Pro-life or pro-choice?

[genocidal]

that was quite a tale dtf. i'm wondering if you had the couresty to snowbll the creampie (probably a better urban dictionary term for this) after you made the mistake.

[Welfare]

kill babies

[DoTheFandango]

Ok all joking aside.

I've actually had to get an abortion (well, go with a girl to get one).

I did listen to Paul Simon's Graceland while I waited in the car, and it wasn't because I love that album its because it's the only album that cheers me up when I listen to it 100% of the time. It was a sickening time of regret, second-guessing and all together anger and sadness.

My girlfriend (more a girl I was seeing, in actuality, which is part of the reason this happened) and I were irresponsible. We weren't planning, and like Bioture said we were really dumb. We were both in our early 20s, she was finishing college and moving to Korea to teach English afterwards, I was finishing my second year. We had a small discussion about the situation. I couldn't provide for her, she didn't see a future together past the summer, we both couldn't have our lives dedicated to a child at the moment. We had made a mistake, and I'll be the first to admit it, but it's not as simple as just putting it up for adoption or . Doctor's visits, family discussions, most likely her having to stay in the US, it was all too much for me to handle as an emotionally immature and a financially insecure frat boy. I let her make the decision, even though I told her where I stood. She made the choice, calmly as day, I drove her, comforted her, and stayed with her when she asked.

Our relationship was ruined though. Soon thereafter we lost touch, she moved and that was it. She's engaged now to a really cool dude, and I couldn't be happier for her. And I know she couldn't be happier. I think about it every day. It was a horrible horrible mistake that we made, but it's part of our lives now that has inevitably ended up for the best. I understand people that are pro-choice, and I understand people that are pro-life, but whatever someone is, you just have to respect it.

[T3l Ca7]

The reason why I am pro-choice is that I have faith in people making the right choice. The same reason why we trust drivers with cars, adults with guns (in some countries), alcohol and poison. We have the faith that the others will make the right choice.

By taking away those choices, we are literally saying that we (including you and I) can not be trusted that we need to be looked after by the nanny state.

I am pro-choice, because I have faith in humanity, that the majority of the adults are responsible and can make the right choice.

[the_paul]

Several of my friends are adopted and I dated an adopted girl for awhile. Every single one of them is fine. They were grateful that, for whatever reason, a responsible decision was made with their best interests in mind. You make it out to be much worse than they ever have.

[Supreme]

Yes. A typical human male aborts at least 10 times the human population (70 billion!) in babies during their lifetimes. Could be more if you work in the porn industry.

No no, I try

[Bioture]

Although out of curiosity, if your 15 year old daughter who is in high school gets pregnant, will you encourage her to go ahead and have the baby?

The realistic short answer is that my daughter would never be that stupid.

But as a hypothetical question, I would involve the father and his family. I'd tell my daughter that her life isn't over with a baby. So in essence, yes I would. If she was dumb enough to get into the situation and needs help getting out of it, we have to handle the situation responsibly. Which means sucking it up and dealing with it, instead of aborting the baby and calling it a day.

[T3l Ca7]

Look up how many abortions are had because of defects, danger to the mother, or in cases of rape and incest. Compare them to abortions because a woman does not want the responsibility of a child. Actually here, I'll do it for you. http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/poli...abreasons.html

Consider that I never said we should ban abortions across the board. I explicitly said I am both pro-choice and pro-life, but I am arguing this as a human rights issue. I never said abortions should not be accessible in very extreme circumstances, where there is incest, rape, or in cases where there are extreme health concerns. If you can't understand that I'm not taking the traditional, bible-thumping viewpoint, then my reasons are lost on you.

You should also consider the fact that since I am also pro-choice, I believe people SHOULD be able to choose. The problem is if we're making this a human rights issue, a baby cannot choose. In essence, you're saying that we should take away a baby's right to choose (not that it can in a coherent sense) so that a woman's right to choose is ultimate. Unfortunately, there are more idiots out there than not. If you can't choose to act responsibly, what right do you have to choose whether or not a baby lives or dies? The majority of abortions happen outside of wedlock because people CHOOSE to act irresponsibly.

How about this - I'll support your right to choose an abortion for an unwanted baby, if you can choose to be responsible?



Edit: I think my wife and I always thought that we would adopt our second or third child. My aunt-in-law has 5 adopted children (all of them with disabilities, either autism or crack baby) and is possibly the most amazing woman I know. All her kids as they grow up, cope with their disabilities. 4 of them are on their way to college.

The question isn't IF people are WILLING to adopt, they are. The question is whether or not the process can be done easily. Not everyone views a baby as a burden like you do.

I agree, people need to be responsible for their actions. I don't see babies as burdens, I see them as responsibilities - if you don't want get pregnant, don't have unprotected sex.

Although out of curiosity, if your 15 year old daughter who is in high school gets pregnant, will you encourage her to go ahead and have the baby?

[Bioture]

Yes. A typical human male aborts at least 10 times the human population (70 billion!) in babies during their lifetimes. Could be more if you work in the porn industry.

[Supreme]

Im just messing with you here for the most part but: if I jack-off am I not aborting several million little babies?!

[Bioture]

I think you take the liberty to assume that all unwanted pregnancies are a result of women's one night standard and indiscretions. I guess it never crossed your mind a couple could break up not knowing the woman was pregnant - dad does not want to pay the child support and mother can not afford to have the baby alone.

It also did not cross your mind that the baby could have birth defect(s).

Of course, it does not matter to you if the woman's health is endangered if the pregnancy is continued.

So when do you plan to have your first adoption?

Look up how many abortions are had because of defects, danger to the mother, or in cases of rape and incest. Compare them to abortions because a woman does not want the responsibility of a child. Actually here, I'll do it for you. http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/poli...abreasons.html

Consider that I never said we should ban abortions across the board. I explicitly said I am both pro-choice and pro-life, but I am arguing this as a human rights issue. I never said abortions should not be accessible in very extreme circumstances, where there is incest, rape, or in cases where there are extreme health concerns. If you can't understand that I'm not taking the traditional, bible-thumping viewpoint, then my reasons are lost on you.

You should also consider the fact that since I am also pro-choice, I believe people SHOULD be able to choose. The problem is if we're making this a human rights issue, a baby cannot choose. In essence, you're saying that we should take away a baby's right to choose (not that it can in a coherent sense) so that a woman's right to choose is ultimate. Unfortunately, there are more idiots out there than not. If you can't choose to act responsibly, what right do you have to choose whether or not a baby lives or dies? The majority of abortions happen outside of wedlock because people CHOOSE to act irresponsibly.

How about this - I'll support your right to choose an abortion for an unwanted baby, if you can choose to be responsible?



Edit: I think my wife and I always thought that we would adopt our second or third child. My aunt-in-law has 5 adopted children (all of them with disabilities, either autism or crack baby) and is possibly the most amazing woman I know. All her kids as they grow up, cope with their disabilities. 4 of them are on their way to college.

The question isn't IF people are WILLING to adopt, they are. The question is whether or not the process can be done easily. Not everyone views a baby as a burden like you do.

[T3l Ca7]

How about this: Educate yourself. Stop thinking that children are an inconvenience, because they're not. Stop believing that just because you have the right to an abortion, that you can act irresponsibly. Start thinking about how we can make the adoption process better - especially in the United States. Did you know it's easier to adopt overseas than it is to adopt stateside? How can we better the use of contraceptives, and better the education of our general populous? These are things we have to tackle. Not whether or not Roe v. Wade has any bearing on whether or not a fetus is a person. It has the potential to be, and that's enough to make it a serious human rights issue.

I think you take the liberty to assume that all unwanted pregnancies are a result of women's one night standard and indiscretions. I guess it never crossed your mind a couple could break up not knowing the woman was pregnant - dad does not want to pay the child support and mother can not afford to have the baby alone.

It also did not cross your mind that the baby could have birth defect(s).

Of course, it does not matter to you if the woman's health is endangered if the pregnancy is continued.

So when do you plan to have your first adoption?

I understand that foster homes and adoption agencies are not exactly ideal. But give me the choice between any option above, or not being born, and I'll take my chances on life anyday of the week.

Are you adopted? Do you know what is like to feel unwanted by your dad and unwanted by your mum, not knowing who your real parents are and moving from one foster home to another?

I sure hope you and Bioture will never have pets, you are the kind that think it is okay to keep your pet until it becomes a 'inconvenience', then dump it somewhere thinking there are always people who are willing to take your unwanted pet in.

There are nearly 7 billion people on this earth, thousands of children are starving to death everyday. There are plenty of children who need help. So don't make women who do not want to go through with pregnancies, go through them.

[gran guerrero]

If I knew what I was being born into I'd choose death

[the_paul]

Bioture has said it the best. More than any right to privacy, most people want abortions to continue being allowed because it is a get out of jail free card. It's just another way of avoiding the necessity of taking any sort of accountability for your actions. And worrying about the child's quality of life, and therefore choosing to deny your child life, is an absolute copout. There are so many options available. I know here in the United States they have various safe places, fire stations and what not, that anyone can drop off a baby within 3 (?) days and they take it from there, no questions asked. I understand that foster homes and adoption agencies are not exactly ideal. But give me the choice between any option above, or not being born, and I'll take my chances on life anyday of the week.

[gran guerrero]

keep fucking

better solution

enforce laws requiring people to have a license if they want a child