are better. Ford's european division has been subsidising american ford for years. Fords european division makes well respected cars in europe that are popular and has been profitable for a long time. Strangly in "socialist" europe the unions don't seem to prevent car companies making a profit.

The real problem the business stratey of these companies sucks. The people running them are not running them in the interests of the company...but rather themselves...

Ford has come out in saying and admitting that they have cars that get better MPG and are big sellers in the Euro and Asian markets, but that it will not be cost effective to produce the same models in the States, as they will have to re-tool the factories to be able to manufacture the engines. I do not buy that excuse from Ford and hence why they will not just copy what they have outside the states.

Next year GM will be working with a Chinese car company that will be importing cars to the U.S. from Mexico in efforts to curb taxation of which would arise if they had been made in China and imported directly. This car will sell for under $12,000.00 Lucky we have NAFTA to get around the taxes.

The foreign Auto Companies that are set-up in the States are not having the problems due to labor unions that the Big 3 have.

Financially, the big problem stems from the bonus checks, overpaid production line employee's and favoring SUV sales over cars. This past month, the gas prices had come down to a substantial lower cost at the pump, resulting in auto sales by the Big 3 again with more SUV's being purchased over a Car. I guess we can also blame the idiots that are buying these SUV's that live in urban areas of which the true use of the SUV will never be used, other than the driver causing accidents because they can't drive these monster SUV's.

One can blame the industry, the unions, the labor force and even the consumer in this case.

[Doc Flabby]

[COLOR=black]On a side note, noting what Doc Flabby said in comparing the Big 3 to the UK car manufacturers...I am not sure I can agree with you at least on the line of replacement parts, as I actually think that the Big 3 make decent replacement parts for their cars and trucks, unlike the crap Lucas parts I had and still am having in dealing with when I had my old Triumph and especially today with my Land Rover.

The european arms of the big 3 are great. Producing quality cars and parts and are profitable. They have been pretty much subsidising the american side. My critism and real question is why the american side of the business has not followed the profitable business model of the european side, escpially considering americans buy more cars.

They don't NEED to do the research they have all the designs and engineering in europe already they can just copy that shit over.

a big part of foreign cares being cheaper is they dont have unions raping their corporation for shit loads of money/breaks

You're missing the real problem: the foreign cars ARE BETTER

If they REALLY had a problem with the unions chapter 11 would be their best option...It would provide them a great opertunity to renegociate all the contracts...In fact i'd start by sacking the board...However it would mean they might lose there private jets which they flew out in to ask for your money :P

Hell even in the same company they are better. Ford's european division has been subsidising american ford for years. Fords european division makes well respected cars in europe that are popular and has been profitable for a long time. Strangly in "socialist" europe the unions don't seem to prevent car companies making a profit.

The real problem the business stratey of these companies sucks. The people running them are not running them in the interests of the company...but rather themselves...

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Chrysler is a privately owned company, and IMHO should not get the bailout funding. I also heard of talk between GM and Chrysler in a merger? This is a Public company merging with a private company? That would result in GM buying Chrysler. I thought GM didn't have money?


F the Big 3. When a production line worker is making $75 an hour with full medical benefits and no co-pay, along with a pension fund and then having the UAW say that the workers will not take any cuts in pay or their insurance....I say F'm and every overpaid employee. From upper management to the production line worker...they are all overpaid and do not want to face the realities of the worlds financial problems.

On a side note, noting what Doc Flabby said in comparing the Big 3 to the UK car manufacturers...I am not sure I can agree with you at least on the line of replacement parts, as I actually think that the Big 3 make decent replacement parts for their cars and trucks, unlike the crap Lucas parts I had and still am having in dealing with when I had my old Triumph and especially today with my Land Rover.

[Liquid Blue]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/19/news...ion=2008121909

President Bush announced a rescue plan for General Motors and Chrysler LLC Friday morning that will make $13.4 billion in federal loans available almost immediately.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Izor]

Where will they get any money to research and develop better cars when all of their money is going to their staff. Theres no profit for these companies right now, and the reason is the unions. They still do sell cars, trust me, but they cant make any money because of the money the unions take from them

The 'overwhelming evidence' here is the wild claim that unions made things like the 40 hour work week based on no fact at all.

Giving these companies money is just going to continue their bad business techniques. You really, truly think that in 3 months (which is when theyre going to come back for more money) they'll turn things around and start making profit? The new model year cars wont even be out by then. How could you possibly justify that? Also, the jobs that we're losing here in america will be more than made up for when these companies come back much leaner assuming they dont outsource a lot of the jobs to canada and mexico again.

[Displaced]

america is the only country in the world with unions? :whistling

[HateTheFake]

No the collapse of gm is due to making shitty cars no one wants to buy. It has nothing to do with the unions. Foriegn manufactures have factories in the USA. Your toyota or other generic eastern car maker is probably made in the USA. Im pretty sure BMW has factories in USA. Its not they dont hav the skills to build good cars...the american big 3 lack the vision.

Foreign cars are simply cheaper/better made/cheaper to run. The european models that ford make are vastly better than the american ones. And it shows. fords european division is profitable, the american division is losing money.

Much like the British car industry in the 1970s...the american car industry has made the same mistake of making cars no one wants to buy.

a big part of foreign cares being cheaper is they dont have unions raping their corporation for shit loads of money/breaks

[Doc Flabby]

Unions were great in the 1800s but unions as of now dont do shit for me. I work 100 hours a week, I dont have holidays off. Im fine with it, because its a job that i knew what i was getting into. Unions would rather have it so they make as much money as the corporation on every where. The unions are the reason for the clapse of gm. Noone can deny that.

No the collapse of gm is due to making shitty cars no one wants to buy. It has nothing to do with the unions. Foriegn manufactures have factories in the USA. Your toyota or other generic eastern car maker is probably made in the USA. Im pretty sure BMW has factories in USA. Its not they dont hav the skills to build good cars...the american big 3 lack the vision.

Foreign cars are simply cheaper/better made/cheaper to run. The european models that ford make are vastly better than the american ones. And it shows. fords european division is profitable, the american division is losing money.

Much like the British car industry in the 1970s...the american car industry has made the same mistake of making cars no one wants to buy.

[gran guerrero]

this thread needs less politix and moar mudslingin

[Squeezer]

Unions were great in the 1800s but unions as of now dont do shit for me. I work 100 hours a week, I dont have holidays off. Im fine with it, because its a job that i knew what i was getting into. Unions would rather have it so they make as much money as the corporation on every where. The unions are the reason for the clapse of gm. Noone can deny that.

Hence why I posted this at the end! :sorcerer:

edit: Not saying the UAW isn't stubborn and outdated, only that you should recognize that the reason your professional life is so cushy is because of the effort Unions have made in America's history.

It's a stupid idea to disassemble the only protection a worker gets from their employer. You want an example of people getting fucked by their bosses because of unfair practices, read about Wal-Mart sometime.

[HateTheFake]

Unions were great in the 1800s but unions as of now dont do shit for me. I work 100 hours a week, I dont have holidays off. Im fine with it, because its a job that i knew what i was getting into. Unions would rather have it so they make as much money as the corporation on every where. The unions are the reason for the clapse of gm. Noone can deny that.

[Trunks_rage]

Their responses have gotten noticeably smaller Squeezer because they have no more facts to back up their arguments. It's a matter of pure opinion in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Some would call that arrogance, the type displayed on Fox News or in the conservative blog echo chamber. The truth doesn't matter because they simply dislike the truth.

[HateTheFake]

ive lived in 2 right to work states and I dont see a problem with not having them.

[Squeezer]

Yes, lets credit the unions for a 5 day work week and 8 hour work days. Because clearly the unions invented those. They also clearly invented everything else you listed, like child labor laws. If not for unions we'd still be having our 8 year olds making soccer balls! Also if not for unions no one would ever have a retirement plan health insurance or life insurance!!!

They pushed for legislation to make sure that systems were in place to protect against the things I listed. Do you really feel that unions deserve no credit for anything on that list?

[Izor]

Yes, lets credit the unions for a 5 day work week and 8 hour work days. Because clearly the unions invented those. They also clearly invented everything else you listed, like child labor laws. If not for unions we'd still be having our 8 year olds making soccer balls! Also if not for unions no one would ever have a retirement plan health insurance or life insurance!!!

But you DID leave out their number one invention:

mandatory 15 minute breaks every hour