What's wrong with kids these days?

[Kolar]

While I agree with you Summa the US justice system has a long ways to go and the focus has to swing back towards rehabilitation, at the same time some consensus has to be reached on how to deal with juveniles. I personally don't believe someone at 16 or 17 is a completely different individual then they are at 19 or 20, nor should they get special treatment in hopes that they will reform in latter years. A lot of it is based on studies which purpose each person has some kind of mental age regardless of their physical age. But there's no standard method of assessing this value and the issue of trying a person as an adult or a juvenile is really up in the air.

In Canada we have the Youth Criminal Justice Act which goes way too far in protecting the accused. Their name and the names of their victims can't be published in the media, all court cases are completely closed and there's little to no exceptions as there are in the US. So even if someone is mentally and physically mature, knew exactly what they were doing as an adult would and could foresee the consequences for their actions they can't be tried as adults except for the rarest of cases.

Most states can't continue to operate their correctional facilities under three strike laws and minimum sentencing, California for example a few months ago was going to be forced by the Feds to release some prisoners due to overcrowding so even before you get into the ethical part of locking non-violent criminals away for years with violent people... the basic resources needed to continue to operate under those conditions simply are not there.

[Squeezer]

Oh yes, let you, I, and every other working American pay some of our taxes for that black dick to be shoved into his mouth. And then when he is done having that stripped of him, he will come out of jail and fall into unemployment due to not having a GED at least and no qualifications other than being a former felon. Now he is in a floundering economy with no qualifications, where will he turn? To what he is familiar with. Congrats we have another cyclic criminal that I have to pay for. With your solution he would be cheaper and probably better off dead, at least from a grand societal perspective. Pick your poison, give him a chance to change before he becomes a burden on society, or just try him as an adult and immediately create another burden on society...your choice.

He's already a burden to society! I don't hit bus drivers in the face. I'm pretty sure no one else on these forums has either. We all somehow manage to keep our hands to ourselves. He already proved that he can't function in society.

You want to argue about how cyclical the prison system in America is, you wont get any argument from me. But this is different than a dealer caught with an ounce of pot or coke. This kid knowingly attacked someone that was defenseless. He didn't just strike her once either, he went ballistic. At no point during the assault did he show signs of letting up and his motive was retarded at best. Prison was built for people like this kid. Sure, jail time might not fix his problems, but then again do you think anything on the outside world will? He was already flawed before he ended up in prison because of his instability. Rational minded people do not go around throwing fists at bus drivers.

He's a liability whether in the system or not and by the way you make it sound, both avenues are hopeless for the kid anyway. Why not send him to jail then and at least get him off the streets? If we're going to end up paying his way (via welfare or prison), I know which fate I'd choose for the boy.

And that big black cock I'll be paying for that kid to lick the sweat off of will teach have an effect on him one way or another.

[Summa]

He's already a burden to society! I don't hit bus drivers in the face. I'm pretty sure no one else on these forums has either. We all somehow manage to keep our hands to ourselves. He already proved that he can't function in society.

You want to argue about how cyclical the prison system in America is, you wont get any argument from me. But this is different than a dealer caught with an ounce of pot or coke. This kid knowingly attacked someone that was defenseless. He didn't just strike her once either, he went ballistic. At no point during the assault did he show signs of letting up and his motive was retarded at best. Prison was built for people like this kid. Sure, jail time might not fix his problems, but then again do you think anything on the outside world will? He was already flawed before he ended up in prison because of his instability. Rational minded people do not go around throwing fists at bus drivers.

He's a liability whether in the system or not and by the way you make it sound, both avenues are hopeless for the kid anyway. Why not send him to jail then and at least get him off the streets? If we're going to end up paying his way (via welfare or prison), I know which fate I'd choose for the boy.

And that big black cock I'll be paying for that kid to lick the sweat off of will teach have an effect on him one way or another.

If you think he is such a burden then why continue to pay for him? Why not kill him? From your tone moreso than actually quotations, you have abandoned all hope for this kid. He is beyond help and unable to function in society, so why pay for him for his entire life, with your reasoning for this kid, why not just off him for far cheaper and less trouble? Afterall he is a "liability". Liabilities should be eliminated.

[Squeezer]

If you think he is such a burden then why continue to pay for him? Why not kill him? From your tone moreso than actually quotations, you have abandoned all hope for this kid. He is beyond help and unable to function in society, so why pay for him for his entire life, with your reasoning for this kid, why not just off him for far cheaper and less trouble? Afterall he is a "liability". Liabilities should be eliminated.

Because I believe it's ethically wrong to kill him and you should too.

I haven't abandoned all hope, but he needs to be punished. Life should be harder for him than me from here on out. He should have to work twice as hard to get where I am. I followed the rules and he didn't. I managed not to assault somebody over something stupid and he didn't. He contributes nothing to society and now finds it necessary to exist on our mercy. That makes him a liability. I'm fine paying for that, especially when the alternative is to take him behind a shed and have him executed, but there need to be consequences for your actions.

He could have easily ruined this woman's life by blinding her with his fists, causing her to crash or causing emotional damage. Of course that doesn't matter because he's a poor victim of society and the system and if we imprison him, he'll continue to be a victim. Bullshit. IMO he either needs to take twice the initiative of regular people to redeem himself, or stay in prison and continue being a waste.

I don't care either way, but that poor lady could use some sort of retribution.

[Summa]

Because I believe it's ethically wrong to kill him and you should too.

I haven't abandoned all hope, but he needs to be punished. Life should be harder for him than me from here on out. He should have to work twice as hard to get where I am. I followed the rules and he didn't. I managed not to assault somebody over something stupid and he didn't. He contributes nothing to society and now finds it necessary to exist on our mercy. That makes him a liability. I'm fine paying for that, especially when the alternative is to take him behind a shed and have him executed, but there need to be consequences for your actions.

He could have easily ruined this woman's life by blinding her with his fists, causing her to crash or causing emotional damage. Of course that doesn't matter because he's a poor victim of society and the system and if we imprison him, he'll continue to be a victim. Bullshit. IMO he either needs to take twice the initiative of regular people to redeem himself, or stay in prison and continue being a waste.

I don't care either way, but that poor lady could use some sort of retribution.

I am in agreement that killing him is wrong, and while I am in no place to criticize due to lacking a better conceived alternative, I am also against paying for someone for their entire life essentially to be in a flawed facility that does not accomplish its reintegration goals. You can be fine with paying for that and thinking that is some kind of "punishment". He is being provided for better than some hard working Americans.

Here's the bottom line. Some unemployed hard-working American who has a kid and got laid off is worse off than this jackass who goes to prison and gets a warm bed, a roof over his head, and 3 meals a day, plus recreation equipment. He gets food, a home, a bed, and essentially access to a gym for what? For being a jackass and fucking up. Sure this kid will be someone's bitch the first time around, but give him a few years and few cycles, he will have a reputation and be just fine. You follow the rules and struggle to remain afloat. He shits on someone, gives up a few of his rights, and boom he's got a free ride paid for by you and me. That is something I WILL NOT support. You think its punishment, I think we are doing that bastard a favor by providing for him for life.

[Squeezer]

I am in agreement that killing him is wrong, and while I am in no place to criticize due to lacking a better conceived alternative, I am also against paying for someone for their entire life essentially to be in a flawed facility that does not accomplish its reintegration goals. You can be fine with paying for that and thinking that is some kind of "punishment". He is being provided for better than some hard working Americans.

How will he have it better? He'll get three meals and constantly have to worry about being pushed one way or another by other more dangerous people all day. I fail to see how spending 23 hrs in a single room with no female contact, no freedom and around the clock supervision is better than being able to freely work for a living, but I guess we differ there. Work sucks, but one thing I never have to worry about is being shanked by my editor.

Yes, the US prison system is flawed and overcrowded with non-violent crimes. Yes it is a waste to keep them behind bars when there are motherfucking 16-year-olds beating up old lady bus drivers. No, I don't know how to fix it, but this case seems like the perfect justification to send someone to jail. It was a violent crime committed for a meaningless reason on someone that was in no position to defend themselves. Like I said above, this kid is a bully and he needs a bigger bully to set him straight.

Or hell, maybe nothing will correct his behavior. Maybe he's beyond the point of rehabilitation. I don't know and it doesn't matter any way. At the base of this argument is this point: He egregiously broke the law and he deserves to see some sort of punishment for doing so. Personally, I can see no better punishment than locking him up with his own kind. I guarantee that there will be much more violent human beings where he's going and unlike the old lady he assaulted, they wont take his punkass schtick.

Here's the bottom line. Some unemployed hard-working American who has a kid and got laid off is worse off than this jackass who goes to prison and gets a warm bed, a roof over his head, and 3 meals a day, plus recreation equipment. He gets food, a home, a bed, and essentially access to a gym for what? For being a jackass and fucking up. Sure this kid will be someone's bitch the first time around, but give him a few years and few cycles, he will have a reputation and be just fine. You follow the rules and struggle to remain afloat. He shits on someone, gives up a few of his rights, and boom he's got a free ride paid for by you and me. That is something I WILL NOT support. You think its punishment, I think we are doing that bastard a favor by providing for him for life.

You know what...If you can't see the benefit in being a free man as opposed to being in jail, go rob a liquor store. Then you can have the same "free ride," he's going to get. Prison is a scary place where NO ONE is safe. It doesn't matter how big of a rep he has, there's someone that can put him in his place if he continues to act like a thug. A prison stretch is not a "life," it's a sentence. Don't think for one second that being in prison is some walk through the park. It's a place where the most dangerous members of society inhabit.

[DankNuggets]

i'm all for putting any violent offenders in prison, so they can experience it themselves. If he had not committed a violent crime, shown a lot of remoarse, or had some sort of disease, then sure, let him go through juvie. but he could have killed someone, and he probably wanted to. let him get what he deserves, which is prison.

[Cops]

I'm not sure that putting the kid in prison for several years will work, just like I'm not sure giving him a slap on the wrist will work either. Actually I'm almost certain the latter of the two won't work.

I find one option way too lenient, and one way too strict. The kid's going to eventually be on the streets at some point, so it might be in societies best interest to help diffuse his anger and give him the opportunity to change. If rehabilitation doesn't work, throw him in the pits with the other animals.

Also, what sort of rehabilitation would one get for this crime? I'd say he deserves to do some time in Juvy and possibly let boot camp break him. If there's any chance at breaking a youth who has the possibility of turning into a hard criminal it's when they're young.

[kthx]

I think squeezer hit the nail on the head when he told Summa to go commit a crime if he envied the life of someone in jail so much. I had a friend who worked for the TDJC and he was basically a prison guard in Huntsville State Prison here in Texas. He told me a lot about how society in prison works and the people on the lowest rung of society even among the criminals are people who beat women and child molesters. He also told me that it doesn't take long for inmates to find out what people are in for from the guards that they are for lack of a better word neutral with. This kid would have a shitty life in prison, but he deserves it for what he did, if he had been fighting another guy who was actually bowing up to fight him then this would be a different story, but you don't just run around punching innocent and defenseless people, especially woman in the face and brutally attacking them. Even if it isn't 10 years which I am personally not against he deserves to spend at least a year in a state or federal prison, and he wouldn't think he was such a hard ass when he got out.

[Vatican Assassin]

He's already a burden to society! I don't hit bus drivers in the face. I'm pretty sure no one else on these forums has either. We all somehow manage to keep our hands to ourselves. He already proved that he can't function in society.

Believe it or not there have been people who did committ really stupid and violent acts at a relatively early age and gone onto become decent people afterwards. It has happened. You don't think there is a difference between a 16 year-old and a 20 year-old? I think I knew a lot more when I was 20 then when I was 16.

edit: and five bucks says he was on anti-depressants. Is it the liberals or conservatives who are pushing these pills on kids? Oh well fuck em!

[FarScape]

Wow. All these posts and the one with the most clarity comes from an Israeli that dropped one sentence. To all those advocating that he be "shot behind a shed," or deported to Right-Wing America, I say we let the judicial system sort him out.

He thinks he's such a toughguy fighter for beating up a bus driver, then try him as an adult. I'm sure he feels he can handle being treated like an adult, given that he wants to be respected like one. Then, give him 10 years for assaulting that bus driver and let prison sort him out.

I'm sure that suburban white boy will learn just how tough he is behind bars.

Prison wont sort him up I think, it might be that he will drop into more crimes there.
It's clear that he needs some educational and social help, but he should pay for what he did to that woman and he is probably still a danger for society (who knows what he will do when he will "break lose" again).

[kthx]

Liberals did... obviously. Why do you think there are a bunch of lazy fucking parents who grew up taking drugs for their "ADD or ADHD" instead of going outside and fucking exercising their energy away who are now raising another generation of kids who are even more fucked up than they are.

[Vatican Assassin]

and another one

German student kills 15...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/12/wo...exprod=myyahoo

[Vykromond]

squeezer i didnt read all your posts but i do want to say that child criminals, even those who commit truly heinous crimes, can and have been rehabilitated, and to try kids as adults just because we think their crimes are "too awful" is a disservice to them, to us, and to our society at large~

[Izor]

meh, whats the % of 'rehabilitation?' I dont give a shit if one kid changes his ways when 30 dont.



thats what we need!