Democracy in the arab world?

[paradise!]

This. The 'entire surat' is 11 lines long and urges muslims to pray on friday - and then after prayer, they are free to do what they want. Refer to Galleleo's posted photo

you're forgetting prayer is round-the-clock dude. early fucking morning, mid-day, afternoon, sunset, after-sunset. the idea of prayer ending when you finish your wa-rahmetullah is topic of many khutba, and an idea spoken in other surahs. so this isn't the BEST argument I think.

[Veloce]

the protesters want democracy and representation...I'd be surprised to see the muslim brotherhood (they are what, a little under 20% of the population?) have an overpowering say in whatever new government comes about...that's not to say they wouldn't have a strong impact though.

[Jerome Scuggs]

is there some muslim deep-web where you get all these secret ideas i simply cant find

you're forgetting prayer is round-the-clock dude. early fucking morning, mid-day, afternoon, sunset, after-sunset. the idea of prayer ending when you finish your wa-rahmetullah is topic of many khutba, and an idea spoken in other surahs. so this isn't the BEST argument I think.

http://www.allaboutturkey.com/cuma.htm

This prayer of Friday is marked by these features:

1. Its time falls in the same times as that of the noon
2. It must be said in a congregation led by an Imam. No single person can offer it by himself.
3. If any person misses it, he cannot make up for it. Instead, he has to offer the noon prayer, the original prayer which this service normally replaces.
4. All kinds of normal work are allowed on Friday as on any other week day. For Muslims there is no Sabbath. They can carry on with their usual duties and activities provided they come to the congregational service in time. After the service is over, they may resume their mundane activities.
5. This Friday Prayer must be performed in a mosque, if there is one available. Otherwise, it may be said at any gathering place, e.g. homes, farms, parks, etc.
6. When the time for prayer comes, the Adhan (Ezan) is said. Then, four units of prayer are offered as Sunnah (Sunnet), individually, in a low voice as in the noon prayer. When this part is completed, the Imam stands up facing the audience and delivers his sermon (khutbah - hutbe) which is an essential part of the service. While the Imam is taking nobody should talk or pray; everyone present should take a sitting position and listen to the sermon quietly to the end.
7. The sermon (khutbah - hutbe) consists of two parts each beginning with words of praise of Allah and prayers of blessing for Prophet Muhammad. In the first part some Qur'anic passage must be recited and explained for the purpose of exhortation and admonition. At the end of the first part the Imam takes a short rest in the sitting posture, then stands up to deliver the second part of his sermon. General affairs of the Muslims may be discussed in either or both parts of the sermon. In the second part, especially, the Imam prays for the general welfare of all Muslims.
8. After that the Iqamah is made and the two obligatory units are offered under the leadership of the Imam who recites the Fatihah and the other Qur'anic passage in an audible voice. When this is done, the prayer is completed. After that two other Sunnah (Sunnet) units are offered individually in a low voice.

[Jerome Scuggs]

And there is consensus among the scholars on this point (that Jumu’ah is obligatory). But if a person for whom Jumu’ah is obligatory has a legitimate shar’i excuse – such as one who is directly responsible for a matter of national security and protecting the interests of the ummah, and he is required to do that job at the time of Jumu’ah, such as those who are in charge of security, traffic, wireless and telephone communications, etc, those whose shift happens to be at the time of the second call to Jumu’ah prayers or the time of a prayer in congregation – then such people are excused for not praying Jumu’ah or prayers in congregation, because of the general meaning of the verse (interpretation of the meaning):

“So keep your duty to Allaah and fear Him as much as you can”

[al-Taghaabun 64:16]

if your end-game was to make me go digging through these verses and learn more about islam, then you have definitely won this thread

[paradise!]

we're both learning from this so quitcha bitchin woman. me not as much as you, but i'm sifting through some surahs i haven't seen since elementary school.

not sure if you noticed this but you're quoting a website talking about the most secular islamic country in the world.

Go to Saudi you will see no business open on Friday. Go to Jordon you will see the same thing. It's depending on interpretation. Masr, as the birthplace of the muslim brotherhoo, is known as a religious country. And i've never seen Cairo at mid-day friday, but i urge you to youtube some videos about this. You will see everything stop.

"Whoever offered Fajr prayer in congregation, then sits remembering Allah till the sun rises, then offers two Rak'aa Nafl (voluntary) prayer, he will get a reward equal to that of performing a Hajj and Umrah complete, complete, complete."

this is just a single example.

look up salat al-nafl. the muslim brotherhood are crazy about getting into heaven after beating their wives all week, they will pray all day to make up for it. then they will pinpoint the most obscure hadith and beat their wives asses some more for having a hair hanging out during salah and deem it right.

and friday being a day where your prayer means 10x more, you do the math.

[Epinephrine]

I was under the impression that there WAS a huge protest on Friday... but hey I'm sure Paradise is right. :fear:

[paradise!]

I was under the impression that there WAS a huge protest on Friday... but hey I'm sure Paradise is right. :fear:

This is all fuzzy though dude remember, don't sound so official eh? An uprising of the ages, or more specifically an uprising to define the revolution going on in Cairo on a friday would break customary and societal law. Perfectly plausible to argue the opposite with a support like: "you are inflating the value of friday" and "it doesn't break customary law to the degree which you are thinking", but again this is gray area.

And Thanks for reading the thread Epinephrine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

please go act stupid in some other thread

[Epinephrine]

I did read the thread. Even in the line you quoted, you stated clearly that protesting on Friday would:

An uprising of the ages, or more specifically an uprising to define the revolution going on in Cairo on a friday would break customary and societal law.

Revolution doesn't just mean people killing other people. These protesters have generally been peaceful and it is still a revolution. Not only that, but the Christians are also protesting as well in Egypt.

And despite what you said, there was a huge protest on Friday, just as there was the Friday before... So I'm thinking that you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Tone]

why isn't there a thread about this already? shame on you.


discuss

(displaced will be active in this thread, as he loves the arab world ((and actually knows something about it))

You have been programmed to use the word democracy. The form of government the US has is a Constitutional Republic. A democracy is designed to give above 51% and below 100% of people freedom. A Republic is designed to give 100% of people freedom as sovereigns where majorities and minorities are able to do what they want. For example in a free republic, if a tiny minority of people would like to buy and smoke crack, the would then have the freedom to do that while the others have the freedom to not smoke crack. Currently there is no free republic on Earth, only some countries that lie and say they are a free republic.

Protests in countries lead to no change because whichever leader replaces a changed government will have the same laws as the old leader. The same illegal taxes, the same illegalizing drugs and other things, same medical care and benefits, the same unethical laws, the same MO and behaviors. So you are discussing change where none exists, a change of government in Egypt will be like the difference between Obama and Bush, nothing, nothing in your life changes.

A Protest and change of government is no different than the other thousand protests and changes in governments since biblical times. Theres no news here to discuss until there is real change.

[paradise!]

I did read the thread. Even in the line you quoted, you stated clearly that protesting on Friday would:



Revolution doesn't just mean people killing other people. These protesters have generally been peaceful and it is still a revolution. Not only that, but the Christians are also protesting as well in Egypt.

And despite what you said, there was a huge protest on Friday, just as there was the Friday before... So I'm thinking that you have no idea what you're talking about.

yeah you are completely right dude!!!!!

Epinephrine's really grasping at straws here. Who said anything about killing?

I would ask you if any of the characteristics of Jum'aa i described was wrong. But you don't know anything about Islam, so this point is moot. The importance of jumaa is self-evident in the qu'ran itself. The egyptians are the biggest hypocrites, attacking fellow muslimeen on an Eid while they preach shariaa.

The egyptians going ahead with the Friday protest does not invalidate the value of my argument. Muslims my family know don't even go to work on Friday and they are Doctors. If you can fit this inside your brain epinephrine, i'll break things down as simple as they can get. The imams who taught me, taught the importance of jumaah and it's value as a weekly Eid. That is a direct line from the Qu'ran. It is expected you don't even go to work on any Eid.

I have a feeling none of this getting through your head.

Oh hey epinephrine, let me tell you all about chinese culture, because you know i know a lot about what I read in my 5th grade social studies book about Confucius.

ok enough troll feeding.

[Jerome Scuggs]

a huge friday uprising would go against every islamic tenet possible.

And there is consensus among the scholars on this point (that Jumu’ah is obligatory). But if a person for whom Jumu’ah is obligatory has a legitimate shar’i excuse – such as one who is directly responsible for a matter of national security and protecting the interests of the ummah, and he is required to do that job at the time of Jumu’ah, such as those who are in charge of security, traffic, wireless and telephone communications, etc, those whose shift happens to be at the time of the second call to Jumu’ah prayers or the time of a prayer in congregation – then such people are excused for not praying Jumu’ah or prayers in congregation, because of the general meaning of the verse (interpretation of the meaning):

“So keep your duty to Allaah and fear Him as much as you can”

[al-Taghaabun 64:16]

I don't see why we are still arguing, paradise the muslims your family know might not work on fridays but i have a muslim who teaches my class on fridays, clearly there are variations and different interpretations (which you even state in one of your posts later). Your initial statement was wrong, and that's what this debate was about.

[Displaced]

Well, atleast this thread has taken off, but at some kind of weird tangent about Koran interpretation, p.s. having lived in Saudi, some businesses are open on Friday (essential businesses, but still, they aren't all closed.)

/On topic, apparently Hezbollah are raising their head in Egypt, Nasrallah seems to be very keen in getting a extremist puppet to run Egypt after Mubarak, will be interesting to see how the public responds.

There have also been some peaceful protests in Syria, which I don't think will escalate like they did in Tunisia/Egypt, but time will tell how Al Assad and his government deal with the general unrest in the region.

[paradise!]

I don't see why we are still arguing, paradise the muslims your family know might not work on fridays but i have a muslim who teaches my class on fridays, clearly there are variations and different interpretations (which you even state in one of your posts later). Your initial statement was wrong, and that's what this debate was about.

you mean you assume I don't qualify it, right? Or are we now listing our CV after every post we make?

Tenet was a little strong, although friday violence is highly discouraged it is not explicitly spoken about in the qu'ran. i dont have the shit memorized like I should, but i'll tell you this, friday is by and far the most important day of the week and a day you would expect the most devout muslims to be in masjid listening to khutba. although my arabic is limited to qu'ranic verses and simple conversations only, i remember reading hadiths on topics like this. friday is more significant than a day of rest, it's described as a rewarding day, a day where prayer means 10x more. google "significance of jum'ah prayer" and "kubta" or khutba or whatever

being the dashing young american youth that i am, I have of course not memorized the qu'ran and don't feel the need to. And I will also gladly say that I have not read all the extremist hadiths . But, only the few that matter.

it's a circle


edit: to disp: i'm actually surprised they weren't all closed. very interesting stuff.

[Epinephrine]

In other news I find it funny that the Iranians are denouncing Mubarak.

[Tigron-X]

Reminded me of the French Revolution when I first heard about it.