Hamas and Israel

[gran guerrero]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wv5mwenIvbM

[DankNuggets]

so what's happening?

(non-video link responses appreciated)

[Vatican Assassin]

If anyone wants a good history of British forces clearing Palestine for Jewish settlers here you go, pictures included!

http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2009/01/a-land-without-a-people.html

[Liquid Blue]

what a tool

[Kolar]

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=cznZs-swR9k

[Epinephrine]

Interesting 60 Minutes report on why peace may be impossible in Israel, from this past Sunday.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4752349n

[project dragon]

sigh.

[Cops]

Yea well if you throw around quotes like these:

The first comment doesn't show signs of bias, the second was sarcasm and the third wad idiotic.

[Jerome Scuggs]

It's interesting to look at the geopolitics at work, and how each side has a bizarre view of the world; each side tries to peddle their story. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but IMO any sort of real solution would be found by discarding that in favor of reapproaching the problem. To me, it translates into real-world action in the form of trials, for both sides. If the governments of the world are just, then they will hold Israel and Hamas responsible - if anything, murdering civilians.

[Displaced]

good stuff, lets hope the cease fire holds...

[Nycle]

In my initial efforts to understand both sides I ultimately was told I took a side, however I don't feel as though I fully backed one over the other. The problem is that like Kolar said it's getting pretty fucking sad that to even say anything in this thread you first have to throw up the white flag and say "I do't support either side", for what you say regardless of how critical it is to either side will not make someone assume you are bias.

Yea well if you throw around quotes like these:

fuck it

fuck hamas, let's here it for Israel!

Hamas needs to get crushed, plain and simple.

It's not that hard to imagine someone thinking that you're explicitly taking sides, and some will feel the need to attack you in order to 'set things straight', so to speak. I largely agree with you and Kolar on the status of this thread though, you guys always seem to make the big overarching comments no one else has the wording or sense for.

I generally tend to take sides with the weak, but it seems that the 'Palestinian side' is quite strong in this thread, and that's why I'm done with it. I was initially afraid that it was gonna turn out to be totally pro-Israel but now I feel like enough has been said and clarified in order for people to make up their minds and re-affirm or change their stance.

[Edit] Just in: Hamas announces immediate ceasefire. Things are looking better.

[Kolar]

Israel isn't going to leave Gaza. They're also not going to open up the boarder because they fear Hamas will rebuild and rearm.

[R1pp3r]

I can add that Israel has called a ceasefire and is now withdrawing its troops. Just now Hamas called a ceasefire as well and will give Israel troops a week to leave Gaza and open the borders for food and other aid. I agree that this thread might die out pretty soon but not only because of the "blame game" but also because of the horrid and unproportionate use of violence that seems to come to an end.

[Cops]

Jerome you missed the point, I think a lot of people have come to the realization that it's not about proving which side is morally or ethically in the right. Right now it's two things, 1) how can this conflict be solved (even if it's in the short run), and 2) It's about avoiding the loss of life.

In my initial efforts to understand both sides I ultimately was told I took a side, however I don't feel as though I fully backed one over the other. The problem is that like Kolar said it's getting pretty fucking sad that to even say anything in this thread you first have to throw up the white flag and say "I do't support either side", for what you say regardless of how critical it is to either side will not make someone assume you are bias.

This thread is more or less dead, people who have chosen a side and really feel one is more justified than the other will continue to point out what the other did. I'm thinking this thread needs to move on, rename the thread "Hamas and Israel - finding peace in turbulent times". A thread that moves past this blame game and looks at the issue from another perspective. Sadly, too many people are still caught up in this blame game and for someone like Farscape admitting his country is "wrong" or "isn't justified" in this thread is too much for him to take, so Epinephrine will just debate him into the ground and people will gradually stop posting.

[Jerome Scuggs]

well if anything, this thread has shown me how stupid i was to think that any sort of political/apolitical ideology would be better than the status quo. nothing says "morally superior" like a thread devoted to proving which murderer deserves to be committing murder, and nothing says "socially harmonious" like the fact that absolutely noone can agree.

it's an anarchist's wet dream. did i miss the revolution? i was told my dream world was nothing but violence and slaughter and immorality, but that's all there is now. did i miss something?