Trench Wars Holiday Donation Drive

[Efhat]

I?ll donate too

[Efhat]

Hi myth
luv u

[Falconeer]

Some folks were discussing options last night about the cost of the bot server. Looking at shrinking the size of the Linode. Probably doable, with a bit of work. It'll require some serious drive cleanup, scaling back from 6 CPUs to 4, and giving up 8GB of RAM. As long as we keep on the memory leaks I think we can function with 8. There may also be some redundant services running that we can trim back. Will be talking to dev folks more about this.

So, good news! If successful, we can move to a $40/mo plan + $10/mo backups, effectively doubling our time left.

I'm a head sysop and also a dev. I'm not a sysop "in order to dev," in other words. That means I supervise the upper staff team and to a smaller extent the Dean of Staff. Did devwork as an SMod for something like 12 years off and on, headed up TWDev a few years, was the TWCore maintainer, started the now-defunct beta testing group, and occupied positions in a few ill-fated attempts at TW democracy, such as "Arbiter of Discourse" (LOL! Sounds really pompous ... DoCk>'s idea, not mine) and TW Council moderator. Bottom line: the two don't really overlap. They're two different jobs, and I take both fairly seriously.

I'll have you know I have over 600 confirmed ki-- er, bot commits in since the start of 2018, so you can drop trying bait me about not developing. In fairness, many are small, such as minor bugfixes. But I've hardly been slacking.

I'm not baiting you, i was seriously asking the last time you developed anything major. A 10 minute job on a bot is just maintenance work? Tiny projects are great, they all add up in the end... but there are actually big projects you could be working on instead; like centralizing all the websites, making or heading a project to make a league site that handles every zones leagues, and transforming the trench wars site into a SUBSPACE wide site.. complete with a download for the game/explanation of the game and different zones, where people who click the trench wars button get re-directed to the trench wars site etc. You could have been working on what you just stated - making things more efficient so you require less donation money to keep things running. In other words I was correct in thinking critical and asking for more transparency. You could be devving the discord, that's actually a project that takes three days to make the discord 3x better than what it is currently etc. You could be taking steps to move to AS3... imo too, and become more self-sufficient and pave the path for moderation options that don't require many moderators.

Well in your eyes sysop is for that reason, but to me that level of access should prioritize merit and ability to help - either time-wise, by getting people more involved and more inclusive in leagues... or by actually developing; maps, tiles, lvzs, or code/websites. I don't really consider moderation as part of a reason for someone requiring sysop because DEVELOPMENT is what curbs trolls and enables an atmosphere that requires little moderation. If you were on an AS3 server and had an active development team, you'd have 10 times less issues than you have today with "trolls" or people. Look at hockey zone, it's essentially a zone with zero rules, and no rules on racism, and what do people do there? Do they spend time sitting in spec and trolling? or do they play the game and don't really want to bother with typing. That's what happens when something is a) interesting b) fun c) had proper attention given to it either through time or development.

Not to mention there are at least 2/3 zones that need outsourced development help. It's time we drop nationalism by zone, and start thinking of subspace as a global game that we need to elevate across the board. If people come to our game and see a bunch of shitty zones and 1 good developed zone, they won't be impressed. We need to treat the main zones as our baby, because they represent the best of different gameplays: Hockey zone is a no brainer, it's sports related, it's essentially the gateway zone into subspace as a whole. You can find so many people interested in sports/hockey and bring them to subspace just with that hook. DSB should be taken care of as a themed zone, with a wear them down type of gameplay, SVS is the original settings, EG is dumb but I guess I have to include it in this list. Etc.

[qan]

Some folks were discussing options last night about the cost of the bot server. Looking at shrinking the size of the Linode. Probably doable, with a bit of work. It'll require some serious drive cleanup, scaling back from 6 CPUs to 4, and giving up 8GB of RAM. As long as we keep on the memory leaks I think we can function with 8. There may also be some redundant services running that we can trim back. Will be talking to dev folks more about this.

So, good news! If successful, we can move to a $40/mo plan + $10/mo backups, effectively doubling our time left.

But you're essentially a sysop to dev, not to play moderator and police and judge people. When was the last time you deved anything? Beginning of this year? If moving the website/bot hosting brings the cost to half price you're already making big improvements.

I'm a head sysop and also a dev. I'm not a sysop "in order to dev," in other words. That means I supervise the upper staff team and to a smaller extent the Dean of Staff. Did devwork as an SMod for something like 12 years off and on, headed up TWDev a few years, was the TWCore maintainer, started the now-defunct beta testing group, and occupied positions in a few ill-fated attempts at TW democracy, such as "Arbiter of Discourse" (LOL! Sounds really pompous ... DoCk>'s idea, not mine) and TW Council moderator. Bottom line: the two don't really overlap. They're two different jobs, and I take both fairly seriously.

I'll have you know I have over 600 confirmed ki-- er, bot commits in since the start of 2018, so you can drop trying bait me about not developing. In fairness, many are small, such as minor bugfixes. But I've hardly been slacking.

[Falconeer]

I'm gonna guess brain damage. Think he got caught in the shrapnel from one of his enormous logic bombs he dropped back in dsb.

Cry more maybe your tears will kill me, i'll drown in them. Maybe after 20 years you can achieve a ban, zone wide and forum wide and discord wide.

Bring forum rules like grasps want, I'm actually not against it in the slightest. Lets see who lasts under a rule system. It won't be you because your personal dislike informs all your posts. Whereas I debate ideas. The only thing rules would change is I would ignore kthnx posts, and watch him get banned. And I would edit out/not include swear words in my posts, so you achieve a nicer version of the same thing i'm posting. Big change.

[Mythril]

What's up mythril, why is that guy such a faggot?

I'm gonna guess brain damage. Think he got caught in the shrapnel from one of his enormous logic bombs he dropped back in dsb.

[mtine]

There are 3 trolls in this thread, altho I might be mistaken and Grasps is actualy Falconeer. Who knows.

PS. Ixa, if you learn how to read, then you wouldn't be making such dumb posts as you do. You are starting to remind me of wicket666. Not a good direction to be going, mate.

[Falconeer]

What's up mythril, why is that guy such a faggot?

When you gonna suck my dick? I'm waiting.

[Falconeer]

This is why I don't bother engaging you and why kthx only needs to call you a faggot when you spam your embarrassing rambling. Look at how disorganized and incoherent your mind is. Read this paragraph you posted.

What the fuck are you talking about? There is no logic in this whatsoever. I'm literally just examining one paragraph out of the 4,000 you've written. They all impressively fail the test of reason and objectivity that you claim you love so much. Let's follow the sacred text written by the logic god himself:

Who said anything about reason or logic or being a logic god? I said I'm the troll god. Secondly, my main point was that i don't actually come on the forums to insult and attack people. Every thread i post in i am going over some idea; some of the ideas i've debated on the forums so far 1) transparency when asking for money/donations 2) how to moderate properly, 3) why it's good to let people develop for the zone etc. I don't just go insulting people and derailing thread topics because i dislike the person. This is partly because unlike you guys i actually don't dislike anyone. You shit on me and I shit on you back, i take things on a case by case basis, if you want to act nice I'll act nice back and so on ad infinitum.

I believe this is a yes or no question, and I'm not entirely sure where you're gonna go with this. An interesting opening setup for sure. I honestly don't know the answer to the question though. I know he has been a squad cap in the past.. not so sure now man, I haven't been too active.

Yeah it was a question, and it can be answered with yes or no.

Really? There's only two kinds of squad captains? But can't anyone literally just sign up and become a squad captain? Out of the 200 captains I've had, their complex personalities, gaps in skill level, knowledge, experience, social understanding, different ages... there were really only two kinds of them? Seems slightly simplistic but you're the logic god so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Wait, did we figure out if grasps was a squad captain or not? Fuck it, never mind. Keep going.

It's a generalization of the various captains I met, they all have chips on their shoulder; be it from hockey zone, choas/proleague zone, or trench wars. There are exceptions, people who make squads not to feel self important but to actually help the game/zone, and not brag about how skilled they are or competent they are for fielding players. Generally subspace is full of assholes, like you! Why cry if 2ez? Why are you mad? Is it because I'm a better asshole than you are? Do you really want to be the best asshole in the game?

Whoa man slow the fuck down here. Take it easy for a sec while this next level logic detonates in my fucking brain.... Fuck ok you lost me. Aren't we doing just a little bit of mind reading with this equation? I'm on board if you wanna tell me some narcissists have been squad caps, that's a certainty. But what does this have to do with grasps being a squad captain? If we answered the question, would we even know which one of the two squad captains he is? Wait this is only the 2nd sentence of the paragaph? I have to get back to work soon. Ok I checked the website. Grasps is not a squad captain.

You know why I asked if he's a captain? Because unlike the majority of people I don't assume shit about others. Whether he's captain or not doesn't actually make a difference to the point i made about captains either being good or bad in personality, and the criteria i listed for that.

[kthx]

What's up mythril, why is that guy such a faggot?

[Mythril]

Grasps is a squad captain? you have two types of squad captains, the good ones, and then the entitled pieces of shits who think they did so much for the game it needs to be remade in their image, and they start treating zones like their squads, and threaten people with quitting leagues if someone they don't like isn't banned. A lot of asshole captains exist like that in Pro League... aka "AML League" zone. SVS noob settings, saiyan is a dsber and he went there and became top player in 1 week. That's how noob that zone is.

This is why I don't bother engaging you and why kthx only needs to call you a faggot when you spam your embarrassing rambling. Look at how disorganized and incoherent your mind is. Read this paragraph you posted.

What the fuck are you talking about? There is no logic in this whatsoever. I'm literally just examining one paragraph out of the 4,000 you've written. They all impressively fail the test of reason and objectivity that you claim you love so much. Let's follow the sacred text written by the logic god himself:

Grasps is a squad captain?

I believe this is a yes or no question, and I'm not entirely sure where you're gonna go with this. An interesting opening setup for sure. I honestly don't know the answer to the question though. I know he has been a squad cap in the past.. not so sure now man, I haven't been too active.

you have two types of squad captains

Really? There's only two kinds of squad captains? But can't anyone literally just sign up and become a squad captain? Out of the 200 captains I've had, their complex personalities, gaps in skill level, knowledge, experience, social understanding, different ages... there were really only two kinds of them? Seems slightly simplistic but you're the logic god so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Wait, did we figure out if grasps was a squad captain or not? Fuck it, never mind. Keep going.

the good ones, and then the entitled pieces of shits who think they did so much for the game it needs to be remade in their image, and they start treating zones like their squads, and threaten people with quitting leagues if someone they don't like isn't banned.

Whoa man slow the fuck down here. Take it easy for a sec while this next level logic detonates in my fucking brain.... Fuck ok you lost me. Aren't we doing just a little bit of mind reading with this equation? I'm on board if you wanna tell me some narcissists have been squad caps, that's a certainty. But what does this have to do with grasps being a squad captain? If we answered the question, would we even know which one of the two squad captains he is? Wait this is only the 2nd sentence of the paragaph? I have to get back to work soon..

A lot of asshole captains exist like that in Pro League... aka "AML League" zone.

Ok I checked the website. Grasps is not a squad captain.

SVS noob settings, saiyan is a dsber and he went there and became top player in 1 week.

Dude, seriously, where the fuck are we right now? I tried to follow the line of logic beginning at A2 in trench wars and I'm now at Z46 in a completely different zone. Only the logic god could have accomplished this in a single paragraph. Ok, you've been building up this argument. I'm kinda lost to be honest but you're the logic god. I can't wait for the conclusion. Bring it home and blow my fucking mind. Grasps is about to get obliterated by a logic bomb and I can't wait to see it for myself.

That's how noob that zone is.

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[Falconeer]

Shutup faggot

Come suck my dick please?

I'll pay 20 bucks a month for a year if you can ban Falconeer, Wiibimbo and Jessup from forums. 30 a month for a year if you netban them from game. I am sure others would be down to join me in this endeavor as well. You'll never get a penny from any one of them and they are only good for keeping people from playing this game or engaging on the forums.

You realize on forums it's actually trolling/being an asshole to insult people instead of talk about ideas. I'm the troll god and I'm bringing up issues/ideas. You are the asshole attacking people. In a forum with rules you would be banned, and I would just reword my ideas without swear words. Keep that in mind dick face who throws stones but does the same if not worse shit than me.

Fucking tyrant.

Also I was netbanned for text before. Look what that achieved. Nothing. I unbanned three times, and then polix gave up and shut down subspace forums and retired.

P.S. You assume a lot and know nothing about what i've done for the game. The only way you could know me slightly is if you're a smurf from devastation/DSB in which case you have some retarded personal vendetta like all tyrants would. Keep hiding. Scum.

Also hypothetically if you never get a penny from us, that doesn't mean my ideas on being transparent with donations are wrong. My willingness to donate has very little to do with it. However if i knew exactly where my money was going and there was great NEED then i would probably donate. You realize I bought $70 website hosting so I can rebuild DSB website? What a dumb fucker, judging others with no facts. Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups.

P.S.S i hope staff adopts a policy of pay monthly to keep someone off the forums. Someone is always richer than you, and the same shit will happen to you. You'll pay $20 to keep me off, and someone will pay $50 monthly to keep you off. If they'd pay $10 then the admin would say no dice because grasps currently donates $20 so we'd be losing $10.. if you can't top $50 you'd stay banned. Let capitalism decide who stays. I want to enjoy the show and see how long grasps lasts.

Grasps is a squad captain? you have two types of squad captains, the good ones, and then the entitled pieces of shits who think they did so much for the game it needs to be remade in their image, and they start treating zones like their squads, and threaten people with quitting leagues if someone they don't like isn't banned. A lot of asshole captains exist like that in Pro League... aka "AML League" zone. SVS noob settings, saiyan is a dsber and he went there and became top player in 1 week. That's how noob that zone is.

[Jessup]

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Thanks for the laugh....

[Grasps]

I'll pay 20 bucks a month for a year if you can ban Falconeer, Wiibimbo and Jessup from forums. 30 a month for a year if you netban them from game. I am sure others would be down to join me in this endeavor as well. You'll never get a penny from any one of them and they are only good for keeping people from playing this game or engaging on the forums.

Merry Christmas Qan, thanks for letting us know about the state this game is in before it became a serious issue. Well.. more serious issue. Also, have dead zones been cutoff? EG for instance? Or are they using basic functionality already (ie. pre-robobot)? Cheers.

-grasps aka ixa

PS: I'll donate regardless after the rest of my holiday expenses have been accounted for later this month, I'd love to drop at least 100 but more is my goal. Oh and who is in charge of taking care of donations? I don't want 24 near my money! lol

[kthx]

What I'm getting at is why not just lay out the costs, and link the prices and host?

The public/donors should want to know
1. The websites being supported: so they can decide if ALL these websites are necessary and if they can be centralized on 1 site.
2. The minimum amount of space required to support everything: 2 gigs? 5 gigs? 10 gigs? (remember this is a game from 1996, why would you need 100 gigs?)
3. If any type of server speed is required/desirable... and then for what? It's not zone hosting...

You SHOULD also when you have time, take the time to write up or explain the work involved in *high* detail to move everything to a new host. What type of features are being used? How was the website made? In a text editor? using Cpanel? Using a website building program? Using an offline program? Would a transfer be done through FTP work only? Do we really want antiquated/complex systems for running sites... why? to keep the high end programmers as the people we have to rely on? Isn't it just way easier and more versatile to use cpanel? Yes or No and why? Like come on... so many years, and zero transparency.

Stop treating people like children, idiots, or criminals. People are capable of seeing logical well thought out points, and then possibly agreeing with you and accepting that it is tough to move everything and maybe the costs are worth it... but with zero information i'm not just going to take your word for it.

imo this info should have been written up long ago and left as a link on the donation page

Shutup faggot