ITT Sarien "finishes" his AK-47 Build

[kthx]

Im watching a movie and ill reply to this dumbasses post(s) when I am done, but maybe you should watch Supersize Me if you don't think McDonalds kills people.

[Squeezer]

Im watching a movie and ill reply to this dumbasses post(s) when I am done, but maybe you should watch Supersize Me if you don't think McDonalds kills people.

hahaha so McDonalds, in your mind, is more harmful or equally as harmful as a firearm? I tell you what, I'll stuff my face with Mickie D's and you stuff yours with the barrell of a .45, then pull the trigger. We'll see which one of us goes out first.

edit: and that wasn't even my point. Was McDonalds started as a company that sold their burgers in order to kill people or did that come as a result of years and years of tampering with shit to make it cheaper?

[Squeezer]

We have yet to even consider the cultural impact of living in a nation that's armed to the fucking teeth and shows immense amounts of violence in every form of the media. I'm sure kthx will write this off as "pussy liberal shit" or something, but it can't be denied that the acceptance of violence likely causes some portion of the American mentality to be standoffish. Many people in this thread seem to see themselves in terms of protectors, but that's just disingenuous. You are not some god damned vigilante, god damnit.

For someone that shows intellegence when they write, you sure hold some funny views Wark. How can you rationalize using guns to curtail gun violence?

[kthx]

The same way we used nuclear weapons to force Japan into surrendering during ww2. The simple fact that we have nuclear weapons means that other countries who also have nuclear weapons won't use them against us unless they want to be blown to shit also. That is sorta like what people who have guns for protection do, if someone wants to break in and try to shoot me that is fine but if they do I have an equal footing to kill them also. Why do you think we are so against some countries gaining the knowledge on how to build nukes, some of it is we don't trust the countries to not use it, but a lot of it that having that knowledge means you have a say at the UN. Basically having a weapon is a tool that gives you power in certain situations. So enough of your pussy ass liberal shit. Anyways, I will write more after my movie is over, my cigarette breaks are turning into 5 minute essays.

[Exalt]

TO ALL OF YOU LIBERAL PUSSIES WHO HAVE DESTROYED OUR CONSTITUTION AND CONTINUE TO TRY TO TURN OUR ONCE GREAT COUNTRY INTO A COMMUNIST SHITFEST



"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson





"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson




The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.-Thomas Jefferson




"The constitutions of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves;
that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property and freedom
of the press." Thomas Jefferson




now shut the fuck up and move to china if you want to complain about guns o

[Sarien]

But the ideal of a free society is that it encourages its citizenry to reach for their full measure of happiness. Not simply the things they "need", but activities and possessions and lifestyles that are of value to each person's "pursuit of happiness".

Squeezer, please respond to the quoted passage.
Do you agree? Do you not agree?
And if you're wondering, what I expect the real answer to be is "Yes, I agree, however I feel that guns are too dangerous, and cause more societal evil than personal good." If that's the case, we'll cross that bridge when we get there, but I'm curious if you can understand this basic precept of a free society.

[Voth]

So wait, even though we go through the proper channels to legally buy, store, and operate a firearm, we're going to be left unarmed when black market guns are used against us? No. Squeezer, you're making it sound like people want to run around with their gun on the streets. People keep guns in their home for protection of themselves, their loved ones, and their property. We're not talking about walking into a bar and instead of getting in a fistfight, getting into a gunfight. This isn't the wild west and that's not why people want to be able to own guns. We want to own guns because that one time when your household is the one targeted for an armed robbery or other violent act, we want to be able to defend ourselves. We want criminals to think twice before choosing to rob the house because there could be an angry guy with a 12 gauge waiting on the other side of the door. Guns are a crime deterrent for most people. If we were to prohibit guns for the general public, people who buy guns off the black market then basically have run of the town to rob and kill... barring the police force, but by the time the police get called it can be too late and that is simply not acceptable.

[D1st0rt]

TO ALL OF YOU LIBERAL PUSSIES WHO HAVE DESTROYED OUR CONSTITUTION

Republicans destroying Constitution too. Patriot Act, etc

[Vykromond]

TO ALL OF YOU LIBERAL PUSSIES WHO HAVE DESTROYED OUR CONSTITUTION AND CONTINUE TO TRY TO TURN OUR ONCE GREAT COUNTRY INTO A COMMUNIST SHITFEST

yeah its for sure the liberals

[Exalt]

heres a few more for you...


What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?-Thomas Jefferson


I have a right to nothing which another has a right to take away. - Thomas Jefferson


Forty years ago, when the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised…to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually, by totally disusing and neglecting the militia - George Mason


Arms in the hands of citizens (may) be used at individual discretion…in private self-defense - John Adams

nd that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the right of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …or to prevent the people from petitioning , in a peaceable and orderly manner; or to subject the people to unreasonable searches and seizures of their persons, papers or possessions - Sam Adams

Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation.. (where) ..the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms - James Madison

To these (federal troops attempting to impose tyranny) would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands. - James Madison

To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them…” 1788 (Federal Farmer) - Richard Henry Lee

“No free government was ever founded, or ever preserved its liberty, without uniting the characters of the citizen and soldier in those destined for the defense of the state… Such are a well regulated militia, composed of the freeholders, citizens and husbandman, who take up arms to preserve their property, as individuals, and their rights as freemen. - Richard Henry Lee

O sir, we should have fine times, indeed, if, to punish tyrants, it were only sufficient to assemble the people! Your arms, wherewith you could defend yourselves, are gone…” (Elliot p.3:50-52, in Virginia Ratifying Convention demanding a guarantee of the right to bear arms.) - Patrick Henry

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed - Noah Webster, Federalist

Little more can reasonably be aimed at with respect to the people at large than to have them properly armed and equipped. - Alexander Hamilton




I can go on and on, but the majority of quotes here are from the writers of the declaration of independance and the signers of the constitution of the United States. If you disagree with any of these people then you are disagreeing with one of the main reasons this country even exists. Move back to Europe and shut the fuck up. Better yet, move to china or Cuba, and suck some dictator cock, because you sure don't want freedom as a citizen. You want to be ruled over and told what to do and have your freedom taken away by those in power.


Heres a little something to end this with:



Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety - Benjamin Franklin

[Exalt]

Republicans destroying Constitution too. Patriot Act, etc

I agree, but the right to bear arms is the basic right that we are granted as free people to oppose the government when it becomes an overlord instead of a government by the people for the people. This government is already heading that way with the way Bush and Obama have and continue to destroy the country. We are beyond broke, and things are going to get very very bad sooner then later.

I'll put it this way. Hurricane Katrina was a great example of how this country will become when the shit hits the fan. Riots everywhere, looters, etc. If you did not have a gun and was stuck in the middle of that shitstorm, you were fucked. This type of shit will happen, and maybe in our lifetimes.

[Galleleo]

feel much safer about robbing houses and stores cuz while they will always have guns

True, that is why in Europe your house gets robbed at least 3 times a month, but that is the bare minimum, most people get robbed like 2 times a week, cause hey, they got no guns and those damn criminals do. Damn illegal bastards.

[Epinephrine]

But the ideal of a free society is that it encourages its citizenry to reach for their full measure of happiness. Not simply the things they "need", but activities and possessions and lifestyles that are of value to each person's "pursuit of happiness". This is completely outside of the Second Amendment to the US constitution. It's a deeper issue.

I'll respond to you, since you make the most sensible arguments.

The idea that you can do anything if you makes you 'happy' is easily countered by the fact that there's tons of laws everywhere (and even in America) that specifically stop people from doing all sorts of things. You know, like it could make me really 'happy' to murder people, but hey it's illegal. Or in the measure of 'owning' things, it could also make me really 'happy' to own some nuclear weapons, but it's sort of illegal you know? At some point, you really cannot do anything you want to do, because what you are doing has direct effects on other people's rights.

There are other more abstract ways of looking at this, such as regulation of the chemicals that cause acid rain. It causes no direct effects on the area around you, but it does on forests hundreds and thousands of miles away, and as such these things are regulated. Society has given up a lot of 'rights to do anything they want' for the greater good. I believe that for many reasons, gun ownership should be one of these.

And here is the meat of it really. Just because you believe it ridiculous, doesn't mean that all people do. Just because you choose to live your life by your principles, why should I be forced to? Do you simply believe that your way is the only right way? With the freedom of choice you guarantee that each may live as they see fit, with the provision that should they cause harm to another they will be punished. When you remove that choice, you begin to oppress a section of your society, for the comfort (note: not safety, just comfort) of others. If you can't see that is wrong-headed and a horrible thing to start, then there's nothing on earth that will dissuade you from your vantage point. You win.

Where do I force you to live as I see fit? I'm not the one immigrating to your country or voting in your elections. I'm just stating my opinion on this message board. I think that you guys are crazy for loving guns so much and all believing that it's such a great idea that almost anyone can buy a gun anywhere they want. Anything from AK-47s to .50 calibre anti-helicopter sniper rifles. That I believe is completely ridiculous.

What Vatican was trying to point out. As well as Chairman Mao (While Mao did not institute Gun Control, there is absolutely zero question that an unarmed populace in the face of the reversal of the Hundred Flowers Campaign led to the large numbers of swiftly silenced dissidents) And Stalin Too. (Again, Stalin himself did not present Gun Control, but merely took advantage of the unarmed populace)

I think it's a silly argument, because really do you guys honestly think that the public ownership of guns is what's stopping America from going the way of Soviet Russia??!? Seriously!??! I mean hey, there's a ton of other democratic countries out there that exist just fine without having a ton of guns around, and haven't fallen to dictators as well.

Pointing out extreme examples of failed states that fell through revolution is kind of funny. If America were really so badly off that somehow the American military (of which consists soldiers and officers who believe in the ideals of the republic), the individual police forces and so on were all acting in concert with some dictator to force the general populace to become their slaves, then really your country has bigger problems. No amount of personal gun ownership of individual random people having guns under their pillow is going to save your country.

Because when you make it "harder to get guns", you don't make it "harder to get guns for the people committing your inner city violence", all you really accomplish is to make it harder for people that are willing to obey the law that says they cannot own firearms. Listen, Epi. You know that I'm not a kid, I'm 33 years old. It should be fairly obvious to most observers now that I am somewhat knowledgeable about firearms. Take this to heart: The people that are willing to go to a store, and fill out the paperwork to get a gun, are not the ones causing your society ill. It's the back alley deals, and illegal sales that are doing it. And you can't legalize that away, because it's already illegal. Enforcement is a viable option, but try putting emphasis on enforcement of illegally sold weapons when about 3/4 of a police budget is put forward towards a losing war on drugs.

Harder to get guns should be in my mind, impossible to get guns. There's no reason why normal people need to be owning such dangerous weapons.

Yes, there are responsible people who own guns. There are also people who can drink alcohol and drive perfectly fine too. There's also 10 year olds that can drive fine too. But that doesn't mean we should let it go on generally. There's waaay too many people who get killed by gun violence whether from accidental shootings at home (the most common reason), domestic violence (another very common reason), and criminals having easy access to guns that it's simply not worth it.

Go to a country where guns are illegal like say Japan, Hong Kong, etc and see how little gun violence there is. Criminals don't just magically all have weapons, they have to get it from somewhere. And when your country sells tens of millions of guns a year, when it's ridiculously easy to get a gun (hold up a gun-store and get 100 guns, steal some from someone's house when they're not home, etc), and when this overproduction of guns leads to a very low price for guns, it causes these things to be commonplace.

Kthx thinks that he really needs a gun to protect himself for an armed robbery. Like seriously? Where I'm from, I have basically NEVER heard of a single person who was held up at gunpoint or had armed people come into their house. It just doesn't happen... and you know why? Because it's actually much harder to get guns here than in America. And it's not like it's always been so either, when I was a kid they sold guns at department stores just like they do in the USA, and millions of people in Canada still own guns.

So yes, I quite strongly believe that even though it's a hobby that you obviously enjoy and perhaps you are extremely responsible with your weapons, I'd still rather no one be allowed to own guns then for guns to be commonplace.


As for those that keep quoting random founding fathers... well the constitution can change. Society can change. When America was founded, slavery was common place and now you have a black man as your president. I don't see any reason why the 'right to bear arms' is some unbreakable, unalienable right that must never be taken away.

[Exalt]

epi, you do not live in America so you do not know what this country is founded on, or really care for that matter. This country was founded because people have the inherit right to rule over themselves, and to be free, and have the right to oppose the government when it becomes more then a helpful hand to its citizens. You are used to chinese dictatorships, which is a complete opposite from all of what America was created for. You would never understand and don't need to understand, because you would rather be ruled over by your government then make decisions for yourself. You are just another sheep that gets brainwashed thinking its safer for no one to have guns then for someone to be able to defend themselves. That kind of argument is for the weak minded really, as it not only does not work, but it makes the ones who still HAVE the guns even stronger, and thus you are just another victim like the rest. I'm sure you prefer that with your weak mindset, but it is a bad philosophy and America does not want to "fall in line" with the rest of the world. We became the only superpower by setting the standard not following it.


Quit posting on a subject you clearly don't know about, nor should know about. You are the type of person who would be dangerous with a gun, because you are a pussy by nature, and do not defend yourself with any type of moxy. This is why you would never last in a war, or a fistfight, or anything else that involves defending yourself and defending others in the process. Go hide in your corner and hope your government will save you from that robber or that invading country or that big guy that picks on your all day at school and takes your lunch money.

People like you are the ones that do columbine school shootings and office shootings and mad rampages. People like you who do not defend themselves and depend on everyone else, only to realize responsibility lies on yourself, you are the exact type of people who go on murdering sprees. I am glad you do not own a gun, and I hope the rest of us never give up our rights just because people like you can feel a false sense of safety.

[Epinephrine]

Yes, I am used to the Chinese dictatorships that's why I live in Canada.... riiiiight.