Auto Bailout DE-NIED

[Displaced]

1980's Old's are terrible, who rerstores a mid-80's Old's? It's like restoring a Chrysler K car...would have been better off to restore a 1970 Old's 440....That's a shame though, as Old's parts are plentiful all over the place....sounds like he was not looking in the best spots.

IIRC it had some kind of sentimental value, it ended up burning in a shed, so wasted project, but nvm.
As for the door, IIRC it was sourced from YearOne, who as far as I understand is widely recognized stateside.

I can claim the same for a 2001 VW Cabrio, as we needed a new drivers side door...finally I went to a junk yard to get one, as the dealer couldn't get one factory replacement door from VW direct to work properly fitting w/o gaps and electronic wise with the power windows and mirrors operational. It's a two way street it would seem.

Granted, every car maker has its "lemons", but I'd be willing to call some hefty bullshit on that 2001 VW, I used to own a 2002 V5 Golf, I've had no problems with any spares, from any Year Model, be it bootlids from a 2000 or doorcards from a 2001, if a dealer is unable to get the power windows and mirrors working (which are plug and play) I can't imagine them being very good.

Not sure who mentioned the Ford F-150, but this is a work truck and not an SUV...need to get the category of the vehicle correct. We have two F-150's we use at work with both having over 100,000 miles on them and never a prob with regular servicing. Sounds like that exported F-150 was a lemmon...probably made on a Mon. or Fri. Ford's ecoline vans are also workhorses too..never had a prob...however we had a Volvo box truck at work for maybe a year...what a piece of crap that was.

I mentioned the F-150, and the context was "truck/SUV", It may well have been a lemon, I wish I had more experiences with them, but I will say that I've (personally) never had a good experience with ANY american car.

Audi's...hmm...nice car if your under 5'-8"...at least with the TT of which has fallen to the side in consumer interest.

Audi does have other models :turned:

I remember the Audi's of the early-mid 70's of which they would just engage in drive from park with the automatics they made...that and the engines always catching on fire.

Common fault of pretty much any automatic car in the 70s?

Audi's also made the 1.8L engines for themselves as well as for VW for the 2002-03 engines in the Jetta's and Beetles...these engines always had probs as soon as the weather got cold and below 30F (-1C), as the coil packs failed.

Well it wasn't strictly speaking an Audi unit, it was a "VAG" unit, Audi had slightly different internals + turbo + SIMC + etc etc compared to the VW unit and the Skoda unit and the Seat unit.
Also, the coil pack failure, wasn't limited to the 1.8T engine, it was on pretty much all of the VAG group engines of the time, from the 1.6l to the 3.2l.
It wasn't actually VAG groups fault, since bosch had supplied a run of offspec coilpacks.
p.s. mine never failed, even in -20C weather.

Plain and simple...I think all car manufacturers make crap at times and the all will have some up's and downs.

I agree that all car manufacturers have had steaming piles of shit, but I can't seriously name one decent car to come out of the US since the late 70s.

The Porsche SUV is riduclous, as you can't even tow anything with it....the guys I know in the local Porsche club had been excited about these when they 1st came out, so they could possibly tow their 914's and 356's to rallys and shows...ends up they killed the transmissions on the SUV in doing so. It was a rich mans SUV for just driving and nothing else IMHO...these guys dumped the Cayennes for Ford F-250's and GMC Tahoe's. I am no fan of American cars, but for the use of what was needed, I totally understand why they did this.

Misnomer much? you can tow over 3 tonnes with a Cayenne, a Tahoe 4x4 is rated at just under 3 tonnes.... If they manage to break the gearbox, they are probably mistreating their car :P

Name one good foreign truck, thanks. The Tundra? Titan? Still would buy an F150. Would buy a Yukon or Explorer over their counterparts too. Hell, after seeing the Flex with panoramic roof if I had 6 kids or wanted an ugly ass car Id rather get one of those than a Scion

I wouldn't know what the Tundra or Titan are like, because they are only for the USDM, same goes for the Scion, we don't get that over here.
That said, the Toyota Hilux is a damn solid workhorse, as is a Nissan Navara.

And as for the difference between ford europe and ford us? One difference that comes to mind to me would be the fact that while the US discontinued the focus SVT for no reason, the focus RS still is around in Europe. Europeans actually need the performance though...its not like the US where it doesnt matter how fast your car is cause you can go a max of 75 at any given time following the law.

The focus RS was discontinued in Europe in 2003, the new RS is going to be released soon.
And basically all the highways in Europe (bar a few unrestricted areas of the Autobahn) are limited to a lawful max of 120km/h or 75mph

wow that was a lot of stuff

[Witness]

Unions were great in the 1800s but unions as of now dont do shit for me. I work 100 hours a week, I dont have holidays off. Im fine with it, because its a job that i knew what i was getting into. Unions would rather have it so they make as much money as the corporation on every where. The unions are the reason for the clapse of gm. Noone can deny that.

ERRRRRR wrong =/ The whole reason were in such shit, is the FREE TRADE AGREEMENT nothing to do with the union. And you could also blame the 3.50 dollar amount in gas that hurt everyone across the united states. which diesal is still high. America can not compete with another country that pays there workers 10cents an hour to make the same thing. Down with the free trade!!!! They talk about a level playing field, can we get there? i dont see how with all the coruption around the world. (if you want this to work make everyone around the world would have to pay there workers at least minimum wage)

The Unions have been good for a couple of things, when the unions got a raise , so did that little person working at mcdonalds, or the builder that was building his house because he could charge more. How much money does a corporation need to make? look at what gm made in 2006 it was in the billions ? where did it all go? in the executives pockets.. not the little guy. so how much do they need to make? Im all for if your company makes alot of money , give the little part of it back. bonuses would be nice, but not for just the executives.

As for foreign cars , if you like them so much move to europe or whereever they come from. And i dont want to hear there made here, yeah they might be made here, but there profits are all going back to somewhere else. GTFO.
Wait this kinda goes back to the unions. Why dont they have unions? simple answer they want to charge and make as much money as they can. If your making 18$ working there instead of 24$ dollars in a union. oh thats 6$ more that goes to someother guy overseas. BUY AMERICAN. And second of all foreign cars are small. I Love sitting up in the air seeing above you!.

ps Dont call me when you need help moving to your new apartment.
Have fun making 20 trips in your little honda civic.

[Izor]

This makes no sense to me, how can the US made trucks/SUV's be very well built compared to their foreign counterparts, but the foreign counterparts will keep on going forever.
To me quality is all about reliability. (percieved quality aside)

Name one good foreign truck, thanks. The Tundra? Titan? Still would buy an F150. Would buy a Yukon or Explorer over their counterparts too. Hell, after seeing the Flex with panoramic roof if I had 6 kids or wanted an ugly ass car Id rather get one of those than a Scion

But...who would buy a fusion over a camry? Even when I just bought my new Focus the other day they had an ad up and the salesman tried telling my boss that car and driver rated the fusion way better than the camry. Nobody really believes that I dont think.

And as for the difference between ford europe and ford us? One difference that comes to mind to me would be the fact that while the US discontinued the focus SVT for no reason, the focus RS still is around in Europe. Europeans actually need the performance though...its not like the US where it doesnt matter how fast your car is cause you can go a max of 75 at any given time following the law.

[Cops]

Everyone i know would rather buy a truck/SUV from a US automaker, because its general consensus that the trucks/SUVs are very well built compared to foreign companies (mostly due to the fact that they dont have any demand for them in those countries). However, its also the general consensus of people that ive come across that you can beat down a foreign car and it will keep on ticking and theyre much more reliable. Thats just how it is. Unfortunately the market in america for bigger vehicles is declining rapidly and people really are going with those foreign cars based off those beliefs

North American Automaker, but I pretty much agree with you.

404: So it's not that they don't allow foreign cars in their country, they just tax the crap out of them? Yeah, that shit shouldn't fly.

[404 Not Found]

edit: This isn't completely relevant today, but ill just put it out there.
US cars in the past, i.e. up to the late 80s atleast, didn't even have "proper" spare parts.
A friend of ours had a 1984 Oldsmobile Cutlass, which he was restoring, he was able to source some original doors and a hood from the US, (for a 1984 Cutlass mind) and lo and behold, they weren't even close to fitting).
In comparison, buy a spare door for a 1984 Corolla, and it will fit every time.

1980's Old's are terrible, who rerstores a mid-80's Old's? It's like restoring a Chrysler K car...would have been better off to restore a 1970 Old's 440....That's a shame though, as Old's parts are plentiful all over the place....sounds like he was not looking in the best spots. I can claim the same for a 2001 VW Cabrio, as we needed a new drivers side door...finally I went to a junk yard to get one, as the dealer couldn't get one factory replacement door from VW direct to work properly fitting w/o gaps and electronic wise with the power windows and mirrors operational. It's a two way street it would seem.

Not sure who mentioned the Ford F-150, but this is a work truck and not an SUV...need to get the category of the vehicle correct. We have two F-150's we use at work with both having over 100,000 miles on them and never a prob with regular servicing. Sounds like that exported F-150 was a lemmon...probably made on a Mon. or Fri. Ford's ecoline vans are also workhorses too..never had a prob...however we had a Volvo box truck at work for maybe a year...what a piece of crap that was.

Audi's...hmm...nice car if your under 5'-8"...at least with the TT of which has fallen to the side in consumer interest. I remember the Audi's of the early-mid 70's of which they would just engage in drive from park with the automatics they made...that and the engines always catching on fire. That was when Porsche dumped them as a partner...smart move. Audi's also made the 1.8L engines for themselves as well as for VW for the 2002-03 engines in the Jetta's and Beetles...these engines always had probs as soon as the weather got cold and below 30F (-1C), as the coil packs failed. Try strating your car with that prob...won;t work and then it took a class action legal matter to get them to admit and make a replacement coil that worked...as prior to the legal matter they just repolaced them with known faulty parts.. these turbo engines also had been known to accumulate oil sludge that f'd up the engine. That was a nightmare for VW using the Audi made engines. Don't get me wrong, as the new A4 and A6 are really nice, but Audi has had decades of nightmares in what they put on the market.

Plain and simple...I think all car manufacturers make crap at times and the all will have some up's and downs.

The Porsche SUV is riduclous, as you can't even tow anything with it....the guys I know in the local Porsche club had been excited about these when they 1st came out, so they could possibly tow their 914's and 356's to rallys and shows...ends up they killed the transmissions on the SUV in doing so. It was a rich mans SUV for just driving and nothing else IMHO...these guys dumped the Cayennes for Ford F-250's and GMC Tahoe's. I am no fan of American cars, but for the use of what was needed, I totally understand why they did this.

The South Korea factor is ridiculous in what they allow imported, with heavy import tarrifs and limits on the number of cars they allow. The problem I see with that is that the States should impose the same outrageous tarrifs on the Korean cars imported in the States....why this is not done is somewhat odd. As I mentioned previosuly, China is working with GM in having their cars made in Mexico to avoid the heavy import tarrifs and slide under the fence with the NAFTA agreement.

As for unions...unions can be broken regardles of what industry. If the UAW was good for the US automakers employee's why didn't they do anything to stop the plant closings for the past decades that moved to Mexico and elsewhere? What happened to the UAW when NAFTA was signed? For such a strong and big union, they vanished in the representation of their employee's, companies and closed plants. The UAW to me is a sham, but the workers represented by them are just as much idiots not looking to the future but more about what they feel is owed to them. Why prevent the headache when you know you can...lets just wait for it and someone will hand us a few asperin?

[Nycle]

Can you explain to me how European Ford cars are substantially better than North American cars? What's the difference in standards, how are they constructed differently? What exactly is the difference from cars made in North America and Europe.

They are better because 10 years ago, when the European divisions were still losing money, they already reached the point where they said "Hey we're losing money, let's re-organise and actually build what the public wants", much like the US has now. So streamlining the management, closing bad plants an cutting deals with unions while catering to the European demand (partly due to EU legislation as well) of fuel-efficient, space-saving, well-designed and high-quality vehicles has put them in a position of not only producing better cars, but also to weather the current storm way better than their motherships in the US.

This has always been the difference between Europe and North America, some products like cars may be way more expensive in Europe than over there but it's a price the consumers are willing to pay in return for some decent quality.

Edit: Yea what Displaced said... :/

[Displaced]

Everyone i know would rather buy a truck/SUV from a US automaker, because its general consensus that the trucks/SUVs are very well built compared to foreign companies (mostly due to the fact that they dont have any demand for them in those countries). However, its also the general consensus of people that ive come across that you can beat down a foreign car and it will keep on ticking and theyre much more reliable. Thats just how it is. Unfortunately the market in america for bigger vehicles is declining rapidly and people really are going with those foreign cars based off those beliefs

This makes no sense to me, how can the US made trucks/SUV's be very well built compared to their foreign counterparts, but the foreign counterparts will keep on going forever.
To me quality is all about reliability. (percieved quality aside)

as for Jerome, yes Korean brands have improved substantially, but they are still leaps and bounds behind their japanese counterparts..
As for the Audi statement, I don't remember, since I wasn't around in 1899 or 1921, but Audis (Auto Union) were dominating motorsports venues in the 1930's, and early 80s audis are better than the kias and hyundais of today :turned:

Cops: The main difference, like it or not, is that the consumers in Europe as a whole are much more demanding than in NA (dont take that as a dig, it isn't meant like that) and as such Ford Europe has to build cars to much more exacting standards than in North America.
Add to that the stringent EU regulations on automakers, which basically forces tolerances to be smaller, thus providing a better end product.

Plus almost all of the major components (engines, transmissions, etc are built in the EU, and are at large quite different to the versions used for the USDM versions)

edit: This isn't completely relevant today, but ill just put it out there.
US cars in the past, i.e. up to the late 80s atleast, didn't even have "proper" spare parts.
A friend of ours had a 1984 Oldsmobile Cutlass, which he was restoring, he was able to source some original doors and a hood from the US, (for a 1984 Cutlass mind) and lo and behold, they weren't even close to fitting).
In comparison, buy a spare door for a 1984 Corolla, and it will fit every time.

[Izor]

Everyone i know would rather buy a truck/SUV from a US automaker, because its general consensus that the trucks/SUVs are very well built compared to foreign companies (mostly due to the fact that they dont have any demand for them in those countries). However, its also the general consensus of people that ive come across that you can beat down a foreign car and it will keep on ticking and theyre much more reliable. Thats just how it is. Unfortunately the market in america for bigger vehicles is declining rapidly and people really are going with those foreign cars based off those beliefs

[Cops]

remember when audi was like kia and hyundai

say what you will but i might throw some dimes at korean stocks

Hyundai and Kia are much better cars than they were ten-to-fifteen years ago. Their dirt cheap, but I still think a Honda black or silver will have the greatest return when it comes to keeping dollars in your wallet at the gas station and at the dealership.

[Cops]

I personally wouldn't classify a Hyundai or a Kia as a "car", hence, they shouldn't even be considered :P

That said, there are lots of "foreign" SUV's I'd take over an American made SUV any day of the week.

Toyota, Lexus, Nissan, Subaru, Honda, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Land Rover, Range Rover, Porsche etc. etc.

As for "quality" of the Big 3, I also beg to differ that it is "fine".
I've had the unfortunate experience of having two Jeeps as company cars, they were in the dealership more often than on the road, gearbox issues, fuelpump issues, driveshaft issues, electrical issues, hell one of the two even caught fire when the fuelpump shorted... but I guess thats all "fine" :turned:

The EUDM Fords are decent, and cars that I could consider buying, but the USDM Fords are utter garbage, a friend of mine imported a F-150 from the states, what a bomb that turned out to be, interior is made up of parts that dont fit together, and after 65k (km) it had already had 2 gearbox changes, robust piece of engineering

Back on point though, I dont think the big 3 should "die", they are far too valuable to the economy, however some kind of mandated/regulated reorganistaion should be put into effect, there is absolutely no sense in the way the big 3 are run atm.

p.s. you can buy "foreign" cars in South Korea, i.e. Lexus has dealerships in Seoul.

I thought they didn't import foreign cars. As far as I knew South Korea doesn't import Ford, and GM vehicles. As far as SUV's go Ford isn't that bad, but they aren't the best things out there. North American cars aren't shitty, it's not like we drive complete pieces of crap. I think horror stories exist everywhere so you can't judge a vehicle by one single story.

Can you explain to me how European Ford cars are substantially better than North American cars? What's the difference in standards, how are they constructed differently? What exactly is the difference from cars made in North America and Europe. You might have problems with shit boxes left to sit at a dealership but unless our highways are full of cars on fire I fail to see how our product is far less superior to your product. I'm just curious is all, considering I figure Ford in Ontario, or Detroit isn't much different than Ford in The Netherlands. The only difference I see is that these companies run in Europe aren't run by complete ass-bags who don't know their own car from their private jet. They might also make a product people actually want, lol.

however some kind of mandated/regulated reorganistaion should be put into effect, there is absolutely no sense in the way the big 3 are run atm.

Regulation, reorganization? Sounds like a socialism to me! Not really, but the American public won't accept those ideas, ever. The problem is that you're handing a company money that's going to run itself into the ground again and again.

[Jerome Scuggs]

remember when audi was like kia and hyundai

say what you will but i might throw some dimes at korean stocks

[Displaced]

I personally wouldn't classify a Hyundai or a Kia as a "car", hence, they shouldn't even be considered :P

That said, there are lots of "foreign" SUV's I'd take over an American made SUV any day of the week.

Toyota, Lexus, Nissan, Subaru, Honda, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Land Rover, Range Rover, Porsche etc. etc.

As for "quality" of the Big 3, I also beg to differ that it is "fine".
I've had the unfortunate experience of having two Jeeps as company cars, they were in the dealership more often than on the road, gearbox issues, fuelpump issues, driveshaft issues, electrical issues, hell one of the two even caught fire when the fuelpump shorted... but I guess thats all "fine" :turned:

The EUDM Fords are decent, and cars that I could consider buying, but the USDM Fords are utter garbage, a friend of mine imported a F-150 from the states, what a bomb that turned out to be, interior is made up of parts that dont fit together, and after 65k (km) it had already had 2 gearbox changes, robust piece of engineering

Back on point though, I dont think the big 3 should "die", they are far too valuable to the economy, however some kind of mandated/regulated reorganistaion should be put into effect, there is absolutely no sense in the way the big 3 are run atm.

p.s. you can buy "foreign" cars in South Korea, i.e. Lexus has dealerships in Seoul.

[Cops]

You're missing the real problem: the foreign cars ARE BETTER

Not necessarily, for suburban and urban driving foreign cars are better but as far as SUVs go I'd still avoid getting a Hyundai or a Kia. Depending on where you live or how you live for that matter a small fuel efficient vehicle isn't always ideal.

The quality of the Big 3 vehicles are fine, they just got greedy and produced SUV's that have something like $20,000 of profit made on each vehicle, compared to $2,000 - 5,000 of profit made on each smaller vehicle. They're going to make more money on an SUV than a car, the only problem was they weren't selling any SUVs.

I'm with 404 on this one, the blame really falls on a multiple number of people. I would literally fire 90% of the CEO's and top level executives who like everyone else saw this coming and squandered their companies money. As a shareholder once you lose trust in a company then I would no longer invest in that company, and like many people they no longer believe these three companies deserve OUR trust or our money. The problem is that these companies can't die, and the government knows it, and what's worse is the companies know it. That's exactly why they rolled into Washington on their private jets with their hands out, because they expected the government to just hand them their cheque and go home. It was fucking awesome to see them get dragged through the fucking mud, it had to happen.

I'd like to see these fucking unions let the fuck up, and stop expecting that their workers make double or triple what other people are making with the same level of education and work load.

I'd also like to see countries like South Korea allow foreign companies the ability to sell vehicles in their country.

[Cops]

Why not re-invest in new blooming technology and use the mid-west and northern parts of Canada to harness wind energy? I know some farmers are but there's money to be made, and it'll suck once North Americans try to play catch up.

[kthx]

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