Kennedy Health Care Reform Bill.

[Burnt]

Ok I don't know how much clearer I can make this.

Cash 4 Clunkers dealers haven't been paid STILL for the rebates they gave.

John Londoff Jr. and Shan Russell aren't complaining: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/...reimbursement/

Doctors and Hospitals refuse to accept that kind of insurance because they aren't getting money for it.

Do you not see where this fails?

I'm quite certain doctors and hospitals are being reimbursed by medicare (run by the government) or it wouldn't still be around.

[Squeezer]

Ok I don't know how much clearer I can make this.

Cash 4 Clunkers dealers haven't been paid STILL for the rebates they gave.

Car Dealerships are pissed and refuse to do programs like that with the government ever again because they are - money.

Nationalized Healthcare takes affect and hospitals and doctors aren't receiving payment from the government from the insurance.

Doctors and Hospitals refuse to accept that kind of insurance because they aren't getting money for it.

Do you not see where this fails?

Jesus Wark, at least talk to me like I'm not stupid. I can lay things out like you were a child too.

We are currently 10 trillion dollars in debt, most of it to lenders in China. As a nation we've had a federal deficit for all but 4 of the last 40 years, including the last 8 years where we recorded the largest consecutive budget shortfall in history.

We need to pay that back. Eventually the Chinese are going to want their money.

The only way to pay that back, again, as a nation, is to collect taxes.

The more bankruptcies the less people available to pay taxes. The less taxes we pay, the more our interest bites us in the ass and the more the US dollar continues to decline because there is no real value behind it, just a bunch of bankrupted assholes.

The longer we continue to let the health industry ravage the incomes of average Americans, the farther we get to paying our debt and the more vested we become in corporate/foreign interests over the needs of everyday people.

Purely in terms of economics alone the current healthcare system will continue to inhibit the American peoples' ability to repay our debt.

Since you decided to make it about the big picture.

As for Cash 4 Clunkers it's true that the paybacks haven't been immediate but just like all those loans we've taken out, the US govt. makes it a habit of paying back what it owes. If we didn't foreign companies would have never bought up our debt in the first place.

Besides Cash 4 Clunkers was a stupid idea to begin with.

[kthx]

People don't put a government in debt, a government that doesn't understand that money isn't infinite puts a government in debt. Government programs are the problem that is causing the national debt in the first place and this one would cause a much larger deficit than things like medicare and medicaid which already lose us money. If this is going to help people from declaring bankruptcy and paying more in taxes then why do the national debt projections keep rising from 9 to 10 to 11 trillion dollars by the end of Obama's Term. Obviously this isn't predicted to make the economy better. When the government says "it has to be competitive" it means it is going to be cheaper than all of the competition and the government can't go bankrupt while private companies can, when the private companies go out of business because they can't compete with a company with unlimited money and unemployment rates spike isn't that going to cause just as many bankruptcies as medical bills supposedly do in the first place?

[Izor]

What you're not understanding, again, is that the government wont be making any money off this option because while theyre collecting more in taxes, they'll be paying way more to make sure people get the level of healthcare promised by Obama, otherwise like all of us smart people say, we'll be getting bad healthcare

[saetep]

Also, aren't there 4 bills between the House and Senate? Or have they already been condensed into one bill? Because everyone here is just saying "this bill." Anyone actually know the difference between the bills? I'm assuming one is a Republican plan, one Democrat with the public option, and then two bipartisan approaches. But I'm not sure.

[Jerome Scuggs]

Jesus Wark, at least talk to me like I'm not stupid. I can lay things out like you were a child too.

We are currently 10 trillion dollars in debt, most of it to lenders in China. As a nation we've had a federal deficit for all but 4 of the last 40 years, including the last 8 years where we recorded the largest consecutive budget shortfall in history.

We need to pay that back. Eventually the Chinese are going to want their money.

The only way to pay that back, again, as a nation, is to collect taxes.

The more bankruptcies the less people available to pay taxes. The less taxes we pay, the more our interest bites us in the ass and the more the US dollar continues to decline because there is no real value behind it, just a bunch of bankrupted assholes.

The longer we continue to let the health industry ravage the incomes of average Americans, the farther we get to paying our debt and the more vested we become in corporate/foreign interests over the needs of everyday people.

Purely in terms of economics alone the current healthcare system will continue to inhibit the American peoples' ability to repay our debt.

Since you decided to make it about the big picture.

As for Cash 4 Clunkers it's true that the paybacks haven't been immediate but just like all those loans we've taken out, the US govt. makes it a habit of paying back what it owes. If we didn't foreign companies would have never bought up our debt in the first place.

Besides Cash 4 Clunkers was a stupid idea to begin with.

This is the part where I untwist and explain the terrible flaws in your economic thinking, e
but all that would accomplish is bitching about walls of text. Nevermind that any real economic analysis would require pages and pages of explanation.

[Jerome Scuggs]

Ps kthx and wark: seriously, if you guys had any inkling of the principles behind the criticism of socializing any industry, you guys would feel pretty hypocritical. Why healthcare now, but not bush's socialization of, say, the airlines? Subverting rights for any reason is subverting rights.

[Epinephrine]

Yah at least Jerome is consistent.

[Cops]

Medical Bills Leading Cause of Bankruptcy, Harvard Study Finds

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...tcy_study.html

Yeah, how stupid of those people to get sick. Or is it because they're lazy...I forget.

He's heartless, that is all it boils down to. I'm not sure how else someone can dismiss so many people by saying they need to simply get a job and stop being lazy. Life isn't always that simple, and for a lot of people the jobs they get don't provide them with enough income to afford insurance. The system is broken, and it's hurting those at the bottom, not those who dis the welfare system then still cash their girlfriend's checks.

I once met this guy awhile back at a party whose family passed away when he was 19, he was then given close to a million dollars from all the assets and life insurance his family left him. A good portion of that came from assets, not insurance. The guy then spent an hour explaining why inheritance is the worst possible thing, and how the state should collect 100% of what you own when you die. He said that this would encourage individuals to create their own success and not allow the future generations with rich families to have an edge over those who work harder. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this guy, in fact he almost got his ass beat down that night for opening his mouth too much, but what I do know is that people can believe what they want to believe, but don't preach your convictions then not stand by them.

Just for the record, that guy didn't donate a cent of his money to solve some of society's injustices as he called them. He spent his money on expensive import beer, a fancy car, and some crappy Italian shoes. Now that's all fine and dandy, but learn a bit of humility.

eat it

[Cops]

zzz

[kthx]

Ps kthx and wark: seriously, if you guys had any inkling of the principles behind the criticism of socializing any industry, you guys would feel pretty hypocritical. Why healthcare now, but not bush's socialization of, say, the airlines? Subverting rights for any reason is subverting rights.

Kthx/Wark We are the same person. And I will get into that tomorrow when it isn't 4am.

[Izor]

He's heartless, that is all it boils down to. I'm not sure how else someone can dismiss so many people by saying they need to simply get a job and stop being lazy. Life isn't always that simple, and for a lot of people the jobs they get don't provide them with enough income to afford insurance. The system is broken, and it's hurting those at the bottom, not those who dis the welfare system then still cash their girlfriend's checks.

I once met this guy awhile back at a party whose family passed away when he was 19, he was then given close to a million dollars from all the assets and life insurance his family left him. A good portion of that came from assets, not insurance. The guy then spent an hour explaining why inheritance is the worst possible thing, and how the state should collect 100% of what you own when you die. He said that this would encourage individuals to create their own success and not allow the future generations with rich families to have an edge over those who work harder. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this guy, in fact he almost got his ass beat down that night for opening his mouth too much, but what I do know is that people can believe what they want to believe, but don't preach your convictions then not stand by them.

Just for the record, that guy didn't donate a cent of his money to solve some of society's injustices as he called them. He spent his money on expensive import beer, a fancy car, and some crappy Italian shoes. Now that's all fine and dandy, but learn a bit of humility.

eat it

We've all had this discussion and you call it heartless but I dont want to see the national debt go up any more. I also am worried about the level of care people receive. If you truly received better care in Canada or in Europe then your hospitals would be at the top of any of those lists, cause they do such a good job.

Why would you ever want the state to collect all your assets when you die? Guy was clearly full of shit to begin with.

[Tone]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...r_Kennedy.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_172595.html (First Posted: 03- 6-09 02:51 PM)

-----

Isn't this hilarious that it is really that predictable, so now Pelosi and Byrd want to ram this shitty bill down our throats now that Kennedy is dead. You think you are on the side of whats best for America when shit like this is happening right this second? So they are just going to pass the bill even though it is statistically unpopular because it was his dream to see it happen? Pretty fucking shitty behavior, use a dead guys name to push an agenda people don't want, even if they have told you they don't want it. You liberals are truly fucking stupid if you think these dipshits are good for America.

PsyOps Disinformation to distract you from the quality and technology of the heath care - pretend that quality is not an issue, that cancer cures are not suppressed and just keep peoples minds focused on insurance and paperwork issues, cost issues. no matter how well its paid for it doesnt change the fact that all mental illness are treated like scum with no treatment, AIDS and Cancer and tons of other disease cures are hidden, and mainstream medicine tortures and kills millions to death.

Youll never hear that discussed, only how well the fraud can be paid for so the fraud is fully available to everyone.

[kthx]

How isn't he banned again yet?

[Summa]

PsyOps Disinformation to distract you from the quality and technology of the heath care - pretend that quality is not an issue, that cancer cures are not suppressed and just keep peoples minds focused on insurance and paperwork issues, cost issues. no matter how well its paid for it doesnt change the fact that all mental illness are treated like scum with no treatment, AIDS and Cancer and tons of other disease cures are hidden, and mainstream medicine tortures and kills millions to death.

Youll never hear that discussed, only how well the fraud can be paid for so the fraud is fully available to everyone.

this is actually fairly true...i watched a documentary...forgot the name...might go looking for it, and afterwords read some articles about the cures for cancer and AIDs. many top medical researchers openly stated that they could have a cure for AIDs in the next 5-10 years if sufficient funding was allotted. (cancer is a different story). they don't get the funding though. insurance companies don't want to see a cure for AIDs, because it will nerf their profits. in fact, they actually counter fund in some situations. what they would prefer is something that delays the effects so that the patient must keep coming back and buying over and over, rather than a cure-all treatment.

also wark said something about government spending not being able to stimulate an economy and raise us out of debt. please refer to FDR and the new deal. i think he kinda pulled us outta that one.