Hamas and Israel

[Kolar]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0114/p07s01-wome.html

That's not good. What's worse is that it's hard to get any confirmed information since journalist are not allowed inside Gaza. I saw those images on CNN about a week ago wondering what it was, if they are using white phosphorus it's a war crime. In an urban warfare setting there's no chance the other side has any heavy weapons or vehicles that this weapon is authorized to be used against, much less anyone caught in the cross fire.

[Exalt]

Lets All Join Hamas!!!!

Since they're a legitimate organization of freedom and equality loving people fighting for a righteous cause...
DEFINITELY not created with the intent of killing Jews, denying the Holocaust and destroying Israel brick by brick...

oh wait, that's in their founding constitution...


I don't know how this conflict has become a "whose right or wrong" debate.

HAMAS 4 LYFE!

[Vatican Assassin]

Guys I was chillin in Gaza and was lucky enough to get this pic off, worst vacation ever.

[Cops]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1TeV0a4lYU

watch, enjoy, comment.

[Cops]

US and A sendt

Hate to be a dick, but this is gold! On a scale of 10 out of 10 how drunk are you?

[Lucon]

Aaaaaahhhhh Why Won't It Die!?

[RATTY...]

The situation wouldn't suck as much but it turns out Israel had planned the attack and invasion of Gaza months in advance...

out of interest, where did you read/hear this?

US and A sendt Israel loads of ammo right before the planned attack started, I'm gonna dig up sources tomorrow.

[Liquid Blue]

sorry for the dp

What do you guys think would happen if a sudden nuclear attack took out the majority of Jerusalem?

Would it immediately ignite nuclear holocaust? Are we humans so quick to annihilate all life?

Would it spark a more regional nuclear war? The only thing stopping an arab country from nuking israel is the nukes themselves. but if they had them, would they be willing to sacrifice Jerusalem?

With Jerusalem gone, what would Jews/muslims have to fight for?


If it's going to come down to WW3, and nuking Jerusalem would avert it, would the world do it? Afterall we nuked Japan for a lot less.

A nuclear attack anywhere would just cluster fuck this situation to the extreme. It doesn't matter who uses it or where it lands but all shit breaks loose at that point.

I don't think everyone would start slinging nukes, but everyone's nukes would go on standby and if it was Israel that launched it, I would hope Obama would condemn them for it. If any country launched it at Israel then I wouldn't be surprised if America joined Israel in bombing the shit out of people

[Liquid Blue]

Sure I can. WW2 was only 60 years ago. Thats your grandparents generation right there, and who do you think are running the world governments? Your grandparents' generation and in some cases your parent's generation, not YOUR generation.

WW2 was 64 years ago, which European countries exactly do you think have 84 year old men and women, running their government?

this is whats wrong with Europe too... you all say "WE LOVE PEACE AND DEMOCRACY!" and then say "WE DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THESE COUNTRIES! DIE ISREAL DIE!

none of you seem to realize the bullshit that is brought onto Isreal's door everyday, and none of you even care... the palastinians could have lived in peace by letting deplomacy work and keeping with the peace treaty, but they did not, and firing even a single bullet over into Isreal was a STUPID move on their part

the problem with terrorist groups are that they do not think about the consequences of their actions, lets look at 9/11 for instance... Al Queda sure as hell didn't think USA would come after them as they did or they wouldn't have done it, they screwed up in that aspect, terrorist groups are not as organized as everyone 'thinks' they are, they are a bunch of hoodlum thugs that use politics and religion as their reasoning for doing criminal acts

if the Palastinians were actually smart, they would look at HISTORY and realize violence NEVER solves anything in a diplomatic standpoint... they should take notes from Ghandi or from Martin Luther King etc etc if they want to get anywhere in this whole process

And to the rest of you USA/Isreal hating European countries, why don't you try having a 9/11 type attack on your country, and tell me you still LOVE terrorists. Better yet, go fly to the Gaza strip and tell Hamas how much you love them. Either you will get your throat slit or you will get some bombs duct taped to your body. I'm sure you will be rooting against Isreal then.

You're just as bad as Zerz, only instead of an obsession to rag on America fueling your posts, you just have a wacky set of facts that you're trying to string an argument from.

You realize you're basically saying that European countries are too weak to get involved because they're run by the elderly and haven't been hit by any terrorist attacks? Most of the people here just want the needless killing to stop, and just because Hamas hasn't agreed to a cease-fire yet, doesn't mean Israel needs to keep bombing Gaza every day. I don't even know how you can even justify the amount of innocent deaths that have occurred yet. It's a stupid move to continue with such reckless aggression, period. Talks and cease-fires were needed two weeks ago, and they still haven't had any productive and lasting ones yet.

This isn't the 1940's anymore, this type of behavior shouldn't keep happening.


Good article, R1pp3r.

[Cops]

Sorry Farscape but once the oil is gone you and your Muslim friends can go at it and the rest of us will be tuning out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1TeV0a4lYU

[laureth]

Jesus Christ, you just based your entire argument on a false fact. Name ANY world leader that was born before WW2. And why are you even involving world governments at all? This is about me and other people defending their right to say whatever they want, and that history cannot be applied to us in order to negate this right.

What exactly is Europe saying while at the same time not doing it?

Wait... what? Just one example, last time I checked (and I can only speak on behalf of my own country) my government has long been allowing Israel to use our national airport as a hub for American weapon transports to Israel. I dare to say that they even covered up the details surrounding an airplane crash for them in order to conceal the weapons that it carried. We've never even had a conflict with Israel and have always maintained friendly relations, why are you saying we hate them? I think you're just throwing in random crap.

Let me answer that with a 2nd reply to this quote:If your nation was forced from their historical living grounds by your neighbor, would you just come to accept that and 'move on'? You know what the answer to that question is. And I'm not even talking about the more recent developments such as the Israeli imposed isolation on the Gaza strip.

Yet you seem to condone Israel's disproportionate attack. Estimated death tolls from yesterday's evening news:

Gaza strip: 900 (30% are children)
Israel: 15

By the looks of how you're write things down I just think you're being dramatic and irrational. No one in this entire thread has condoned the violent actions of Hamas and yet you seem to make it look like that's exactly what we're all doing. Most of the supposedly 'Anti-Israel' people in this thread care for the needless Palestinian casualties so far.

good shout
exalt i don't you know but you make me angry for some reason (i see where you are coming from) but still....idiot

[DankNuggets]

A thought

What do you guys think would happen if a sudden nuclear attack took out the majority of Jerusalem?

Would it immediately ignite nuclear holocaust? Are we humans so quick to annihilate all life?

Would it spark a more regional nuclear war? The only thing stopping an arab country from nuking israel is the nukes themselves. but if they had them, would they be willing to sacrifice Jerusalem?

With Jerusalem gone, what would Jews/muslims have to fight for?


If it's going to come down to WW3, and nuking Jerusalem would avert it, would the world do it? Afterall we nuked Japan for a lot less.

[R1pp3r]

And for those of you who complain about civilian deaths, well, people die in war. Get over it. No matter how "smart" a bomb's name can sound, it's still a bomb, it has a blast radius, and people can always be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Welcome to the real world.

You may not know that:

The people of Gaza practically have nowhere to flee.
They live under inhumane conditions.
Smart bombs? You forgot to mention the clusterbombs and the calculated attacks on schools, ambulances and whatnot.
Israel has been killing around 30 innocent children for every dead Israeli soldier.

If you do get that then how can you possibly support that and even tell people to get over it? Israel is showing far more brutality than Hamas regardless of how many times you call them terrorists or play the victim.

[Kolar]

this is whats wrong with Europe too... you all say "WE LOVE PEACE AND DEMOCRACY!" and then say "WE DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THESE COUNTRIES! DIE ISREAL DIE!

Actually Exalt I do care about peace but I don't care for "rooting" for only the Palestinians or only the Israelis. I don't like that the conflict is more important then Sudan, Somalia or even Afghanistan when many more people are dying in those countries, but the reality is that international politics, natural resources and to some extent superstition makes the Palestinian-Israeli conflict more news-worthy, more worthy of our time and resources then a village being wiped out in Darfur or Kandahar.

Al Qaeda has succeeded in what they set out to do, cripple the US military and do damage to her economy. There have been more terrorist attacks since 2001 then in the last 20 years. The War on Terror and the ability to tie Iraq into it was a failure and those Europeon countries, your best allies in this world want nothing to do with you because of Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, extraordinary rendition, lacking habeas corpus for detainees, plain-old torture and illegal domestic spying. And I sure as hell don't blame them. If you think the United States and her allies are safer today then in September 2001 then you're a complete idiot.


Why do people think in such binary terms these days? Just because someone criticizes Israel on its conduct does not automatically make then a rank and file terrorist or sympathetic to the cause of Hamas. And conversely just because someone might find Hamas' actions deplorable does not mean their opinion suddenly becomes entirely in the opposing camp. I'm actually sick of having to criticize both in the same sentence just to get by on this forum.


Edit: And you know I don't take any kind of pleasure in listing the failures Bush Co. has given the world because I happen to live in close proximity to the United States, I count many Americans as friends and know that your safety means our safety, so before you accuse me of being a terrorist or even someone who would sympathize with any ideology that calls for the suffering and murder of innocent people, think that over.

[Nycle]

Sure I can. WW2 was only 60 years ago. Thats your grandparents generation right there, and who do you think are running the world governments? Your grandparents' generation and in some cases your parent's generation, not YOUR generation.

Jesus Christ, you just based your entire argument on a false fact. Name ANY world leader that was born before WW2. And why are you even involving world governments at all? This is about me and other people defending their right to say whatever they want, and that history cannot be applied to us in order to negate this right.

Europe has always been about talking but never doing what they say. All of you are condomning Isreal on this forum, but not realizing Isreal has every right to defend themselves as a nation. If your country was fired upon constantly by your neighbor, you wouldn't want to invade them and stop it? You know what the answer to that question is. And for those of you who complain about civilian deaths, well, people die in war. Get over it. No matter how "smart" a bomb's name can sound, it's still a bomb, it has a blast radius, and people can always be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Welcome to the real world.

What exactly is Europe saying while at the same time not doing it?

this is whats wrong with Europe too... you all say "WE LOVE PEACE AND DEMOCRACY!" and then say "WE DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THESE COUNTRIES! DIE ISREAL DIE!

Wait... what? Just one example, last time I checked (and I can only speak on behalf of my own country) my government has long been allowing Israel to use our national airport as a hub for American weapon transports to Israel. I dare to say that they even covered up the details surrounding an airplane crash for them in order to conceal the weapons that it carried. We've never even had a conflict with Israel and have always maintained friendly relations, why are you saying we hate them? I think you're just throwing in random crap.

none of you seem to realize the bullshit that is brought onto Isreal's door everyday, and none of you even care... the palastinians could have lived in peace by letting deplomacy work and keeping with the peace treaty, but they did not, and firing even a single bullet over into Isreal was a STUPID move on their part

Let me answer that with a 2nd reply to this quote:

If your country was fired upon constantly by your neighbor, you wouldn't want to invade them and stop it? You know what the answer to that question is.

If your nation was forced from their historical living grounds by your neighbor, would you just come to accept that and 'move on'? You know what the answer to that question is. And I'm not even talking about the more recent developments such as the Israeli imposed isolation on the Gaza strip.

if the Palastinians were actually smart, they would look at HISTORY and realize violence NEVER solves anything in a diplomatic standpoint... they should take notes from Ghandi or from Martin Luther King etc etc if they want to get anywhere in this whole process

Yet you seem to condone Israel's disproportionate attack. Estimated death tolls from yesterday's evening news:

Gaza strip: 900 (30% are children)
Israel: 15

And to the rest of you USA/Isreal hating European countries, why don't you try having a 9/11 type attack on your country, and tell me you still LOVE terrorists. Better yet, go fly to the Gaza strip and tell Hamas how much you love them. Either you will get your throat slit or you will get some bombs duct taped to your body. I'm sure you will be rooting against Isreal then.

By the looks of how you're write things down I just think you're being dramatic and irrational. No one in this entire thread has condoned the violent actions of Hamas and yet you seem to make it look like that's exactly what we're all doing. Most of the supposedly 'Anti-Israel' people in this thread care for the needless Palestinian casualties so far.