Discriminatory behavior regarding nationalities

[ZeUs!!]

Originally posted by Awesome
Yes it is, the ones who do something about it (*cough*, Me!) are hated for it and eventually get axed because of it.

No it isn't, staff would go around enforcing it if it was their job to. If it wasn't and they went around telling people off for something they didn't deem illegal then thats where the issues arise

[Vantage]

didnt u elect regan? regan was elected w/o contreversy...

Anyways..bush went into iraq under the claim that iraq and WOMD... According to bush, they found evidence of weapons.. WHY DONT THEY USE THIS EVIDENCE TO FIND THE WEAPONS? There was no justification.

Americans have always been asertive and like entering affairs of countries. I.e. China and Taiwan. The Americans sold weapons to Taiwan. Do they not know what it felt like when Cuba split? So what if Taiwan is democratic... its part of China.. u have no right to interfere.. Etc. American governments have a history of fucking up. The government u elect.

[foobarz]

Zeus, you do make some good points--but what I am suggesting seems to me as a clarification, or at most a minor extension of current policy. The question isn't whether or not to allow "free speech" on TW--it has already been decided that certain types of hate speech are not allowed. I am simply noting what would seem to be a natural extension of that, as the rules already ban "discrimination, racism, ... or anything related" as well as "excessive and deliberate verbal harassment."

And I do not think that this would "ban half of our current playerbase"--I doubt there are many more people who advocate nuking countries or killing civilians of a certain nationality than there are people who are racist. It's the same general category.

As for the people saying that "staff is corrupt" -- they are a small minority of TW, and they are only noticed because they are so noisy and persistant. Even as such, this might be solved through better documentation. For instance, if you're going to ban someone, you could take a screenshot or log of what occurs. This is extra work but it could also justify banning people for longer periods of time so that they actually follow rules.

[foobarz]

Phrozen, you miss my point. I am making a distinction between our government and the people.

First off, it's impossible to predict how politicians will act when they're in office. When he was running for President, George Bush said "United States must be humble and must be proud and confident of our values, but humble in how we treat nations that are figuring out how to chart their own course." That obviously isn't how he has carried out foreign policy, but it's what he promised before he was elected.

Second, even our leaders are elected, there are usually sizable minorities that voted against them, or in George Bush's case a plurality. If you have 280,000,000 people it's going to be impossible to get all of them to agree on sometime.

So what I'm saying is this--disagree with America's foreign policies if you will, and disagree with America's leaders if you want, but realize this: leaders do not speak for everyone, and while some people might support them, there often are many others who disagree. So you can be angry or annoyed at the people who voted for Bush, but you can't hold anything against Americans in general, as this category includes the many people who voted against him or were too young to vote or took him at his word when he said "if we're a humble nation, they'll respect us as an honorable nation."

[Mr. Peanuts]

There is no need for racism. I dont get why people are racist.
You can speak freely without the need for racist remarks.

But as long as there are distinct differences in things like opinions, social statuses, religion etc society will continue to be racially inequal.

Racism is inevitable i'm afraid.

[WherzWaldo???]

Originally posted by foobarz
First off, it's impossible to predict how politicians will act when they're in office. When he was running for President, George Bush said "United States must be humble and must be proud and confident of our values, but humble in how we treat nations that are figuring out how to chart their own course." That obviously isn't how he has carried out foreign policy, but it's what he promised before he was elected.

Two things:

1. That was before 9/11. When the attacks happened, a lot of things changed and all bets were off.

2. It is a fact that the Husseins single-handedly sent Iraq down the shitter with their leadership. He was considered a repeat violator in the eyes of the US and UN, but the UN didn't have the cojones to do anything about him. Bill Clinton sat in the oval office for 8 years twiddling his thumbs about Hussein AND Bin Laden. SOMETHING had to be done after 9/11.

As for the WMD argument, I agree that it was a flawed argument - I don't know whether intelligence was bad or what - but either way, I'm glad we went in there.

Second, even our leaders are elected, there are usually sizable minorities that voted against them, or in George Bush's case a plurality. If you have 280,000,000 people it's going to be impossible to get all of them to agree on sometime.

Well, no shit.

Sounds to me like you're setting up another "Bush didn't win the popular vote" argument. To that I say, go read the United States Constitution.

And since you brought up minorities, consider this: according to immigration rates and census data, Hispanic people will be the majority in Texas by the year 2006. Would that make caucasians a recognized minority? Since Hispanics largely vote Democratic, will you then whine on behalf of the white people in Texas if a Republican candidate gets more white votes but a Democrat wins instead? Frankly, I think not.

So what I'm saying is this--disagree with America's foreign policies if you will, and disagree with America's leaders if you want, but realize this: leaders do not speak for everyone, and while some people might support them, there often are many others who disagree. So you can be angry or annoyed at the people who voted for Bush, but you can't hold anything against Americans in general, as this category includes the many people who voted against him or were too young to vote or took him at his word when he said "if we're a humble nation, they'll respect us as an honorable nation."

Like it or not, our government is representative of our people, so there will always be little or no distinction between the two to an outsider. Personally, I think this is a good thing.

Anyway, to bring this post back on the real topic of the thread, I don't see any reason why hateful messages against any country or nationality should be allowed. If Trench Wars is trying to establish a racism-free environment, which appears to be its goal, then there should be zero tolerance for serious offenders. Of course, it can be a slippery slope. There's a difference between one guy cracking a harmless joke and some diarrhea-of-the-mouth radical spewing vitriolic messages with spinsanity-like motivation. However, I'd like to think that the staff would be mature enough to recognize that difference. If they aren't, then maybe TW should get some staffers who are.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Originally posted by WherzWaldo???
2. It is a fact that the Husseins single-handedly sent Iraq down the shitter with their leadership. He was considered a repeat violator in the eyes of the US and UN, but the UN didn't have the cojones to do anything about him. Bill Clinton sat in the oval office for 8 years twiddling his thumbs about Hussein AND Bin Laden. SOMETHING had to be done after 9/11.

Sorry, had to chime in here. First off, it would've been better if the US government hadn't backed Saddam during the Iran/Iraq war. If Saddam "single-handedly sent Iraq down the shitter," then the US government was full party to the plumbing.

Second, it's not like GWB did anything super-patriotic or country-loving after 9/11. Sure "SOMETHING had to be done". It was called Afghanistan. And we didn't even do that right. We still haven't put hardly any work into restoring the infrastructure of that country, even though we swore up and down before we went in that everything was gonna be peaches and sunshine by the time we left. Shenanigans, I say. Pure rhetorical bullshit.

And you've gotta be fucking kidding me if you think that GWB "acted where Clinton was twiddling his thumbs". Comon. You really think that if 9/11 magically didn't happen that GWB would still be on this warmongering crusade? Fuck no. You think that if 9/11 had happened on Clinton's watch that he would've just said "Oops, that sucks. Oh well, back to twiddlin' these here thumbs!" Fuck no. Am I supposed to be clapping and cheering because Bush didn't return to the fetal position when it all happened? Fuck no. Anybody would've had the same response, it's not like Bush did fucking anything before he was presented with the problem on his doorstep.

I support our troops, but the Iraq operation was (and still is) fucking retarded. We might as well have invaded Belgium.

[ZeUs!!]

Originally posted by WherzWaldo???
Sounds to me like you're setting up another "Bush didn't win the popular vote" argument. To that I say, go read the United States Constitution.

And since you brought up minorities, consider this: according to immigration rates and census data, Hispanic people will be the majority in Texas by the year 2006. Would that make caucasians a recognized minority? Since Hispanics largely vote Democratic, will you then whine on behalf of the white people in Texas if a Republican candidate gets more white votes but a Democrat wins instead? Frankly, I think not.

Like it or not, our government is representative of our people, so there will always be little or no distinction between the two to an outsider. Personally, I think this is a good thing.

Bush won dick all votes, Al Gore got more votes at the last election. However Bush's cousin's friends blah blah was the governer of Florida or something and barred all black people from voting. Opinion polls showed that 97% of these people would of voted Gore, therefore handing him the state and the election. Black people with a totally clean criminal recrd were forcably prevented from voting in Florida to such as extent that the woman who arranged the whole thing - Condoleeza Rice - was stopped from voting herself.

[Jerome Scuggs]

you're kidding..thats legal?

[ZeUs!!]

Nopers, I'll quote the book when I get back to uni I'm just going from memory atm

[Ephemeral]

Geo-political topic in staff forum?

[Vantage]

Jeb is GWB's bro... It was the greatest present ever... the State of Florida. Read some Michael Moore books.. I dont agree with everything he says but some of it makes sense. In the book he noted how after 9/11 lighters weren't banned because tobacco companies felt that passengers needed that smoke after a flight. Anyways.

[genocidal]

Originally posted by Vantage
Jeb is GWB's bro... It was the greatest present ever... the State of Florida. Read some Michael Moore books.. I dont agree with everything he says but some of it makes sense. In the book he noted how after 9/11 lighters weren't banned because tobacco companies felt that passengers needed that smoke after a flight. Anyways.

k nobody is getting this right so i'll say it.

katherine harris was the secretary of state under jeb bush in florida (she is now in the house of represenatives i believe). when all the turmoil came about over the recount in florida, jeb put her in charge of recounting the votes. there is evidence that in south florida she applied a few laws further than they were supposed to be applied. for example, instead of discounting votes by african-americans who had felony records she also discounted the african-americans who had misdemeanor records. and we're talking about fucking car tickets here. katherine harris also cut some other corners that i can't recall right now to get the count to sway for bush since she was in fact working for a bush. fuck katherine harris, fuck my state (florida, fuck jeb bush, and fuck george w. bush.

and i'm not making shit up, you guys can go look it up if you want. there's our democracy for you .

[Ephemeral]

Move this to General, Useless or Trash? (unless the TW staff is now resolving US and world political issues).

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Moved to General Discussion. - Conc