More Bullying Game Staff Misogynistic Tyranical Game Staff - Is This Really 2019?

[A fem bot]

This immature staff person replied to me through my personal email writing without even caring to sign his/her email:

A few points:
- If you already have active warnings on record, you will not receive a new warning before being silenced for the same offense.
- However, you will receive a warning in PM. And, moderators will often attempt to communicate with you. However, if you have them on ?ignore, you waive your right to receive this warning.
- You're on special watch by the moderation staff for constant game disruption, and you will be dealt with more swiftly and also more generally than someone with no past record as a result.


This was one case out of many where you're simply spamming insults and adding nothing of value to the game, and indeed, taking down the quality of the game and the chat. In other places you were making thinly-veiled racist comments.

You're a bit of a toxic personality, in other words. Not a great influence on the game overall. But we're stuck with you, and we still want to try to handle your childish outbursts fairly. In this case I don't think the mod team overstepped their bounds.

Note that senior moderators are interpreting our rules about hate speech, discrimination and harassment somewhat more broadly than in recent past, due to a large number of complaints about the increasing toxicity of pub chat.

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There was not a single racist comment that I had made. For all the 20 years I've played this not one single player ever was warned or banned for sexist hate talk, though I did report it. This is clearly misogynistic bullying.

I have seen worse banter going on for years in public chat and personally. Yet these staffers take it upon themselves to single me out, anonymously. This is clearly abusive bullying behavior.

This "staff" person who wishes to remain anonymous and did not sign any one of his/her emails is obviously in the wrong since he/she did not sign their responses.

The person I was yelling at was refusing to duel. Aliser: v2k, Bohemond is a faggot troll from Extreme Games who evades my ignores by trolling me with new aliases.

This "staff" person is also lying because I did not receive any private message. These staffers are bullies and misogynistic. Lying and bullying. There was no PM received as "staff" person mentioned.
She/he is making an assumption that I had anyone on ignore. Which I did not. Therefore, this staff person is threatening with abusive tyrannical bullying behavior.


This constant bullying and harassment from staff is indication why so many players have left this game. I have contributed to this zone for almost 20 years and have volunteered to staff 5 separate occasions.

[kthx]

shutup cunt

[qan]

Hi, sorry if it wasn't clear before, but that was me. I was under the impression you were aware of that.

Sorry you didn't receive a reply you were happy with. Currently you seem to be moving in a cycle where you engage in awful behavior and then post to forums to let everyone know how unfairly you've been treated when you're punished for it.

Not really sure how this fits into a framework of misogyny. You've lately developed a talent for being viciously abusive to others, and using race, gender and sexual preference to belittle others. In other words, you seem to have nurtured a real dedication to treating people poorly. Our mod staff has responded to it accordingly.

Recently you claimed to have started the trend of getting people to ignore others, so I'm a little doubtful you don't have anyone on ignore. (I've also been told by multiple moderators that you rarely respond when they attempt to contact you.) If you don't have anyone on ignore, then you may simply have missed the mod's PMs. I'll double check to make sure the mod did indeed PM you, and if not, will make sure that they do so in the future.

Regarding this:
>This constant bullying and harassment from staff is indication why so many players have left this game.
I'd counter with: this constant bullying and harassment from people like yourself is an indication as to why some players have left this game. You're unquestionably a bully. Which makes it all the more confusing that you're attempting to paint this as staff somehow bullying you. I think all things considered staff have been fairly patient with you.

If you feel that others are not being treated as harshly for the same kinds of issues, please report them, and if you like, compile the results of the moderation actions (or lack thereof).

[A fem bot]

Hi, sorry if it wasn't clear before, but that was me. I was under the impression you were aware of that.

Sorry you didn't receive a reply you were happy with. Currently you seem to be moving in a cycle where you engage in awful behavior and then post to forums to let everyone know how unfairly you've been treated when you're punished for it.

Not really sure how this fits into a framework of misogyny. You've lately developed a talent for being viciously abusive to others, and using race, gender and sexual preference to belittle others. In other words, you seem to have nurtured a real dedication to treating people poorly. Our mod staff has responded to it accordingly.

Recently you claimed to have started the trend of getting people to ignore others, so I'm a little doubtful you don't have anyone on ignore. (I've also been told by multiple moderators that you rarely respond when they attempt to contact you.) If you don't have anyone on ignore, then you may simply have missed the mod's PMs. I'll double check to make sure the mod did indeed PM you, and if not, will make sure that they do so in the future.

Regarding this:
>This constant bullying and harassment from staff is indication why so many players have left this game.
I'd counter with: this constant bullying and harassment from people like yourself is an indication as to why some players have left this game. You're unquestionably a bully. Which makes it all the more confusing that you're attempting to paint this as staff somehow bullying you. I think all things considered staff have been fairly patient with you.

If you feel that others are not being treated as harshly for the same kinds of issues, please report them, and if you like, compile the results of the moderation actions (or lack thereof).

Sorry if you weren't clear? You sent me 4 replies to my personal email without signing them. That's intentionally rude. Of course you wouldn't own up to it, you're a snake.
You assume a lot of things apparently. Just like this made up story about me in a cycle. You enjoy this profile you have 'made up' about me. Never mind that the facts aren't all there or correct. You enjoy the tyranny of a single prejudice which you manipulate against me. Your staff put banc against me, only to have to be removed because of error and that staffer was fired. But I am still effected by your prejudice with a 12 hour ban from that. A ban that was not charged of racism. This is the misogyny. In the past I reported sexual abuse and was told to ignore them. They created hundreds of new aliases to continue the abuse I report them, staff does nothing. I take it upon myself to speak out against the bullies and abusers and now suddenly I am the biggest and worst most powerful troll in the game. I play pub and I talk back to jerks who attack me. This is what you're fighting about. I'll call them a faggot, gay, useless male, blah blah blah. Wow those are really big words.
I guess I am your God, you choose me to have this power when you choose to prejudice against me.

[Rab]

oh fuck off back to Twitter

[Jessup]

What happened fem? I don't see the situation that occured in this post but only the actions taken. What was context before this thread that has been causing an issue for you with staff?

Are you the player "Fem." too? I'm sort of confused who you are and what this is about.

[Lrim's Turtle]

Sorry if you weren't clear? You sent me 4 replies to my personal email without signing them. That's intentionally rude. Of course you wouldn't own up to it, you're a snake.
You assume a lot of things apparently. Just like this made up story about me in a cycle. You enjoy this profile you have 'made up' about me. Never mind that the facts aren't all there or correct. You enjoy the tyranny of a single prejudice which you manipulate against me. Your staff put banc against me, only to have to be removed because of error and that staffer was fired. But I am still effected by your prejudice with a 12 hour ban from that. A ban that was not charged of racism. This is the misogyny. In the past I reported sexual abuse and was told to ignore them. They created hundreds of new aliases to continue the abuse I report them, staff does nothing. I take it upon myself to speak out against the bullies and abusers and now suddenly I am the biggest and worst most powerful troll in the game. I play pub and I talk back to jerks who attack me. This is what you're fighting about. I'll call them a faggot, gay, useless male, blah blah blah. Wow those are really big words.
I guess I am your God, you choose me to have this power when you choose to prejudice against me.

I think you have a secret crush on qan

[Falconeer]

Hi, sorry if it wasn't clear before, but that was me. I was under the impression you were aware of that.

Sorry you didn't receive a reply you were happy with. Currently you seem to be moving in a cycle where you engage in awful behavior and then post to forums to let everyone know how unfairly you've been treated when you're punished for it.

Not really sure how this fits into a framework of misogyny. You've lately developed a talent for being viciously abusive to others, and using race, gender and sexual preference to belittle others. In other words, you seem to have nurtured a real dedication to treating people poorly. Our mod staff has responded to it accordingly.

Recently you claimed to have started the trend of getting people to ignore others, so I'm a little doubtful you don't have anyone on ignore. (I've also been told by multiple moderators that you rarely respond when they attempt to contact you.) If you don't have anyone on ignore, then you may simply have missed the mod's PMs. I'll double check to make sure the mod did indeed PM you, and if not, will make sure that they do so in the future.

Regarding this:
>This constant bullying and harassment from staff is indication why so many players have left this game.
I'd counter with: this constant bullying and harassment from people like yourself is an indication as to why some players have left this game. You're unquestionably a bully. Which makes it all the more confusing that you're attempting to paint this as staff somehow bullying you. I think all things considered staff have been fairly patient with you.

If you feel that others are not being treated as harshly for the same kinds of issues, please report them, and if you like, compile the results of the moderation actions (or lack thereof).

Qan i'll have to gently disagree with one of your points here unless you can provide concrete evidence where a player said they stopped playing trench wars because Gypsi? (not sure who fem bot is) was a bully.

My view is that someone will more readily leave the game if they are banned/silenced (even when it's justified) and especially when it's not, than if someone is acting like a troll. Trolling doesn't necessarily make people quit playing, but abusive mods could make people quit a greater percentage of the time. That's why power that leads to actions is dangerous if abused, and at the end of the day text is text and i can ?ignore this person and continue enjoying the game - no reason to quit. It's a lot harder to ignore a silence or a ban.

But there are exceptions, if someone who is trolling aliases and harasses a player on multiple names, that is then a form of power abuse beyond text and can lead to people quitting. And of course there might be 1 in 100 people who quit from a troll rather than ?ignoring them... but that's more the exception to the rule. Generally i find those people get super triggered and probably aren't exactly balanced... like they have outbursts of anger etc.

Anyway, i understand where you're coming from, and the overall point you're making with the abusive behaviour. But if you acknowledge something seems like a vicious cycle that is not getting solved... maybe a different approach is necessary. I still don't believe additive punishments are helpful - if anything they add fuel to fight back more when the person already has issues with the zone and staff. We should be trying to fairly enforce the rules while simultaneously being friendly and making friends with trouble makers. People are less inclined to hate on you or the game when you want to be their friend, and when you are also being fair and stand for something they can at least understand. So in no way am I saying to ignore rules or not enforce them... but sort of hoping some people in charge reach out olive branches to people and try and develop some communication or foundation for friendship beyond subspace the game. If we get to know people then we're all apart of the same community... people act dumb online... but it's not necessarily the be all and end all of who they are...

[Rab]

Can we start banning people who keep changing names to evade ignore.txt ?

[Falconeer]

Can we start banning people who keep changing names to evade ignore.txt ?

There's not much that can be done about evading ignore.txt, other than you deciding to change names and hide who you are so the harassment stops. So bans might be necessary in the case of ?ignore evaders, but keep in mind it would have to be a netban. And there also needs to be a clear definition of what an ?ignore evade is. If I don't even know I'm ?ignored by you, and I change names every month for entirely different reasons unrelated to you and then talk in pub and you can see my text... then in my opinion that doesn't qualify as harassment or a true ?ignore evade... people still have a right to change names, if they feel like it. Like the other day I made the name Goldeneye, because I thought it was a neat name.

So basically I would say it has to have the condition of directly Pm'ing the person on a different name, after being told to "stop" with evidence of being told to stop in the form of screenshots... and would also have to be within a certain time frame, like one month? or whatever (someone has to decide the timeframe). And maybe include harassment like spam, or insults, basically it has to include a clear intention by the ?ignore evader to evade and to cause harm. So yeah extreme cases of harassment should be moderated.

If I'm not being spammed, or attacked in pms, and someone evaded my ?ignore within one month to say Hi, I wouldn't count that as harassment for example...

But whatever, it's just my view, i know someone might disagree.

[BIET]

Falconeer, although I agree with you on the point of talking to the person instead of going straight to bans/silences I can't agree with you on the point where you basically say you rather have players who don't disrupt the game leaving than the other way round. There are hardly any players who get banned/silenced for more than 1 once every 3 months. Also don't think attempts haven't been made to resolve the matters by talking to them first, but most of the time you are either ignored or getting a demand you can't fulfill. You can't realistically spend hours to try to talk to someone and to make them understand that what they are doing is upsetting others in some way, not with any amount of manpower or code.

[Falconeer]

BIET

Falconeer, although I agree with you on the point of talking to the person instead of going straight to bans/silences I can't agree with you on the point where you basically say you rather have players who don't disrupt the game leaving than the other way round. There are hardly any players who get banned/silenced for more than 1 once every 3 months. Also don't think attempts haven't been made to resolve the matters by talking to them first, but most of the time you are either ignored or getting a demand you can't fulfill. You can't realistically spend hours to try to talk to someone and to make them understand that what they are doing is upsetting others in some way, not with any amount of manpower or code.

Where did I say I want players who don't disrupt the game leaving? I'd rather no one left.

If someone *chooses* to leave the game of their own free will rather than take a minute to add someone to an ?ignore.txt then they would be the exception (it's not common). I've spent around 3 hours a week asking people why they stopped playing and I've never got an answer that was about a specific troll bothering someone and they refused to ?ignore so they quit. People usually just say they stopped playing because the game has no players.

If there was an abusive moderator, then someone would be left with zero options on how to deal with them. Like when Hoch was the owner of DSB and I got banned by him with a ban dispute email that went directly to him. So leaving the game is now less their choice. Anyway i'm just saying that people are more likely to leave from an abusive moderator than from a troll (unless that troll was ignore evading).

Maybe you're making a distinction between the two *types* of people who would be leaving. One would be a troll facing mod abuse? and the other would be an "innocent angel" facing text from a troll? Except i don't really draw these distinctions between people in the community. To me, 95% of people in subspace have trolled at one point, including many staffers. Mostly everyone here has been apart of being oppressive or abusive in some way... that's why the game has everyone on the defensive and i consider it a culture that has many things in it... including abuse.

So i try not to view people as better than or worse than the other, or to think of people in terms of groups that i can then look down on from some pedestal. If someone trolling leaves from moderator abuse, or someone not trolling leaves from a troll, it still comes down to a person/a human being leaving. And i think there were ways to prevent that and to get people engaging their energy in more positive ways.

Also i think moderator abuse might not just happen because someone is exclusively trolling, it's often happened simply when the moderator or person in charge really dislikes someone. As well you might be generalizing that all mods try to solve problems by being nice and engaging in conversation. This isn't the case, i have experience that verifies it's not the case at all, from my experience people can be very prejudice and write you off instantly.

[BIET]

I interpreted your stance on 'players leaving easier when staff abuse is involved' versus 'players leaving due to trolling' the wrong way. Your way of viewing it is not wrong, and the game would be a better place would more see it that way, but it still requires a willingness (to change) from both parties to achieve the desired result. Due to not having enough time, or just the nature of handling the 'less fun' stuff like trolling and racism, hasty, more biased decisions will be made.